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GT3RS PPF poor installation :(

Old 01-10-2019, 12:46 PM
  #16  
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You should document or be there whenever the current film is removed. If they did not use a pre-cut kit and did such a poor job on the install, I guarantee there is going to be a few razor cuts in the paint. You’d want to get pictures of them as evidence before the new film goes on and masks some of them.
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Old 01-10-2019, 03:45 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by RADONCulous View Post

1. If the film is removed from the car improperly can it damage the clear coat or the actual paint? I understand the flim needs to be heated prior. Any other steps?

2. I specifically told the shop NOT to place PPF on the headlights and they did. The install was done poorly so there is grit between the plastic headlight and the flim. As such, I want it redone as it looks like the brand new lights appear pitted due to the grit. What is the safest way of removing the film to prevent de-lamination.

3. How do I prove they even used Suntek Ultra like they claim? They said they would give me paperwork when I return but I'm not so sure I trust that.

Thanks.
1. Yes, if film is removed improperly it can remove clear coat with it. To the point that a few others have made, seek out a professional detailer (who is competent!) to remove the film with steam so you avoid any issues.
2. Same as above- the use of steam is the best way to remove film safely without damaging the surface underneath.
3. SunTek Ultra should have a hydrophobic top-coat, so it should bead water. Outside of that, there would be no way to determine if they actually used Ultra, besides their reputation.

Check out the video below of a brand new 991.2 Targa GTS that we received a few months ago. Its owner had also gone to a "good" shop, but as you will see, there is a HUGE difference between good and great...

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Old 01-10-2019, 04:51 PM
  #18  
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Speaking from a previous customers experience with a bad PPF job, I also suggest you have someone else remove the PPF whose qualified to do so and inspect for cut marks. When I hear bad PPF job and "custom cut" there are likely a few other surprises sadly waiting for you.
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Old 01-10-2019, 04:58 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by RADONCulous View Post
I had a local shop that works on our air cooled cars install PPF on a new to us 2016 GT3RS. The car is essentially brand new with 600 miles. I was given a competitive quote for PPF for the entire car so I went for it. Unfortunately, the install is quite poor with sand, hair, overhang, and creases in certain panels. They claim its Suntek Ultra and hence they had to custom cut to each panel. The fitment isn't exact although the car is covered. They did asinine things to make it look like the whole car is covered such as take off the spoiler and trim pieces (TOLD NOT TO), but left the headlights and taillights in place. I told them I'm extremely dissatisfied and they agreed to consider replacing certain panels. Overall, I'm concerned about the quality of their work as it all seems very rushed and disorganized. That being said, I want to protect my investment in the car and don't want any damage, but before I ask of any remediation I want to make sure they proceed in a competent manner:

1. If the film is removed from the car improperly can it damage the clear coat or the actual paint? I understand the flim needs to be heated prior. Any other steps?

2. I specifically told the shop NOT to place PPF on the headlights and they did. The install was done poorly so there is grit between the plastic headlight and the flim. As such, I want it redone as it looks like the brand new lights appear pitted due to the grit. What is the safest way of removing the film to prevent de-lamination.

3. How do I prove they even used Suntek Ultra like they claim? They said they would give me paperwork when I return but I'm not so sure I trust that.

Thanks.
1. Safe removal is practical and possible. The concern will be if they'll take the time to do so. I made the video below that describes the nuances and process of safe removal.

2. Unfortunate. The odds of the clear coat on the headlights lifting is minor, but as you likely know, also possible. Were the situation where you requested PPF on the headlights and the coating lifted, it's reasonable that you take accountability considering that it's a known concern (as long as the installer made you aware of this). But, they made the mistake of installing PPF over the headlights. I advise you request they remove the film and if it releases the clear coat, they can take ownership of the repair. The good news is that despite it being referred to as a "UV coating for headlights", it's clear coat and a good body shop can ultimately provide you with a more durable solution with a wet-sand and quality clear coat sprayed.

Alternatively, if you wish to keep it on now that it's on. Know that it will likely be more challenging for you to hold them accountable should it release when removing the PPF in the future. But again, the repair does not have to be wildly expensive even if you have to experience that.

3. You do not. This is where you must trust the people you're doing business with are honest. They may do PPF installations that you're not satisfied with (I am not taking sides, just making objective observations), but that does not mean they're dishonest. Someone that does incredible also does not intrinsically mean they they're not dishonest.

As Esoteric noted, Suntek PPF is hydrophobic. So it water sits flat on it, that's a pretty stinking good indicator that you do not have Suntek. But there are plenty of films that are hydrophobic and it's not rare that a shop may use a hydrophobic detail spray on a car once the PPF is installed. So again, it's not possible to know for a certainty purely by the film being hydrophobic.


This is a tough one. On one hand, honest mistakes happen. But on the other, there appears to be some pretty significant requests by you forgotten and possibly some pretty rough fit and finish. Most of our clients request our disassembly-style PPF wraps but we get some clients who request not a single thing be removed. In either case, it's vital to honor those requests. It's reasonable to request nothing be removed and to see that honored.

I'd have a heart to heart with the owner and express your concerns. There is not a 100% sure-fire tell-tale that they can recover but if he is able to instill confidence, let them address those concerns. You're already somewhat married to them by having them do the work and paying them. But if you get a bad vibe, it may be time to discuss an exit strategy with him to make you whole while not having to blow a ton of time in litigation.

If I saw the fit and finish in person I could easily say if you got an A, B, C or D-quality installer and if it was so far from quality that I would not trust them at all. I wish you the best.

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Old 01-10-2019, 06:54 PM
  #20  
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How much did you pay
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Old 01-10-2019, 07:06 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by tqevo View Post
How much did you pay
Not enough...
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Old 01-10-2019, 08:05 PM
  #22  
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You paid in advance???? why?
I would:
1. Have another shop to evaluate and write a report on the poor installation.
2. Take photos and document the problems.
3. If headlights are damaged in removal submit the bill to the first shop and tell them to submit an insurance claim.
4. Demand your money back. The job if that poor was worthless.
5. Hire an attorney to send letter. Likely will get a result. If not file in small claims division for refund.
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Old 01-10-2019, 08:30 PM
  #23  
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What was the CONTRACT ?
Was it written or verbal ?
While verbal contracts carry the same weight of written, the burden of proof is on you.
Always get everything in writing
And
NEVER give a deposit more than 10%, in fact the customer should need not give a deposit. The installer has a "mechanics lien" until you pay in full. FWIW, one of the BEST PPF installers in the Country wanted a 50% deposit up front, definitely a deal breaker.
Live and learn
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:26 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by 0to60 View Post
What was the CONTRACT ?
Was it written or verbal ?
While verbal contracts carry the same weight of written, the burden of proof is on you.
Always get everything in writing
And
NEVER give a deposit more than 10%, in fact the customer should need not give a deposit. The installer has a "mechanics lien" until you pay in full. FWIW, one of the BEST PPF installers in the Country wanted a 50% deposit up front, definitely a deal breaker.
Live and learn
I don't want to muddy the water of the subject at hand. But I have a policy in place that first time clients must place a 50% deposit and I would like to offer some insight from my side. A deposit is only required for me to schedule an appointment in advance and only for first time clients. For instance, if someone is taking a PEC delivery in the future and they want me to carve a block of time out in my schedule for what is typically an involved service, they must place that deposit for me to hold their spot. Some wish to pay me a deposit even before they have possible delivery dates and I refuse them until they have a definite date. The purpose of the deposit is to secure an appointment.

At the same time, if they are cool with just dropping a car off with me and being put last in line of priority at the time they leave it with me, zero deposit is necessary. At this moment, we have 1 Porsche project ($12,500) and a Ferrari project ($11,xxx) which dropped them off with absolutely no deposit as first time clients. I've had as much as $50,000 in new client projects who did not leave a deposit at my shop at once(not to mention what we had in non-deposit loyal client's projects at the time). We honestly do not need the money to float the business and I do not mean this to brag(not that $50,000 in work is worth bragging over). Just to say I take blocking time off my calendar for first time clients seriously.

We do not need deposit money to operate but a single missed appointment carries a huge cost for me that I can not stomach when staring at a backed up book. For me, a deposit from a first time client represents all parties having skin in the game until there is a standing rapport which each other can rely upon. As evidence, returning clients never place any deposit at all regardless of the project cost. (special ordering parts is another thing if something like custom wheels, exhaust, etc. which I do not personally need in my inventory)

I do not mean to sound curt about any of this, only to share the viewpoint of someone who requires a 50% deposit from first time clients wanting me to square away significant time on my calendar. I honestly wish I never had to insist upon a deposit but it is what it is. At the same time, I respect your viewing it as a deal breaker. Looking at it from a third person viewpoint I totally understand why someone may see that as a problem. It's not possible for me to say if you're referring to me or not but I hope my feedback at least helps shed light on the topic.

Kind regards,
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:33 PM
  #25  
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^ Fair- especially if you do not have a relationship w/ Client.

50% still ties you and Client together to make sure every one happy.
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:37 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Detailed Designs
I don't want to muddy the water of the subject at hand. But I have a policy in place that first time clients must place a 50% deposit and I would like to offer some insight from my side. A deposit is only required for me to schedule an appointment in advance and only for first time clients. For instance, if someone is taking a PEC delivery in the future and they want me to carve a block of time out in my schedule for what is typically an involved service, they must place that deposit for me to hold their spot. Some wish to pay me a deposit even before they have possible delivery dates and I refuse them until they have a definite date. The purpose of the deposit is to secure an appointment.

At the same time, if they are cool with just dropping a car off with me and being put last in line of priority at the time they leave it with me, zero deposit is necessary. At this moment, we have 1 Porsche project ($12,500) and a Ferrari project ($11,xxx) which dropped them off with absolutely no deposit as first time clients. I've had as much as $50,000 in new client projects who did not leave a deposit at my shop at once(not to mention what we had in non-deposit loyal client's projects at the time). We honestly do not need the money to float the business and I do not mean this to brag(not that $50,000 in work is worth bragging over). Just to say I take blocking time off my calendar for first time clients seriously.

We do not need deposit money to operate but a single missed appointment carries a huge cost for me that I can not stomach when staring at a backed up book. For me, a deposit from a first time client represents all parties having skin in the game until there is a standing rapport which each other can rely upon. As evidence, returning clients never place any deposit at all regardless of the project cost. (special ordering parts is another thing if something like custom wheels, exhaust, etc. which I do not personally need in my inventory)

I do not mean to sound curt about any of this, only to share the viewpoint of someone who requires a 50% deposit from first time clients wanting me to square away significant time on my calendar. I honestly wish I never had to insist upon a deposit but it is what it is. At the same time, I respect your viewing it as a deal breaker. Looking at it from a third person viewpoint I totally understand why someone may see that as a problem. It's not possible for me to say if you're referring to me or not but I hope my feedback at least helps shed light on the topic.

Kind regards,
I wasn't referring to you, he's one of the best in the industry
Why stop at 50% deposit ?
Why not 75%
Why not 99%
Lol
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:40 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Jimmy-D View Post
^ Fair- especially if you do not have a relationship w/ Client.

50% still ties you and Client together to make sure every one happy.
You are 100% right. But I know something they don't yet. I know how far I will go to make my people happy. When someone sends me a deposit they are, in effect, telling me how serious they are about their car and having things done a certain way. It's a symbiotic process of commitment from both parties. Once we've completed a project and they come back, their word is gold to me and I get to give the complete experience sans a deposit.
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:50 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by 0to60 View Post
I wasn't referring to you, he's one of the best in the industry
Why stop at 50% deposit ?
Why not 75%
Why not 99%
Lol
I saw you said that and that's why I was not going to presume you were talking about me. That'd be pretty pompous wouldn't it? I am a long ways from being a great installer myself but I am definitely working hard to be that one day! I was only speaking of the topic of deposits and why someone may require them.

You do make a good point and I can't speak for anyone else. I suppose, for me, I selected 50% because the purpose is to show a commensurate commitment that I am making. Not to extract an arbitrary sum from someone. At any rate, the market will likely dictate what it wants and will bear. Be it 50%, 99% or something else. But hey, I will drop it as it's off-topic. Just meant to share some feedback from this side of the relationship.
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:56 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Detailed Designs View Post
You are 100% right. But I know something they don't yet. I know how far I will go to make my people happy. When someone sends me a deposit they are, in effect, telling me how serious they are about their car and having things done a certain way. It's a symbiotic process of commitment from both parties. Once we've completed a project and they come back, their word is gold to me and I get to give the complete experience sans a deposit.
You do a great job- If I lived down South, in that area, we would be doing business

Up here in Chicago my guys are Jason and Greg at Chicago Auto Pros. Another great outfit

They speak highly of you
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Old 01-10-2019, 11:02 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Detailed Designs
I saw you said that and that's why I was not going to presume you were talking about me. That'd be pretty pompous wouldn't it? I am a long ways from being a great installer myself but I am definitely working hard to be that one day! I was only speaking of the topic of deposits and why someone may require them.

You do make a good point and I can't speak for anyone else. I suppose, for me, I selected 50% because the purpose is to show a commensurate commitment that I am making. Not to extract an arbitrary sum from someone. At any rate, the market will likely dictate what it wants and will bear. Be it 50%, 99% or something else. But hey, I will drop it as it's off-topic. Just meant to share some feedback from this side of the relationship.
I once asked my installer why they do not take a deposit. He replied "I have enough business on my calendar should anyone cancel"
I think if you are going to take a 50% deposit then why not use an escrow service ?
What happens if I give you a 50% deposit and say: you pass away or go out of business. Getting a deposit back would be a nightmare.
Other ways to protect your interest, maybe getting a commission number, build dates from the dealership direct, of course with consent of the client.
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