Chris Harris: The last NA engine thing might be over
01-05-2019, 11:34 PM
#46
01-05-2019, 11:37 PM
#47
Race Director
01-05-2019, 11:52 PM
#48
Rennlist Member
Superchargers don't make as much power as turbos and also get lower fuel economy. Their advantage over turbos is better throttle response. However, that's about to change with e-turbos coming. Expect e-turbos to show up in 2 years or so and turbo lag will be nearly extinct.
cheers!
01-06-2019, 12:12 AM
#49
NA's time will eventually end, and the successor will no doubt be "better" objectively. Whatever form that takes, it will be faster, better response, etc. However, NA powered vehicles will have their place in automotive history, and they will be cherished even though they have been "bettered".
01-06-2019, 01:29 AM
#50
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
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too focus on PDK vs stick. vs turbo vs hybrid vs NA.
a car has to be evaluated in a package.
991GT2RS turbo doesn't drive like the turbo or yore. and it SOUNDS like NA.
totally agree
for some yes
I went from stick to pdk and love it, then to air-cooled 150 hp old tin cans. sometimes I think more fun than my 4.0
I love you
a car has to be evaluated in a package.
991GT2RS turbo doesn't drive like the turbo or yore. and it SOUNDS like NA.
I saw this, and realised my experience in owning a 488 and GT2RS is the opposite. Both great engines, very little lag and approaching responsiveness of an NA.
And in being so good, actually reinforce that they will never be able to match the best n/a.
I think everything going turbo is helping me lose my mojo for new cars. (Amongst lots of other factors)
In fact, I think I prefer my turbos to be old school with massive lag and hard to keep on boost! At least then they had their own character, instead of trying to be something they’ll always be second rate at.
(and hybrids are too heavy...)
And in being so good, actually reinforce that they will never be able to match the best n/a.
I think everything going turbo is helping me lose my mojo for new cars. (Amongst lots of other factors)
In fact, I think I prefer my turbos to be old school with massive lag and hard to keep on boost! At least then they had their own character, instead of trying to be something they’ll always be second rate at.
(and hybrids are too heavy...)
I went from stick to pdk and love it, then to air-cooled 150 hp old tin cans. sometimes I think more fun than my 4.0
01-06-2019, 01:38 AM
#51
I’m staying put with my Touring; GT appetite satiated.
01-06-2019, 03:49 AM
#52
Race Car
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What a news!
Chris Harris: The last NA engine thing might be over for the journalists
otherwise how they could still get paid by auto industry going for turbo cheap HPs?
Chris Harris: The last NA engine thing might be over for the journalists
otherwise how they could still get paid by auto industry going for turbo cheap HPs?
01-06-2019, 07:19 AM
#53
Rennlist Member
What a gorgeous stormtrooper
Forza!
Superchargers output constant boost, a real plus
Forza!
Superchargers don't make as much power as turbos and also get lower fuel economy. Their advantage over turbos is better throttle response. However, that's about to change with e-turbos coming. Expect e-turbos to show up in 2 years or so and turbo lag will be nearly extinct.
01-06-2019, 11:48 AM
#54
01-06-2019, 12:36 PM
#55
Burning Brakes
ch is correct that there will come a day when no one misses na engines anymore. but that day is not here yet despite all the turbo advances in recent years. turbos will need to sound much better and rev much higher before they get to the top of the exotic car pyramid.
01-06-2019, 01:30 PM
#56
Rennlist Member
After spending time in the 600lt...I don't have a need for newer high performance cars that are NA for the sake of being NA only...granted I'm still a sound guy so they do need to sound good, but it seems companies have managed to do that pretty well.
01-06-2019, 01:55 PM
#57
I've always preferred NA but with the improvements to turbos it's clear at this point that they have a huge advantage in performance over NA. Even looking at IMSA GT racing...Ferrari, Ford, and BMW have already switched to turbos, Corvette likely is doing the same with the C8R. Porsche is going to have no choice but to move to a turbo engine (or hybrid) for racing in order to remain competitive. So NA is really for people who just want higher revs and more sound. Yes, turbo lag can be an issue and the immediacy of throttle response - and linearity of throttle response, which has always been my biggest concern - can be an issue, but it's gotten so much better that I'm not sure how much that matters anymore. Even as far as revs go, that to me is really about sound. If my engine revs to 10,000 RPM but there were no sound to go along with it, would I care about the revs at that point? Probably not. Which means I think for me it really comes down to sound. Turbo cars are getting better, the 488 Pista doesn't sound bad. GT2 RS doesn't sound bad either, though I want to hear it in person. If the manufacturers can get turbo engines to sound better, maybe a lot of the issues people have with them will go away.
01-06-2019, 02:27 PM
#58
I've always preferred NA but with the improvements to turbos it's clear at this point that they have a huge advantage in performance over NA. Even looking at IMSA GT racing...Ferrari, Ford, and BMW have already switched to turbos, Corvette likely is doing the same with the C8R. Porsche is going to have no choice but to move to a turbo engine (or hybrid) for racing in order to remain competitive. .
01-06-2019, 02:34 PM
#60
Guess it all comes down to your reason for buying a car in the first place. If it's purely lap times that interest you, then turbo all the way. In which case, why are you hanging out in the GT3 section, shouldn't you be in the 911 Turbo section? A new 911 Turbo almost always runs circles around it's NA GT3 brother. If you're buying a car due to the emotion and passion that it evokes, then generally speaking the NA is the way to go. It creates a far nicer sound, revs nice and high in a dramatic way, delivers the power in a very nice and predictable manner, and evokes memories of wonderful NA engines of the past.
Lap times or emotion?
For me, it's about emotion. I'm not a pro driver. Never have been, never will be. I don't care about lap time, I care about how I feel before, during, and after the drive. I like the excitement and passion from the drive. In which case, for me, NA will always be better. And I don't give a $@&!# what CH says, I buy what makes me happy, not what makes CH happy.
Lap times or emotion?
For me, it's about emotion. I'm not a pro driver. Never have been, never will be. I don't care about lap time, I care about how I feel before, during, and after the drive. I like the excitement and passion from the drive. In which case, for me, NA will always be better. And I don't give a $@&!# what CH says, I buy what makes me happy, not what makes CH happy.