Chris Harris: The last NA engine thing might be over
01-06-2019, 02:40 PM
#61
Race Director
So true. Also, so many different driving experiences are available past, present and in the future. I personally think any purchases i make moving forward will be from past generations (458, e46 M3, 964 Turbo, 1969 Z/28, etc.). Enough variety exists already to pick whatever checks the right boxes. No need to really look for something brand new.
01-06-2019, 02:58 PM
#62
So true. Also, so many different driving experiences are available past, present and in the future. I personally think any purchases i make moving forward will be from past generations (458, e46 M3, 964 Turbo, 1969 Z/28, etc.). Enough variety exists already to pick whatever checks the right boxes. No need to really look for something brand new.
01-06-2019, 03:06 PM
#63
Remind me again, which car won both Le Mans in GTE and the Nurburgring 24 last year? I seem to recall it being a NA one and a Porsche to boot.... It's not exactly struggling to remain competitive given those kinds of results I'd have thought. If BoP didn't exist - yes it would be an issue but given it does, well....
01-06-2019, 03:09 PM
#64
Rennlist Member
drive a 675 or 600 in anger...they finally got that "extra" feeling to them vs a lot of the turbo'd cars that you're right, can lose that part of the plot (like the 720, 488 etc etc).
01-06-2019, 03:16 PM
#65
For me it depends on the car. 2RS and 488 Pista look pretty exciting. And though I prefer NA, I can't say that I'd have ever turned down a Ferrari F40. It depends on the complete package. None of the McLarens do anything for me. But then nor do any of the Lambos, and they're not turbos. So it's more than just the engine, it's the entire car.
01-06-2019, 03:21 PM
#66
01-06-2019, 03:40 PM
#67
I've always preferred NA but with the improvements to turbos it's clear at this point that they have a huge advantage in performance over NA. Even looking at IMSA GT racing...Ferrari, Ford, and BMW have already switched to turbos, Corvette likely is doing the same with the C8R. Porsche is going to have no choice but to move to a turbo engine (or hybrid) for racing in order to remain competitive. So NA is really for people who just want higher revs and more sound. Yes, turbo lag can be an issue and the immediacy of throttle response - and linearity of throttle response, which has always been my biggest concern - can be an issue, but it's gotten so much better that I'm not sure how much that matters anymore. Even as far as revs go, that to me is really about sound. If my engine revs to 10,000 RPM but there were no sound to go along with it, would I care about the revs at that point? Probably not. Which means I think for me it really comes down to sound. Turbo cars are getting better, the 488 Pista doesn't sound bad. GT2 RS doesn't sound bad either, though I want to hear it in person. If the manufacturers can get turbo engines to sound better, maybe a lot of the issues people have with them will go away.
01-06-2019, 03:56 PM
#68
Haven't most switched because their homologation road cars are all turbo (for emissions control/efficiency ie non racing related reasons)? If BoP does it's job properly I still struggle to understand why a NA engine necessarily is going to not be competitive tbh. That's what it exists for - to ensure the cars are competitive.
01-06-2019, 04:46 PM
#69
Haven't most switched because their homologation road cars are all turbo (for emissions control/efficiency ie non racing related reasons)? If BoP does it's job properly I still struggle to understand why a NA engine necessarily is going to not be competitive tbh. That's what it exists for - to ensure the cars are competitive.
Forgot to add...I still wonder if the GT2RS CS and 935 is a way for Porsche to start testing the waters with a new turbo-based race car.
01-06-2019, 04:46 PM
#70
Rennlist Member
The response from the 488 engine is really great I must admit. I wonder what engine the 488 replacement will have? Will it be the Pista engine or a turbo with hybrid setup?
01-06-2019, 05:06 PM
#71
RL Community Team
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01-06-2019, 05:21 PM
#72
Rennlist Member
CH has to suck up to Ferrari after being blacklisted by them for years. Plus he knows where the wind is blowing, and that there will be no more new NA cars coming so he better start upselling the turbos. He’s not a moron. Repeating that NA is better while testing the newest turbo would get old fast and no one will invite such a buzzkill to new car tests anymore. I don’t believe a word he’s saying in that video.
No matter how good a turbo is, it will never match a NA engine while throttle-steering mid-turn at the limit of adhesion. Sure, you could always point and shoot a turbo and be faster, but why would anyone want that? And I need 700hp on backroads like I need a bullet to my head. This HP race as turbo cars get fatter is completely unappealing to me. I’ll take the 2.7L NA base boxster for $35k instead, thanks.
No matter how good a turbo is, it will never match a NA engine while throttle-steering mid-turn at the limit of adhesion. Sure, you could always point and shoot a turbo and be faster, but why would anyone want that? And I need 700hp on backroads like I need a bullet to my head. This HP race as turbo cars get fatter is completely unappealing to me. I’ll take the 2.7L NA base boxster for $35k instead, thanks.
01-06-2019, 05:44 PM
#73
Rennlist Member
I like big torque for street driving. I’ve no idea what my DD redlines at.
It burbles V8 sounds And that’s what I want in my DD performance wise.
My 6.9L relic is NA. and slow but it’s fun. Sounds fun, hangs on the throttle ...
350lb torque spinning skinny tires In a 40 year old car. Fun.
On track the turbo’s are faster, but NA is easier and more fun to drive and wails away, fun stuff.
On track, I want a good feeling, good sounding car that performs consistently.
Tires are already going off fast this side of slicks and upgraded the rotors to ST ceramics in order to keep a nice hard pedal for an entire session.
I’ve come to the point where I wouldn’t have heat soak of the engine and worsen tires and brakes going off to go faster.
I really don’t want to go any faster on the straights. 150/160 is really enough for my talent, I don’t need to go into T17 at Sebring at 170 or T10 at Road ATL at 180.
Its not free either, fuel, tires and brakes will go even faster.
Faster yes, but better, no.
Electric TQ assisted NA, yes, better if they start making them
light enough.
It burbles V8 sounds And that’s what I want in my DD performance wise.
My 6.9L relic is NA. and slow but it’s fun. Sounds fun, hangs on the throttle ...
350lb torque spinning skinny tires In a 40 year old car. Fun.
On track the turbo’s are faster, but NA is easier and more fun to drive and wails away, fun stuff.
On track, I want a good feeling, good sounding car that performs consistently.
Tires are already going off fast this side of slicks and upgraded the rotors to ST ceramics in order to keep a nice hard pedal for an entire session.
I’ve come to the point where I wouldn’t have heat soak of the engine and worsen tires and brakes going off to go faster.
I really don’t want to go any faster on the straights. 150/160 is really enough for my talent, I don’t need to go into T17 at Sebring at 170 or T10 at Road ATL at 180.
Its not free either, fuel, tires and brakes will go even faster.
Faster yes, but better, no.
Electric TQ assisted NA, yes, better if they start making them
light enough.
01-06-2019, 05:58 PM
#74
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Define Turbo. Porsche has already said top of the line Taycan EV will be called Turbo.....
http://www.thedrive.com/tech/25664/w...e-called-turbo
http://www.thedrive.com/tech/25664/w...e-called-turbo