The “Unofficial” GT3RS Production Number Stats
12-31-2018, 12:41 AM
#61
Markets fluctuate and there were a lot of 2 cars produced in the last quarter that are now reachng dealers. Presently, the 2s are sellng for a much higher premium than the 3s. The 3 production will now ramp up and the 2 will ramp down. Let’s see what haooens. Btw, we like, I saw your car bf the delivery. Very nice. Enjoy in health.
12-31-2018, 09:09 AM
#62
Nordschleife Master
Not sure why you would say they unsellable. That is not true. I am aware of many dealers delivering cars throughout the last 30 days and was even outbid on a few by other buyers. I am also aware of many cars over the years that sat on showroom floors for a while until inventory was low and then seemingly overnight they were all gone. Many here make comments that imply this car is a loser. I am not sure how under any standard other than it does not sound like an NA car, too many people can have one, it does not look like it is ready to travel in space, or that in certain speed ranges other cars are faster, that could be true. The performance numbers are literally off the chart on a car that can be driven every day and on the track. I also remember the GT2s and 3s of previous gens released that sat unsellable at dealers, as well as the last unsellable Speedster that is now over sticker. That stinker sat around forever.
So you think my dealer is still sitting with 4 2RSs because of a “great” price? Lol. Do actually read what you write?
You were out bid on one? Really? A bidding war on a 2 RS? Wow. That’s news. What did it sell for? What was msrp? What was your high bid? Why don’t you own one now with the bushels of them available?
You don’t believe these cars are languishing on dealer floors? You apparently haven’t been looking.
The 3.8TT used is modified with some stronger components like crank to cope with the extra power and other Motorsport components related to cooling but it’s not a Motorsport derived engine. There is a difference.
Doesnt mean the 2RS isn’t epic. It is.
12-31-2018, 09:55 AM
#63
Drifting
Agree. 2RS uses off the shelf 3.8 TT. Granted they use upgraded components but no where near the development time and $ spent on the 4.0. Their profit margin on the 2RS is likely gargantuan. Piles of them sitting at dealers with $100k to $150k ADMs . My dealer has 4 he is sitting on looking for $125k over.
Dot2: great data! 👍Thanks. My bet is production ends 1st Q. Likely total around 1500 to 1600. Agree.
Pretty low production WW even at 1600.
12-31-2018, 11:35 AM
#64
The term “ unsellable” was used by others. Some dealers are keepng cars in inventory because of their expectations, but others are selling them and they are not sitting around. I see the listings from the same dealers on certain cars and perhaps their adms are too high right now. I am also aware of more dealers that do not post their available cars and postings from dealers of cars that were pre sold. From personal experience I am aware of cars that were available and now they are not. When I say bid, I was not referring to an auction, but an offer that was rejected in favor of another better offer. I prefer to keep the details private as I am still in the market. I do have an order in place to my spec at an adm which may or may not be appropriate at the time of delivery. However, I would release it for certain custom colors. My dealer does not care because they believe they will have no ussue selling it. In regard to the motor, the engine is modified more than you indicate. In addition, it has all of the attributes necessary to track all day and has proven itself under these conditions. If you want to buy anything street legal that is quicker or with more capable handling from Porsche it does not exist. There is a reason that the adm on a 2 is so much more than a 3. While I do love an NA engine, I have that covered with a V12 F car. I want the extra performance and torque down low. The P turbo engine has been refined for decades now and has always been the King and even more so without the lag. Yes, I read what I write, mostly. I am trying to have fun here.
12-31-2018, 01:10 PM
#65
Nordschleife Master
The term “ unsellable” was used by others. Some dealers are keepng cars in inventory because of their expectations, but others are selling them and they are not sitting around. I see the listings from the same dealers on certain cars and perhaps their adms are too high right now. I am also aware of more dealers that do not post their available cars and postings from dealers of cars that were pre sold. From personal experience I am aware of cars that were available and now they are not. When I say bid, I was not referring to an auction, but an offer that was rejected in favor of another better offer. I prefer to keep the details private as I am still in the market. I do have an order in place to my spec at an adm which may or may not be appropriate at the time of delivery. However, I would release it for certain custom colors. My dealer does not care because they believe they will have no ussue selling it. In regard to the motor, the engine is modified more than you indicate. In addition, it has all of the attributes necessary to track all day and has proven itself under these conditions. If you want to buy anything street legal that is quicker or with more capable handling from Porsche it does not exist. There is a reason that the adm on a 2 is so much more than a 3. While I do love an NA engine, I have that covered with a V12 F car. I want the extra performance and torque down low. The P turbo engine has been refined for decades now and has always been the King and even more so without the lag. Yes, I read what I write, mostly. I am trying to have fun here.
If you have a 2RS at MSRP on order I don't understand what your issue is and why you are shopping???? Have I missed something here?
There are a lot of 2RS sitting and sitting with $100K ADMs. My dealer has 4. Manhattan Motors has 3. There are bushels of them for sale with $100K+ ADMs. Clearly they are not fetching this number.
There will be about 400 less 2RS's than 3RS's at the end of the day based on our best data at this point. Subject to change of course as PAG holds the final say on production and they play cards close to the vest.
Yes, the ADM on the 2RS is more than the 3RS which is on average now around $30K to $50K depending on car and spec. However, it seems all ADMs are melting. Certainly people aren't paying the $100K ADM on the 2RS for sure it seems.
The ADM is more on the 2RS simply because of "HORSEPOWER". Most people have to have the most powerful and fastest so the car garners a higher ADM but when the fluff is brushed aside the performance difference depending on track is not huge especially on tighter courses and most testers and reviewers when asked in the end prefer the 3RS.
The 2RS is epic. No argument here.
The 3RS is epic. No one can dispute that.
They would both run in different classes anyway and would not be direct competitors.
Real world experience for those not blessed with the skill of Nick Tandy, Bamber, Pilet etc...have 3RS turning faster times at DE's with mere mortals behind the wheel. Why? Read Evo "Three Kings". Its all there. 3RS picked on top when compared to GT3 and 2RS.
I'll just leave these here.
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...t3-manual.html
and...
If you want a torque and hp monster for the street then the 2RS is your ticket.
Don't misunderstand I would love a GT2RS. Love it. I wouldn't give up my GT3RS for one though. I would add one at MSRP.
Truth is the GT3, GT3RS and GT2RS are all way to fast to tap their full capabilities on the street unless you like wearing orange and bunking with a guy named Bubba.
Also, could you please expound on the internal mods to the 3.8 TT for the 2RS. My understanding was that internally it was the crank. Full stop. There are exterior Motorsport components for sure as to cooling, suspension, ducting yes. If you can provide further info that would be great. Always willing to learn.
12-31-2018, 01:42 PM
#66
Drifting
Join Date: Aug 2015
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The term “ unsellable” was used by others. Some dealers are keepng cars in inventory because of their expectations, but others are selling them and they are not sitting around. I see the listings from the same dealers on certain cars and perhaps their adms are too high right now. I am also aware of more dealers that do not post their available cars and postings from dealers of cars that were pre sold. From personal experience I am aware of cars that were available and now they are not. When I say bid, I was not referring to an auction, but an offer that was rejected in favor of another better offer. I prefer to keep the details private as I am still in the market. I do have an order in place to my spec at an adm which may or may not be appropriate at the time of delivery. However, I would release it for certain custom colors. My dealer does not care because they believe they will have no ussue selling it. In regard to the motor, the engine is modified more than you indicate. In addition, it has all of the attributes necessary to track all day and has proven itself under these conditions. If you want to buy anything street legal that is quicker or with more capable handling from Porsche it does not exist. There is a reason that the adm on a 2 is so much more than a 3. While I do love an NA engine, I have that covered with a V12 F car. I want the extra performance and torque down low. The P turbo engine has been refined for decades now and has always been the King and even more so without the lag. Yes, I read what I write, mostly. I am trying to have fun here.
LoL.. hard to keep up with stories, yes?
12-31-2018, 02:11 PM
#67
2019 Speedster - 1,948 / 685
2019 GT3RS - 4,795 / 1,685
18/19 GT2RS - 3,627 / 1,275
18/19 GT3 - 9,580 / 3,370
2016 911R - 991 / 323
2016 GT3RS - 4,600 / 1,529
14-16 GT3 - 6,459 / 2,133
991 GT = ~32k WW est. / ~11 NA est
Last edited by Dot23RS; 12-31-2018 at 02:28 PM.
12-31-2018, 02:18 PM
#68
Waxer, I agree with your post on the many issues. In regard to the dealers that you mentioned. One of them I believe sold a PTS car within the last 30 days at a healthy ADM well over 100 if their representations are to be believed. I was surprised. I think the market was soft in December, but I did not experience that mentality at the dealers. My order is not at MSRP. There is an ADM and I wanted a custom color which I did not get. That is why I am still looking around. One of the unknowns is how many of the VIP cars will come to market. I am aware of a few that are quietly being marketed that are very nice and unique builds. If many come on at once, then it may effect the prices of dealer cars. If the ADMs at the dealers have dissipated at that point, then even the VIP owners will have an issue breaking even because they paid tax and are selling a car with less warranty. They have also covered the cost of insurance. While I think that all of the production numbers that are presented in these forum are not that many cars, there is a mentality that over 1000 produced kills the value long term. That may be true, but I don't think it should be bc I believe the market for these cars is larger than ever. In the end, I expect to lose money on every car that I purchase. I learned that a long time ago. The only cars that seem to do well are the limited Ferraris and some hypercars if they are not driven much. I drive everything that I buy without regard to how it effects resale. In general, I have experienced less depreciation with my Porsches and had a great time driving them everywhere.
12-31-2018, 02:28 PM
#69
Waxer, I agree with your post on the many issues. In regard to the dealers that you mentioned. One of them I believe sold a PTS car within the last 30 days at a healthy ADM well over 100 if their representations are to be believed. I was surprised. I think the market was soft in December, but I did not experience that mentality at the dealers. My order is not at MSRP. There is an ADM and I wanted a custom color which I did not get. That is why I am still looking around. One of the unknowns is how many of the VIP cars will come to market. I am aware of a few that are quietly being marketed that are very nice and unique builds. If many come on at once, then it may effect the prices of dealer cars. If the ADMs at the dealers have dissipated at that point, then even the VIP owners will have an issue breaking even because they paid tax and are selling a car with less warranty. They have also covered the cost of insurance. While I think that all of the production numbers that are presented in these forum are not that many cars, there is a mentality that over 1000 produced kills the value long term. That may be true, but I don't think it should be bc I believe the market for these cars is larger than ever. In the end, I expect to lose money on every car that I purchase. I learned that a long time ago. The only cars that seem to do well are the limited Ferraris and some hypercars if they are not driven much. I drive everything that I buy without regard to how it effects resale. In general, I have experienced less depreciation with my Porsches and had a great time driving them everywhere.
12-31-2018, 02:32 PM
#70
Drifting
I’m actually estimating ~11k 991 GT for NA. And ~32k WW. Works out to 1 in ~8 991’s being a GT varient. Like 997, ~50% of all GT cars are base GT3.
2019 Speedster - 1,948 / 685
2019 GT3RS - 4,795 / 1,685
18/19 GT2RS - 3,627 / 1,275
18/19 GT3 - 9,580 / 3,370
2016 911R - 991 / 323
2016 GT3RS - 4,600 / 1,529
14-16 GT3 - 6,459 / 2,133
991 GT = ~32k WW est. / ~11 NA est
I should have further clarified by referring to the 991.2 GT3 RS. Regardless, the key point is that Waxer was ‘agreeing’ with your data but then referring to the your NA production data as WW production data.
12-31-2018, 02:37 PM
#71
Amen. The kicker is the ADM on the depreciation side. I think the car is a nice at MSRP and less so with the ADM. I have agreed to pay one and believe that cost may be a throw away. I would not mind seeing a soft market whereby the dealers cannot charge the premium and hope that your predictions are accurate and that they save me money. There is definitely much less upside than downside.
12-31-2018, 02:40 PM
#72
12-31-2018, 02:44 PM
#73
estimating they build another ~200 2RS, 500 3RS, 700 Speedster and 400 base gt3. This will take through April to complete, bringing NA to ~11k 991 GT cars.