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Paint issues at delivery

 
Old 12-07-2018, 02:33 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by ChicagoWhale View Post
Your detailer did that when he pulled out the light.

There is ZERO chance a paint chip that large would not have been noticed by: the factory, by the port inspection, by the PDI process, by the salesperson, by you, and then by the detailer when he did his inspection before he pulled the light.

If you're suggesting it happened over time, why would the detailer not tell you about it before the light was pulled? Every detailer I know goes over the entire car with a microscope before he touches the car, so he can show you the most extreme before/after comparisons he can create. "See all these paint defects Mr. Customer... I'll fix them for only $4,000."
I think the issue is it required the lights to be pulled to see it. I've had a few PM's from members who all have the same issue on recent delivered cars. What's your email, you need to see the video of the front half and the issues in the paint. Josh, is hands down the best in the Dallas area, and I don't think for a second he did this, as he's done lots of gt3s and he's doing my new Ford GT as well.
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Old 12-07-2018, 03:10 PM
  #47  
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I have no doubt your detailer is very good at what he does. I think it’s very strange that in both instances documented here, the paint chips are enormous, and were only documented AFTER the light was pulled for detailing or clear bra installation.

In any case, I hope you resolve it to your satisfaction and enjoy your new GT3.
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Old 12-07-2018, 04:50 PM
  #48  
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Just saw the photos.

Porsche QC has declined a bit, that's our fault for wanting more cars

But, even with that said, their fit and finish is still leaps and bounds better than many in the same level. Their cars are consistent in fitment and quality. That's a huge deal in manufacturing.

We are use to the paint swelling under the protective wrap, factory sand marks, swirls, etc....in capable hands, it's not a deal-breaker and I wouldn't get too caught up in that.

As it relates here, and to OP, we've done hundreds, maybe well over 1000 991s, and have NEVER seen that level of imperfection as it relates to the rear tail light and paint area. That area doesn't seem to be CONCEALED by the light, rather it's visible NEAR the light.

The probability of that imperfection leaving Porsche that way, is very very small, not impossible, but I've never seen it and I've been working on them for 25 years...Porsche factory QC is far too good to miss that.

My best suggestion would be to take to your dealer and see what can be done...assuming it wasn't done POST delivery.

Sometimes, when removing rear lights, they tend to stick a little. Not sure if your installer took picture BEFORE performing any work.

Things like this are a little tricky because it's hard to pinpoint when and how it happened.

We usually try and catch these upon arrival, or during the wash process. By the time it's in paint correction, that defect should have been found by several technicians.

If it's found POST paint correction, then that leaves an element of damage that could have been done at the shop...that's why, the sooner something is found, the better as the reverse engineering is easier and less hands will have touched the car.

Hope this helps and keep us posted
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Old 12-07-2018, 04:53 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Perimeter View Post
PTS in Ferrari Speak is ExtraCampionario where the car is sent off site to a separate body shop, Zanasi, for paint. The result is that these cars have signs of being properly sanded, not by robots, resulting in a far better paint job.

So no, a Ferrari PTS does not have these problems and you truly get a far better paint job
Ferrari's version of PTS vs. Porsche PTS....I'd take Porsche. I'll leave it at that
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Old 12-07-2018, 05:05 PM
  #50  
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From seeing the photos from AZFlat6 AND yours nxfedlt1, it's odd that both of you should have the same issues...odd, in that it's worth exploring further and seeing if others are having same issue. So, there might be a similar trend to look into like the paint swelling from the protective wrap.

I'll start checking them on our end, there's 6 .2s here and more on the way.

I've realized on the .2, the gap of rear left taillight is bigger than right taillight...at first I thought it was us, but I check several other new ones we didn't even open yet, and they too were not consistent on both sides.
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Old 12-07-2018, 05:39 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by MoeMistry View Post
Ferrari's version of PTS vs. Porsche PTS....I'd take Porsche. I'll leave it at that
This is very meaningful. Appreciate the input, Moe.
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Old 12-10-2018, 11:11 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by MoeMistry View Post
Ferrari's version of PTS vs. Porsche PTS....I'd take Porsche. I'll leave it at that
Respectfully disagree
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Old 12-10-2018, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Perimeter View Post
Respectfully disagree
Ferrari paint IS beautiful and definitely one of the better paint jobs out there.

Since the 430 scud, I believe Ferrari started sending out the stripes and other things to an "affiliate".

Since then, it's obvious, at least to us, what Ferrari paints at factory, and what "affiliate" paints.

We see things, as it relates to stripes, bleeding of colors into each other, thinned out paint underneath clear, particles, "feeling" of transitions from one color to another, etc.

When you compare that to Porsche, the paint itself is consistent...it's the finishing work, such as sand marks, microscratches, buffer haze, etc., that is the imperfection.

In our world, we can fix that...but fixing issues UNDER the clear, that's now getting into body shop.

Personal experience with a special F12TDF, $1.5M, and LaFerrari, $5M....dirt in paint and very thin, to the point of seeing the primer, are common. We've yet to see that on a 918.

But, who buys a Ferrari to obsess over the paint??? Damn things are sex on wheels. So, I've had to put it in perspective as it relates to that.
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Old 12-10-2018, 06:02 PM
  #54  
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These days paint is less than 300micron (0.2millimeters)
very easy at any scratch to get to the primer
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Old 12-10-2018, 08:09 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by ChicagoWhale View Post
Your detailer did that when he pulled out the light.

There is ZERO chance a paint chip that large would not have been noticed by: the factory, by the port inspection, by the PDI process, by the salesperson, by you, and then by the detailer when he did his inspection before he pulled the light.

If you're suggesting it happened over time, why would the detailer not tell you about it before the light was pulled? Every detailer I know goes over the entire car with a microscope before he touches the car, so he can show you the most extreme before/after comparisons he can create. "See all these paint defects Mr. Customer... I'll fix them for only $4,000."

Incorrect. My detail and clear-bra guys didn't pull the lights because I didn't have the rear bumper clear-bra'd. They had no need to remove the lights. Strange thing is that the lights don't seem to flex or rub against the paint at all so it would have had to been something that was adhered to this area and then pulled the paint.

I pulled the rear lights myself at 1K miles and the damage was already there and noted for the first time. Very visible with the taillights removed, and not super visible without them removed unless you're looking for it. Could have easily gotten past QC, especially if caused by plastic protective wrap removal AFTER the paint and initial QC process. In fact, the damage resembles the type of damage you would see if you have paintwork completed on a car and then apply clear-bra too quickly after the paint job without allowing the paint to properly cure first. (Then remove the clear-bra and part of the paint comes off with it.) If the shipping plastic was applied too quickly after the PTS job, it could very easily peel paint at removal time, especially in corners/divot areas that may not cure as quickly or have excessive paint depth.

Furthermore, I know of a 991.2 Turbo S locally that also went back to Porsche for this same issue. This is a known problem and Porsche is aware of it. For a $13K PTS up-charge, I expect something different.
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Old 12-10-2018, 09:57 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by AZFlat6 View Post
Incorrect. My detail and clear-bra guys didn't pull the lights because I didn't have the rear bumper clear-bra'd. They had no need to remove the lights. Strange thing is that the lights don't seem to flex or rub against the paint at all so it would have had to been something that was adhered to this area and then pulled the paint.

I pulled the rear lights myself at 1K miles and the damage was already there and noted for the first time. Very visible with the taillights removed, and not super visible without them removed unless you're looking for it. Could have easily gotten past QC, especially if caused by plastic protective wrap removal AFTER the paint and initial QC process. In fact, the damage resembles the type of damage you would see if you have paintwork completed on a car and then apply clear-bra too quickly after the paint job without allowing the paint to properly cure first. (Then remove the clear-bra and part of the paint comes off with it.) If the shipping plastic was applied too quickly after the PTS job, it could very easily peel paint at removal time, especially in corners/divot areas that may not cure as quickly or have excessive paint depth.

Furthermore, I know of a 991.2 Turbo S locally that also went back to Porsche for this same issue. This is a known problem and Porsche is aware of it. For a $13K PTS up-charge, I expect something different.
Those paint chips are huge, and I hope you get it resolved to your satisfaction.

In this last post, you said the tail light was not rubbing or digging into the bumper. Perhaps I misunderstood your original post, but I thought that was the entire claim: both lights on each side “gouging” the bumper. What adhesive do you think it could be? The white plastic protective wrap does not cover that area.

Last edited by ChicagoWhale; 12-10-2018 at 10:46 PM.
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Old 12-10-2018, 11:45 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by ChicagoWhale View Post


Those paint chips are huge, and I hope you get it resolved to your satisfaction.

In this last post, you said the tail light was not rubbing or digging into the bumper. Perhaps I misunderstood your original post, but I thought that was the entire claim: both lights on each side “gouging” the bumper. What adhesive do you think it could be? The white plastic protective wrap does not cover that area.
I can see how my original post may have been confusing. My apologies for not elaborating.

Although it appears that the tail lights are gouging/digging into the paint in these areas, I've looked into this from every angle and the edges of the lights are not physically touching the paint that I can recreate. This seems to strictly be some type of paint peeling at the exact location where the edge of the taillights come in close proximity to the bumper cover. Even pushing on the edge of the taillights they do not come in contact with the bumper cover.

My only conclusion is that the paint did not cure properly in these areas (or had surface contamination prior to paint) and somehow peeled off. Whether this was from some type of plastic wrap covering that peeled the paint upon removal, or from some type of high speed airflow around the edge of the tail lights causing the area to be ultra exposed, I have no idea. It definitely needs a resolution though.
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Old 12-16-2018, 09:08 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by MoeMistry View Post
Ferrari's version of PTS vs. Porsche PTS....I'd take Porsche. I'll leave it at that
10:59. Look at all the FOD/Debris under the paint (lower right)...wow. You weren't kidding. Brand spanking new 488 Pista with a Maaco paint job.

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Old 12-16-2018, 09:23 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Airbag997 View Post
10:59. Look at all the FOD/Debris under the paint (lower right)...wow. You weren't kidding. Brand spanking new 488 Pista with a Maaco paint job.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnvu...afv5wpw03c010c
When you really start looking at Ferrari paint jobs with a critical eye you can spot many flaws in the paint. A friend had ordered a 488 Spider in Swaters blue a PTS paint job. the back part of the roof had barely been sprayed it was hard to imagine it was allowed to leave the factory, but that is Ferrari. He complained and they built him another car and replaced it, although it took another year and half to get the new car.
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Old 12-17-2018, 01:13 AM
  #60  
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The tail lights digging into the rear bumper at the inside points is a newer 991.2 thing in my experience. We have seen it a few times and we have also seen missing paint at the tip of a rear bumper emblem point.

As Moe said, people want more and more volume comes at a cost IMHO. Still, the cars as a whole are built far better than most 6-figure cars.
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