Is the 991 the last pure GT car?
12-28-2018, 04:54 PM
#61
GT3 player par excellence
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u must b young.
I take 991 and drive my friend on canyon. we smile and talk
in 997 they talk less
in 996 they barely smile
in my longhood they are VISIBLY nervous and seeking for handles and straps to hold on. in fact im
scared too ...
that’s pure. It took me 25 years tominderstsmd
that.
65SWB
clearly the young man knows more than just throwing a ball toward a dude with a bat
bery nice list
i’m working on it
CJ promised me to sell
me his 993gt2 at 250k. it’s a shifting common color silver. so slight discount is common
I would like to see u in a long hood. done get a $$$ S. get a POS like mine and park next to the latest RS.
I take 991 and drive my friend on canyon. we smile and talk
in 997 they talk less
in 996 they barely smile
in my longhood they are VISIBLY nervous and seeking for handles and straps to hold on. in fact im
scared too ...
that’s pure. It took me 25 years tominderstsmd
that.
65SWB
If you track your car- newer model is always faster.
If you fix your cars, older are always simpler.
Save more money to buy both.
Dream 5 911 only garage would be:
GT3RS under warranty coverage for traxxing
993 GT2 / 993RS
997 4.0RS
R/Touring/Speedster/ Longhood of some kind
G body or 964 body car in funky color
If you fix your cars, older are always simpler.
Save more money to buy both.
Dream 5 911 only garage would be:
GT3RS under warranty coverage for traxxing
993 GT2 / 993RS
997 4.0RS
R/Touring/Speedster/ Longhood of some kind
G body or 964 body car in funky color
i’m working on it
CJ promised me to sell
me his 993gt2 at 250k. it’s a shifting common color silver. so slight discount is common
I would like to see u in a long hood. done get a $$$ S. get a POS like mine and park next to the latest RS.
12-28-2018, 05:43 PM
#63
SJW, a Carin' kinda guy
Rennlist Member
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I have driven a lot of old junk (my term), the only newish car that feels “pure” like some of the old junk (xk120, 250 GTE) is the lotus Elise/Exige. No Porsche from the 911 era I have driven feels pure. Long hood. 993. But I have not driven the very special ones (73RS, 993 GT2 etc.). My neighbor has a ~1700lbs 912 with a fresh rebuild hopped up engine. Need to trade a drive in the GT3 once spring comes and break in is done to see. Waiting until I get to rev to 9k to pass judgment on the purity of the 991.2 GT3.
12-28-2018, 06:13 PM
#64
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
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I have driven a lot of old junk (my term), the only newish car that feels “pure” like some of the old junk (xk120, 250 GTE) is the lotus Elise/Exige. No Porsche from the 911 era I have driven feels pure. Long hood. 993. But I have not driven the very special ones (73RS, 993 GT2 etc.). My neighbor has a ~1700lbs 912 with a fresh rebuild hopped up engine. Need to trade a drive in the GT3 once spring comes and break in is done to see. Waiting until I get to rev to 9k to pass judgment on the purity of the 991.2 GT3.
and exige. they weren’t cars. they weee like cloth u wore.
12-28-2018, 06:31 PM
#66
12-28-2018, 09:53 PM
#67
Nordschleife Master
OP,’this is an impossible question to answer. We all have our idea of what a GT car is and what makes it pure.
Bias ply tires or radial?
NA or TT or Supercharged?
wheels held on by 5 or 6 bolts or a center lock?
worm & sector steering or rack and pinion?
non assisted steering or hydraulic or electric?
drive by wire or real mechanical connections to throttle?
MT or auto?
synchro trans or non synchro?
4sp, 5 spd or 6 spd?
lap belts or 3 point?
large diameter wooden steering wheel or non wood smaller size?
analoge dials or digital?
ABS or no?
nannies with shut off ability or none period?
2 wheel drive or awd like the Perf?
carbs or EFI?
AC or no AC?
Rear seats or no?
simple leather or cloth seats or full race type buckets?
Struts or coil overs? Maybe even torsion bars ala 289 Cobra.
Im sure I’ve missed things but you get the point
Bias ply tires or radial?
NA or TT or Supercharged?
wheels held on by 5 or 6 bolts or a center lock?
worm & sector steering or rack and pinion?
non assisted steering or hydraulic or electric?
drive by wire or real mechanical connections to throttle?
MT or auto?
synchro trans or non synchro?
4sp, 5 spd or 6 spd?
lap belts or 3 point?
large diameter wooden steering wheel or non wood smaller size?
analoge dials or digital?
ABS or no?
nannies with shut off ability or none period?
2 wheel drive or awd like the Perf?
carbs or EFI?
AC or no AC?
Rear seats or no?
simple leather or cloth seats or full race type buckets?
Struts or coil overs? Maybe even torsion bars ala 289 Cobra.
Im sure I’ve missed things but you get the point
12-28-2018, 10:36 PM
#68
The 991GTs have nothing pure about them, it's actually from a Porsche driver point of view a monstruosity 
!
It's the 1st one that does almost everything better than the human at the wheel. Really if you embrace the tech, there is just steering left (for how long... they will take that away from us to you'll see).
With the exception of ABS may be, all the previous generations improvements were like improvement of tools for the driver to do his track thing. Just better tools. The man at the wheel was still making all the decisions.
The 991GT is a fantastic car, fast as hell but it dumbs you down as a driver.
Most won't care, will not even think about it, will just focus on performance and winning the DE (I definitly tend to think like that !) but it's a fascinating developement !
!It's the 1st one that does almost everything better than the human at the wheel. Really if you embrace the tech, there is just steering left (for how long... they will take that away from us to you'll see).
With the exception of ABS may be, all the previous generations improvements were like improvement of tools for the driver to do his track thing. Just better tools. The man at the wheel was still making all the decisions.
The 991GT is a fantastic car, fast as hell but it dumbs you down as a driver.
Most won't care, will not even think about it, will just focus on performance and winning the DE (I definitly tend to think like that !) but it's a fascinating developement !
12-28-2018, 11:14 PM
#69
Race Car
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: The way to hell is paved by good intentions “Wenn ich Purist höre...entsichere ich meinen Browning” "Myths are fuel for marketing (and nowadays for flippers too,,,)" time to time is not sufficient to be a saint, you must be also an Hero
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Get over the term purity
the meaning of the title is very clear,
Is the 992 the first deviation from the original 911 driver' car project philosophy?
as a "traditional" 911 customer i like innovation in the roots of tradition so nothing wrong in electronic systems as long as you can disable them,
i am also aware there are new markets and new customers that don t know nothing about a 911 neither able to understand the difference between a turbo-s and a gt3
Just look what a great product was 991 (lighter sexier and faster) in compare to the 997, but here we are
991 was needed to satisfy sophisticated drivers demand not to meet a status badge demand seeking a shiny videogame interior to show to their friends how cool they are
So is it the 992 still a 911 driver' car or just a (missed) 991 refinement on the road of blinking an eye to new customers ( not able to drive them) and in the light of crazy regulations (for small volume cars) combined with a missed design?
Yes and for these reasons i keep my 991
not because is more "pure" but because is not a mediocre car in terms of innovation design engine
Seriously my next Porsche jewel
will be, if any, a mini-918 (995 in 2025?) driver'car
-light
-innovation
-rear engine
-n.a. plus hybrid
-a sexy 911 design
-2 seaters + luggage
-small (i drive a suv for childrens)
the meaning of the title is very clear,
Is the 992 the first deviation from the original 911 driver' car project philosophy?
as a "traditional" 911 customer i like innovation in the roots of tradition so nothing wrong in electronic systems as long as you can disable them,
i am also aware there are new markets and new customers that don t know nothing about a 911 neither able to understand the difference between a turbo-s and a gt3
Just look what a great product was 991 (lighter sexier and faster) in compare to the 997, but here we are
991 was needed to satisfy sophisticated drivers demand not to meet a status badge demand seeking a shiny videogame interior to show to their friends how cool they are
So is it the 992 still a 911 driver' car or just a (missed) 991 refinement on the road of blinking an eye to new customers ( not able to drive them) and in the light of crazy regulations (for small volume cars) combined with a missed design?
Yes and for these reasons i keep my 991
not because is more "pure" but because is not a mediocre car in terms of innovation design engine
Seriously my next Porsche jewel
will be, if any, a mini-918 (995 in 2025?) driver'car
-light
-innovation
-rear engine
-n.a. plus hybrid
-a sexy 911 design
-2 seaters + luggage
-small (i drive a suv for childrens)
Last edited by fxz; 12-29-2018 at 04:44 AM.
12-28-2018, 11:15 PM
#70
Originally Posted by GrantG
Not sure about water cooled (though plenty reasons to consider 997), but my two 1973 911’s were miles better to drive than my 993.
12-28-2018, 11:34 PM
#71
Race Director
u must b young.
I take 991 and drive my friend on canyon. we smile and talk
in 997 they talk less
in 996 they barely smile
in my longhood they are VISIBLY nervous and seeking for handles and straps to hold on. in fact im
scared too ...
that’s pure. It took me 25 years tominderstsmd
that
12-29-2018, 03:05 PM
#72
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Not meant as a diss on 993 as much as a vote for the 73 911 S and RS. So much more emotional and tactile to drive than the much heavier and less inspiring 993. Granted, the 993 is much better than some other 911’s, but I find them over-rated compared to a really nice MFI longhood that is higher revving with much sharper throttle response (6 throttles instead of 1) and much better manual steering.
12-29-2018, 09:20 PM
#73
Rennlist Member
12-29-2018, 09:39 PM
#74
Race Director
It’s all really personal preference.....I like all these cars and enjoy Porsche making better and better versions as far as comfort and speed. I’d love to have an older one but can’t push a clutch to drive one with my prosthetic leg...so mute point for me...I’m enjoying the hell out of my 991 GT3!!!