Center locks again - torque wrench vs adapter
#1
Advanced
Thread Starter
Center locks again - torque wrench vs adapter
So, a 3/4" breaker bar is $21 from HF (rated at 750 ft lbs); a cheater pipe to make it longer is maybe $10. Add this device for $68, and you have less than $100 in a setup to remove and retorque center locks:
Why would you NOT do this, versus the $410 Precision Instruments kit? Thanks.
Why would you NOT do this, versus the $410 Precision Instruments kit? Thanks.
Popular Reply
02-16-2020, 12:49 AM
Rennlist Member
Hi all,
So to summarize here are your options for CL wheels:
1) Take it to the dealer
2) Precision Instruments wrench with the breaker bar combo
4) Neiko 03715B Torque multiplier (3:1 ratio) - $220 plus some other tools listed below.
For reference, I have a 991.1 GT3 . I've been using the Precision Instruments wrench.
All options have their pros and cons.
Option 1 - Dealer
Pros - you don't have to do it
Cons - cost, time/inconvenience
Option 2 - PI wrench
Pros - you can do it in your garage, inexpensive, tried and true by Rennlisters
Cons - big, heavy, bulky, long wrench can be tough if you have a small garage, portable but big and bulky to transport in a small car.
Option 3 - Renntorq CL tool
Pros - compact, appears easy to use, less strain on your body!
Cons - cost $$$, I worry about the force on the wheel with the reaction arm - either scratching the wheel or weakening it
Option 4 - Neiko torque multiplier
Pros - cost - probably cheapest of these options, compact and less bulky than the PI wrench, less strain on your body (but more than the Renntorq tool since multiplier is only 3:1 instead of 4.73:1)
The tools needed for the Neiko torque multiplier:
1) Neiko 03715B Torque multiplier
2) Torque wrench that can go at least up to 150 ft-lbs. I use this eTork wrench. $90
3) Neiko 20743A Digital Torque Adapter. I didn't know this existed.
4) Center Lock nut (you should have in your car)
The Neiko Torque multiplier claims a 6% frictional gear loss. I wanted to calibrate this with my setup by using the Neiko Digital Torque Adapter on the output of the multiplier on to the CL lug. The target torque on the lug should be 443 ft-lbs. So with a 6% frictional loss I calculated 443x1.06 = 469.6 ft-lbs. Divide that by 3 since the Neiko is a 3:1 multiplier = 156.5 ft-lbs on the input to the multiplier.
I connected the Neiko Digital Torque Adapter to the CL nut then connected that to the output of the Neiko multiplier then connected the eTork wrench to the input of the multiplier set at 156 ft-lbs. When I did that I got 468 ft-lbs on the Digital torque adapter. So it looks like there is pretty much no frictional gear loss. So I set the torque wrench down to 147 ft-lbs and redid the torque (after loosening the lug 1/4 turn) and got 434 ft-lbs on the digital torque adapter.
I confirmed the torque setting again by putting the Precision Instrument wrench set at 440 ft-lbs and torqued the CL lug down. It clicked right away and I did not feel the CL lug move so I know it's at least 440 ft-lbs which confirmed the digital torque adapter. The Neiko digital torque adapter supposedly had an error of 2%. I found pretty much no error.
One more thing, the reaction bar was too short to touch the ground as I suspected. So I put a 2x4 wood block on the floor for the bar to lean against. It dug a dent in the 2x4 but at least these are easily replaceable.
So total cost for this setup was $389.
1) Neiko torque multiplier - $220
2) Neiko Digital torque adapter - $79
3) Torque wrench - $90. You guys probably already have this. My wrench only went up to 150 ft-lbs and I wanted more range on the torque wrench and the eTork wrench has a range from 25-250 ft-lbs.
Cost is the same as the PI wrench for me but probably cheaper for you? If you trust my numbers then you probably won't need to get the digital torque adapter? I think you would only have to calibrate this once in a while? You may want to calibrate your torque multiplier and torque wrench anyways since the wrench and multiplier that I got may not be exactly what you get?
I think I'm going to go with option 4) - the Neiko multiplier setup.
I've attached some photos below of the setup.
Hope this helps you all.
The setup with everything attached. I plan on not using the Neiko digital torque adapter (the red thing) except once in a while to calibrate which should make it less bulky and stick out less.
So to summarize here are your options for CL wheels:
1) Take it to the dealer
2) Precision Instruments wrench with the breaker bar combo
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HDPJF38/?coliid=I2NB9HJJT772RR&colid=29KK7QIX14RWD&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
3) Renntorq Center Lock removal tool using their torque multiplier (4.73:1 ratio) - $22004) Neiko 03715B Torque multiplier (3:1 ratio) - $220 plus some other tools listed below.
For reference, I have a 991.1 GT3 . I've been using the Precision Instruments wrench.
All options have their pros and cons.
Option 1 - Dealer
Pros - you don't have to do it
Cons - cost, time/inconvenience
Option 2 - PI wrench
Pros - you can do it in your garage, inexpensive, tried and true by Rennlisters
Cons - big, heavy, bulky, long wrench can be tough if you have a small garage, portable but big and bulky to transport in a small car.
Option 3 - Renntorq CL tool
Pros - compact, appears easy to use, less strain on your body!
Cons - cost $$$, I worry about the force on the wheel with the reaction arm - either scratching the wheel or weakening it
Option 4 - Neiko torque multiplier
Pros - cost - probably cheapest of these options, compact and less bulky than the PI wrench, less strain on your body (but more than the Renntorq tool since multiplier is only 3:1 instead of 4.73:1)
The tools needed for the Neiko torque multiplier:
1) Neiko 03715B Torque multiplier
2) Torque wrench that can go at least up to 150 ft-lbs. I use this eTork wrench. $90
3) Neiko 20743A Digital Torque Adapter. I didn't know this existed.
4) Center Lock nut (you should have in your car)
The Neiko Torque multiplier claims a 6% frictional gear loss. I wanted to calibrate this with my setup by using the Neiko Digital Torque Adapter on the output of the multiplier on to the CL lug. The target torque on the lug should be 443 ft-lbs. So with a 6% frictional loss I calculated 443x1.06 = 469.6 ft-lbs. Divide that by 3 since the Neiko is a 3:1 multiplier = 156.5 ft-lbs on the input to the multiplier.
I connected the Neiko Digital Torque Adapter to the CL nut then connected that to the output of the Neiko multiplier then connected the eTork wrench to the input of the multiplier set at 156 ft-lbs. When I did that I got 468 ft-lbs on the Digital torque adapter. So it looks like there is pretty much no frictional gear loss. So I set the torque wrench down to 147 ft-lbs and redid the torque (after loosening the lug 1/4 turn) and got 434 ft-lbs on the digital torque adapter.
I confirmed the torque setting again by putting the Precision Instrument wrench set at 440 ft-lbs and torqued the CL lug down. It clicked right away and I did not feel the CL lug move so I know it's at least 440 ft-lbs which confirmed the digital torque adapter. The Neiko digital torque adapter supposedly had an error of 2%. I found pretty much no error.
One more thing, the reaction bar was too short to touch the ground as I suspected. So I put a 2x4 wood block on the floor for the bar to lean against. It dug a dent in the 2x4 but at least these are easily replaceable.
So total cost for this setup was $389.
1) Neiko torque multiplier - $220
2) Neiko Digital torque adapter - $79
3) Torque wrench - $90. You guys probably already have this. My wrench only went up to 150 ft-lbs and I wanted more range on the torque wrench and the eTork wrench has a range from 25-250 ft-lbs.
Cost is the same as the PI wrench for me but probably cheaper for you? If you trust my numbers then you probably won't need to get the digital torque adapter? I think you would only have to calibrate this once in a while? You may want to calibrate your torque multiplier and torque wrench anyways since the wrench and multiplier that I got may not be exactly what you get?
I think I'm going to go with option 4) - the Neiko multiplier setup.
I've attached some photos below of the setup.
Hope this helps you all.
The setup with everything attached. I plan on not using the Neiko digital torque adapter (the red thing) except once in a while to calibrate which should make it less bulky and stick out less.
#2
Rennlist Member
So, a 3/4" breaker bar is $21 from HF (rated at 750 ft lbs); a cheater pipe to make it longer is maybe $10. Add this device for $68, and you have less than $100 in a setup to remove and retorque center locks:
https://www.amazon.com/Neiko-20743A-...+torque+wrench
Why would you NOT do this, versus the $410 Precision Instruments kit? Thanks.
https://www.amazon.com/Neiko-20743A-...+torque+wrench
Why would you NOT do this, versus the $410 Precision Instruments kit? Thanks.
#3
Race Director
Never knew this existed.....very cool...anyone know more about this and if it would work?
#4
Advanced
Thread Starter
My master mechanic buddy says use a Torque Multiplier with your standard 1/2' torque wrench. These have a 3:1 or 4:1 gear reduction. The biggest issue would be the +/- accuracy will be multiplied as well, but if you invest in a good torque wrench that is calibrated then this is not much of an issue.
Still looking for experience with the adapter and now the multiplier. Thanks.
Still looking for experience with the adapter and now the multiplier. Thanks.
#5
Race Director
I have the Precision Instrumets torque wrench...it works and is accurate. This thing you posted might be better to travel with though.
#6
Rennlist Member
Without trying that setup about the only thing that might be more difficult (if you are doing it by yourself) is keeping the front wheels straight. The wrench will be further off the CL socket with the torque gauge in between and that will leverage lateral movements more while doing the fronts.
#7
Race Director
Without trying that setup about the only thing that might be more difficult (if you are doing it by yourself) is keeping the front wheels straight. The wrench will be further off the CL socket with the torque gauge in between and that will leverage lateral movements more while doing the fronts.
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#8
I use a Neiko ratchet head breaker bar with a 56" handle to break loose the CL nut. Neiko is not known for precision tools so would need to check the calibration on this device before using. As MDrums says it might be handy for travel emergency use.
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Captain_ (01-27-2021)
#9
Drifting
Also doesn't the length of the handle you use affect the torque accuracy? This thing might be calibrated for a specific length bar/handle. And if you use a shorter one or longer one it can throw off the precision.
#10
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
So, a 3/4" breaker bar is $21 from HF (rated at 750 ft lbs); a cheater pipe to make it longer is maybe $10. Add this device for $68, and you have less than $100 in a setup to remove and retorque center locks:
https://www.amazon.com/Neiko-20743A-...+torque+wrench
Why would you NOT do this, versus the $410 Precision Instruments kit? Thanks.
https://www.amazon.com/Neiko-20743A-...+torque+wrench
Why would you NOT do this, versus the $410 Precision Instruments kit? Thanks.
#11
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
No, the device only measures the twisting force between its input and output at top and bottom (probably solid state strain gauge inside). It cannot tell if you attach a 10ft pipe to a breaker bar or use a short ratchet. This will greatly affect how hard you'll have to push to achieve the 600 NM at the center-lock socket tool (that comes with the car), but the device should still signal when you reach the target torque in any case. Should work fine...
#12
So, a 3/4" breaker bar is $21 from HF (rated at 750 ft lbs); a cheater pipe to make it longer is maybe $10. Add this device for $68, and you have less than $100 in a setup to remove and retorque center locks:
https://www.amazon.com/Neiko-20743A-...+torque+wrench
Why would you NOT do this, versus the $410 Precision Instruments kit? Thanks.
https://www.amazon.com/Neiko-20743A-...+torque+wrench
Why would you NOT do this, versus the $410 Precision Instruments kit? Thanks.
#13
About 15 years ago I used a brand new HF 1/2" breaker bar to remove some heads. It broke in half. I know that their quality has improved but still will not trust one to break-free a 444 lbs/ft nut.
#14
Racer
I do have the Precision Instrument (PI), 3/4” Tq wrench/breaker bar combo, but I’d rather leave that at home. I may be able to use the PI breaker bar that comes with the combination kit and keep that with the car...not sure yet. (Update: nope, that won’t work)
On longer trips, having a peace of mind that I don’t have to rely on some yahoo to get my wheel off was worth the aprox $100.00 to have a temp kit. Destroying a wheel or worse yet, a hub by an inexperienced tech could cost $$$$$$.
Thanks to the OP for the recommendation!!!
https://m.harborfreight.com/3-4-quar...bar-98270.html
Last edited by John Belk; 01-01-2019 at 12:51 AM.