Volume GT3RS > 5000?
10-28-2018, 08:40 PM
#1
Volume GT3RS > 5000?
Talked to a sales person of a fairly high volume dealership today. To date, they were given 15 allocations of 991.2 GT3RS, and not far fewer GT2RS. Then I asked how many speedsters they will get, he said 3. Is it fair to estimate the total WW production volume will be at least 5000 for the .2RS, given 1948 units of Speedster will be built? Why people are willing to pay ADM, if this info is roughly close to the truth? There is a glut of unused or slightly used .1RS on market, and it seems the same will happen to .2RS down the road. And I think people paying 150+ for GT2RS will be burned. The cars are not nearly as rare as the 997 GT2RS. Porsche simply is making unbelievable numbers of GT cars, although a lot are now sold in China, their #1 market ahead of US (GT cars were not sold in China until the 991 generation).
10-28-2018, 09:21 PM
#2
Talked to a sales person of a fairly high volume dealership today. To date, they were given 15 allocations of 991.2 GT3RS, and not far fewer GT2RS. Then I asked how many speedsters they will get, he said 3. Is it fair to estimate the total WW production volume will be at least 5000 for the .2RS, given 1948 units of Speedster will be built? Why people are willing to pay ADM, if this info is roughly close to the truth? There is a glut of unused or slightly used .1RS on market, and it seems the same will happen to .2RS down the road. And I think people paying 150+ for GT2RS will be burned. The cars are not nearly as rare as the 997 GT2RS. Porsche simply is making unbelievable numbers of GT cars, although a lot are now sold in China, their #1 market ahead of US (GT cars were not sold in China until the 991 generation).
10-28-2018, 09:42 PM
#5
These are still the most current estimates
Year model - WW / NA
2016 911 RS - 4,250 / 1,529
2016 911 R 991 / 323
2016 GT3 - 550 / 189
2015 GT3 - 3,800 / 1,342
2014 GT3 - 1,700 / 602
991.1 GT = 11,291 WW est. / 3,985 NA
2018 GT3 - 6,650 / 2,400
2018 GT2RS - 1,850 / 650
2019 Speedster - 1,948 / 650
2019 GT3RS - 2,700 / 950
991.2 GT = 13,148 WW est. / ~4,650 NA est
Year model - WW / NA
2016 911 RS - 4,250 / 1,529
2016 911 R 991 / 323
2016 GT3 - 550 / 189
2015 GT3 - 3,800 / 1,342
2014 GT3 - 1,700 / 602
991.1 GT = 11,291 WW est. / 3,985 NA
2018 GT3 - 6,650 / 2,400
2018 GT2RS - 1,850 / 650
2019 Speedster - 1,948 / 650
2019 GT3RS - 2,700 / 950
991.2 GT = 13,148 WW est. / ~4,650 NA est
Last edited by Dot23RS; 10-28-2018 at 10:11 PM.
10-28-2018, 10:08 PM
#6
Nordschleife Master
These are still the most current estimates
Year model - WW / NA
2016 911 RS - 4,250 / 1,529
2016 911 R 991 / 323
2016 GT3 - 550 / 189
2015 GT3 - 3,800 / 1,342
2014 GT3 - 1,700 / 602
991.1 GT = 11,291 WW est. / 3,985 NA
2019 Speedster - 1,948 / 650
2019 3RS - 2,700 / 950
2018 2RS - 1,850 / 650
2018 GT3 - 6,650 / 2,400
991.2 GT = 13,148 WW est. / ~4,650 NA est
Year model - WW / NA
2016 911 RS - 4,250 / 1,529
2016 911 R 991 / 323
2016 GT3 - 550 / 189
2015 GT3 - 3,800 / 1,342
2014 GT3 - 1,700 / 602
991.1 GT = 11,291 WW est. / 3,985 NA
2019 Speedster - 1,948 / 650
2019 3RS - 2,700 / 950
2018 2RS - 1,850 / 650
2018 GT3 - 6,650 / 2,400
991.2 GT = 13,148 WW est. / ~4,650 NA est
10-28-2018, 10:26 PM
#7
I was aware of the sticky and PORS9 database. One Porsche official was quoted saying they built 5000 units of 991.1RS, and for me the case was closed.
All I am saying is based on relative allocation # information at two dealership I happen to know comparing '16 and '19 3RS, they will make at least the same number of copies for Gen2 version. These cars are not as exclusive as some might think. We have got many more buyers because they think the P GT cars will retain values. But just like in stock market, this popular trade is getting very crowded .... may not end happily for the "investors". If you treat it as an hobby or addition knowing you are buying a depreciating asset, you are all fine
All I am saying is based on relative allocation # information at two dealership I happen to know comparing '16 and '19 3RS, they will make at least the same number of copies for Gen2 version. These cars are not as exclusive as some might think. We have got many more buyers because they think the P GT cars will retain values. But just like in stock market, this popular trade is getting very crowded .... may not end happily for the "investors". If you treat it as an hobby or addition knowing you are buying a depreciating asset, you are all fine
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10-28-2018, 10:44 PM
#8
I was aware of the sticky and PORS9 database. One Porsche official was quoted saying they built 5000 units of 991.1RS, and for me the case was closed.
All I am saying is based on relative allocation # information at two dealership I happen to know comparing '16 and '19 3RS, they will make at least the same number of copies for Gen2 version. These cars are not as exclusive as some might think. We have got many more buyers because they think the P GT cars will retain values. But just like in stock market, this popular trade is getting very crowded .... may not end happily for the "investors". If you treat it as an hobby or addition knowing you are buying a depreciating asset, you are all fine
All I am saying is based on relative allocation # information at two dealership I happen to know comparing '16 and '19 3RS, they will make at least the same number of copies for Gen2 version. These cars are not as exclusive as some might think. We have got many more buyers because they think the P GT cars will retain values. But just like in stock market, this popular trade is getting very crowded .... may not end happily for the "investors". If you treat it as an hobby or addition knowing you are buying a depreciating asset, you are all fine
The best current worldwide estimates are 2,700 for GT3RS and 1,850 for GT2RS. Speedster will be roughly the same production as GT2RS which is twice that of 911 R.
Your sales person is probably correct on their dealers allocations. If they are a top ten dealer out of the 189 Porsche dealerships in the US then ~15 GT3RS and 10 GT2RS alocations makes since. They’ll likely get a few more Speedster allocations soon once the small dealers that can’t move them quickly won’t be able to reorder. There will not be anywhere close to 5k 991.2 GT3RS alone as you need to factor in GT2RS unlike 991.1 as well as twice as many speedsters as R’s.
Last edited by Dot23RS; 10-28-2018 at 11:15 PM.
10-28-2018, 11:08 PM
#9
The value/volume threads are out of touch. 5k cars worldwide is not a lot of cars. 1200 cars for the US is minuscule. I have never seen a GT3rs outside of a dealership or a track. I've never seen a 911R outside of a showroom or a GT2RS. These cars ARE quite rare. Wether this translates into value, or justifies their markup is a different issue in the long run and time will tell.
Like historically before, these cars will likely depreciate steadily and stabilize vs maybe appreciate at a rate far slower than any real financial investment. Buy these cars to drive them or at least enjoy their simple presence but not as investments....
Like historically before, these cars will likely depreciate steadily and stabilize vs maybe appreciate at a rate far slower than any real financial investment. Buy these cars to drive them or at least enjoy their simple presence but not as investments....
10-29-2018, 12:18 AM
#10
Race Car
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Talked to a sales person of a fairly high volume dealership today. To date, they were given 15 allocations of 991.2 GT3RS, and not far fewer GT2RS. Then I asked how many speedsters they will get, he said 3. Is it fair to estimate the total WW production volume will be at least 5000 for the .2RS, given 1948 units of Speedster will be built? Why people are willing to pay ADM, if this info is roughly close to the truth? There is a glut of unused or slightly used .1RS on market, and it seems the same will happen to .2RS down the road. And I think people paying 150+ for GT2RS will be burned. The cars are not nearly as rare as the 997 GT2RS. Porsche simply is making unbelievable numbers of GT cars, although a lot are now sold in China, their #1 market ahead of US (GT cars were not sold in China until the 991 generation).
10-29-2018, 12:47 AM
#11
There are just too many damn GT cars to be collectible or anything really.
Over 20,000 GT cars in 991 gen and not enough demand to support the price.
Once economy tanks, that's when prices start falling.
Just look at the days of 100k ADM for .1 RS and now .2 RS is barely getting 30k.
Over 20,000 GT cars in 991 gen and not enough demand to support the price.
Once economy tanks, that's when prices start falling.
Just look at the days of 100k ADM for .1 RS and now .2 RS is barely getting 30k.
10-29-2018, 01:16 AM
#12
You also have to consider, there are more people who can afford these cars now compared to lets say 10-20 years ago.
Population boom also is a factor.
Unless world population goes down, in 15-20 years, a 5k production run is still pretty rare.
There are 1 billion chinese and the news says they make 2 billionaire everyday.
Dont confuse yourself by comparing the original RS quantity then now, there are reasons why the number of the original RS was low.
Population boom also is a factor.
Unless world population goes down, in 15-20 years, a 5k production run is still pretty rare.
There are 1 billion chinese and the news says they make 2 billionaire everyday.
Dont confuse yourself by comparing the original RS quantity then now, there are reasons why the number of the original RS was low.
10-29-2018, 02:18 AM
#13
2014-2019 GT total is only ~8,600 in N.A. (US and Canada combined).
991 GT is an extremely rare car when broken down by model compared to any other production car, period.
Year model - WW / NA
2016 911 RS - 4,250 / 1,529
2016 911 R 991 / 323
2016 GT3 - 550 / 189
2015 GT3 - 3,800 / 1,342
2014 GT3 - 1,700 / 602
991.1 GT = 11,291 WW est. / 3,985 NA
2018 GT3 - 6,650 / 2,400
2018 GT2RS - 1,850 / 650
2019 Speedster - 1,948 / 650
2019 GT3RS - 2,700 / 950
991.2 GT = 13,148 WW est. / ~4,650 NA est
Last edited by Dot23RS; 10-29-2018 at 03:25 AM.
10-29-2018, 03:18 AM
#14
Rennlist Member
Jeezus. Who cares? Have fun and enjoy the damn thing to it’s full potential on a racetrack every chance you get to become a better driver. #getoutanddrive
10-29-2018, 03:43 AM
#15
Race Car
IMO: Maybe because Europe *might* not get a second batch of 991.2RS more cars comes to NA - If so then the estimated numbers for the whole world will be askew.
***Edit: Just learned that there is a second batch GT3RS coming
***Edit: Just learned that there is a second batch GT3RS coming
Last edited by Kobalt; 11-01-2018 at 09:38 AM.