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After running the Pennsylvania Hillclimb Series in the late 60s I did a Time Trial at Marlboro. First time on a real race track, got my SCCA license in 1968. Got to the SCCA Runoffs in 1973. The cars were much simpler and most did their own work. Slower and not as safe as modern cars but the principles of driving were about the same, no data and less attention to exact turn in points. No Power Steering, Power Brakes, ABS, or Nannies. You still had to drive the car near its limits. Haven't raced for decades but now have 190 days doing DEs in Instructor Run Group, still need to drive near near the cars limits to be fast. Here's a poor photo of me @ Bridgehampton in the 70s. Same number as today.
After running the Pennsylvania Hillclimb Series in the late 60s I did a Time Trial at Marlboro. First time on a real race track, got my SCCA license in 1968. Got to the SCCA Runoffs in 1973. The cars were much simpler and most did their own work. Slower and not as safe as modern cars but the principles of driving were about the same, no data and less attention to exact turn in points. No Power Steering, Power Brakes, ABS, or Nannies. You still had to drive the car near its limits. Haven't raced for decades but now have 190 days doing DEs in Instructor Run Group, still need to drive near near the cars limits to be fast. Here's a poor photo of me @ Bridgehampton in the 70s. Same number as today.
If we're talking about being a competitive race car driver at the top level, I agree that the capabilities of top athletes have generally increased across all sports over the decades, so we can probably conclude that the top drivers today are more capable than the top drivers from the old days.
Now if you're asking whether cars have become easier to drive, that's a different question, and it depends on whether you're talking about DE cars, Porsche race cars, open-wheel race cars, etc. I suspect that your typical excellent DE driver would struggle badly with a modern F1 car because of the G-forces, corner speeds, etc., but might do ok with an F1 car from the really old days. If you compare excellent pro racers from today versus the old days, they should all be able to get near the limit in both new and old race cars, but I agree with the comment that the drivers from the old days probably would have needed to improve their fitness to drive the new cars.
Skill is skill. Top drivers of the bygone era would be competitive in today’s modern race cars and vice versa. The qualities that make for a great driver (solid reflexes, smooth hands, ability to anticipate, fearlessness and the ability to ‘feel’ what the car is doing beneath them etc) transcend generations. The best drivers will always bring out the best of whatever machinery they are piloting (with the appropriate requisite seat time in the car, of course). What I will say is that today’s top drivers are better athletes (better physical condition) than their predecessors but their skills are likely comparable.
Interesting topic. I think a good driver is a good driver, regardless of era. To drive at the limit all the time is about feel, and some of that comes from natural ability and some from practice. That said, with less advanced cars you have less technology helping you....no downforce, no ABS, no traction control, etc., so driving at the limit and staying there is harder to do than with a more current car with a ton of downforce and electronics to help you out. I think the people who raced 30+ years ago probably had better feel for the limits in those cars and better ability to control them compared to a current driver. At the same time, current drivers have a better feel for driving high downforce cars with ABS, TC, etc., which the guys from 30+ years ago would have a hard time with. But in either case, if you took a great driver in his prime from 1970 and put him in a current car, after some practice time he'd become a great driver in that car. And if you put a great driver from today in car from 1970 and give him some practice time, he'll be a great driver in that car. I think the guys who are truly good can drive anything. I agree completely, though, that drivers currently are in better shape physically and have better training available. It would take the guys from 30+ years ago awhile to catch up with that. And I think dealing with all the settings, switches, *****, etc. in a current race car would add another level of complexity which guys 30 years ago wouldn't have had to deal with. I can't figure out how current F1 guys handle navigating through menus and options in the middle of an F1 race. I need to wait for a decent length straight just to make a brake bias adjustment
Skill is skill. Top drivers of the bygone era would be competitive in today’s modern race cars and vice versa. The qualities that make for a great driver (solid reflexes, smooth hands, ability to anticipate, fearlessness and the ability to ‘feel’ what the car is doing beneath them etc) transcend generations. The best drivers will always bring out the best of whatever machinery they are piloting (with the appropriate requisite seat time in the car, of course). What I will say is that today’s top drivers are better athletes (better physical condition) than their predecessors but their skills are likely comparable.
Had I known you were going to say what I said I wouldn't have bothered posting my response
I just watched Grand Prix Driver, which follows Mclaren and its drivers (mostly Stoffel Vandoorne) before and during the 2017 season. Amazing what drivers (and team) have to do to be competitive. It’s easy to dismiss Mclaren Stoffel’s results until you see the effort they put in.
This whole discussion is really interesting and imv the answer comes down to athletes continuously improving. However, another question that is really interesting is where the really difference lies between the merely good (e.g. Stoffel) and the awesome (e.g. Hamilton). In the same car there probably isn’t that much between them over a single lap, but one gets relegated to FormulaE whereas the other continues to win WDC.
Modern drivers train more and more effectively, so are better on average than the old guys.
So the guys that are at the top today are the kind of people that are up for training that hard, which is a slightly different type of person to the more skill-based characteristics of the past.
Note this doesn't mean they didn't used to train in the old days or that the current guys don't have skill. Just a shift.
i don't know. I'd love to see someone like Gilles Villeneuve drive a modern car. I think he would puke in the face of pretty much everybody. He wouldn't finish half the races but he'd win the other half.
Interesting. His conclusion is that improved athletic performance is due to technology, sport-specific body types and imagination. Better training did not make the top 3.
what I do know is that all the old timers in racing I know tell awesome stories of getting hammered the night before races and all sorts of cool fun stuff
i can’t ecen have a beer the night before a race
now maybe they they were just that good that it didn’t matter but it’s interesting to ponder
Yup. I think it was Mario Andretti who said "you only need six hours from bottle to throttle".
Really wish it would have been possible as he was a phenomenal driver. But I reckon if he stepped into a current F1 car with was then the accepted level of fitness, he would pass out from the g forces. I cannot think of any driver in those days that was hyper fit, whereas many of the drivers in top and even medium levels do very well in triathlon, marathons, etc. And the training these days goes well beyond fitness, dealing with mental strength, reaction speed, strategic thinking, etc.
yes of course all those old timers would have to prepare and condition a lot. In fact when the first big downforce wings came out at the beginning of the '80s, there was a race when an older driver needed to have his helmet tethered to the car because his neck was limp from the exertion, I can't remember who it was.
Another factor that makes me say the older ones were better: the ballz you need to go flat out when every third weekend someone dies or gets gravely injured in a fiery crash are much bigger than those you need with all the safety features.
12-08-2018, 08:37 PM
