Archimedes

WenigerAberBeser

mooty

15 pages
dudes, if you like, just get a MT plate and put it on
when you get pulled over, let us know how it goes down
some are lucky
some not so much
just decide and pick one
this is way too much brain damage

I just registered CGT in CA. 9.25%
tax close to 6 figures. but I saved a lot of brain cells.

should I put the rubber on or not ...
what if she gets knocked up...
christ, just get on with it...
man up...

frankee4u

The GREATEST response in Rennlist History! Thanks Mooty for this classic comment.

15 pages
dudes, if you like, just get a MT plate and put it on
when you get pulled over, let us know how it goes down
some are lucky
some not so much
just decide and pick one
this is way too much brain damage

I just registered CGT in CA. 9.25%
tax close to 6 figures. but I saved a lot of brain cells.

should I put the rubber on or not ...
what if she gets knocked up...
christ, just g

John Mclane

One more video:

Catorce

All my cars are registered in CA and I paid the tax on all of them. My parents even have a summer home in Kalispell, MT so I could probably get away with this better than the average guy.

Let me state my clear position on the California Franchise Tax Board - those guys are a bunch of douchebags and as far as I am concerned they can run backwards through a field of dicks.

If I thought I could get away with saving the tax on car purchases, I would have all my cars Montana plated, but there is a lot of scrutiny here. The reason I don't do it is because in my opinion the scheme is played out here.

I would not hesitate to legitimately screw the FTB if it was possible, but with 15 cars and counting, it would just be strange to have them all montana plated.

Yippiekiaye

People go across state lines to buy products all the time. I used to live in Memphis. We used to drive across the border to Arkansas cause gas was cheaper as were taxes.

I buy and sell real estate, I consult with a tax attorney on how I can minimize my real estate taxes, use depreciation to my advantage.

I believe the term used prior was "holier than thou". If you have an itch to pay tax, by all means do so, but please dont judge others who use their means to try to lower their tax burden as much as possible.

Hothonda

Car & Driver's John Phillips article on Montana plates:


A few years ago, at a Kruse auction, I sat beside a bald bidder who’d already lost precious portions of his mind over a 2007 Ford Mustang GT-H, the black-and-gold Hertz clone. “I will get this car,” he assured, and he did, but for a sum greater than the Mustang’s original sticker. I asked about applicable auction fees and sales tax. “Oh, no sales tax,” he said. “Montana plates.”

Well, now I live in Montana and finally grasp the BB’s (bald bidder’s) boast. Right now, my adopted state is enjoying a humming cottage industry of people who, for fees ranging from $174 (no attorney) to $1500 (an earnest attorney), will create a limited liability company, or LLC, for nonresidents. That LLC is a “legal entity” and doesn’t need to stipulate your name or state of residency. In turn, your LLC can buy, well, let’s call it a “company car” that happens to be a pearlescent-mauve McLaren 570S costing $250,000. If the BB had purchased that McLaren in his state of residency—let’s say in Michigan— he’d pay 6 percent sales tax, or $15,000. But if he’d bought the car through his Montana LLC, he’d pay zero sales tax because Montana doesn’t collect any. Of course, once the BB had his car, he’d have to bolt on funky Montana plates, front and rear.

Let me be clear: This is 100 percent legal in Montana. The law was established in 1991. But we’re dealing with state law here, not federal, so whatever laws Montana enacts may not jibe with those of, say, California. In fact, there are state regulators in a foaming tizzy about their inability to collect sales taxes that have been nullified by Montana’s LLCs. Not only California but also Arizona, Colorado, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Nevada, Oregon, and Washington. Some have set up tip lines so that citizens can report suspected tax cheats. Last year, in fact, Californians reported 260 Montana plates to the CHiPs, who can say, “Please prove your established state of residency.” Montana-plated vehicles are said to be prized in California, where they can often obviate smog checks, unless the car is used primarily in California. Of course, who knows if it is?


The thing is, do you plan to insure your McLaren? Many insurers view LLCs as week-old fish. If you’re ethical, you’ll tell your agent that your true state of residency is Michigan, that you’ll drive the McLaren in Michigan and will store it in Michigan, but the car will bear Montana plates in the name of a Montana LLC. “Oh, really?” says your agent, pointing to the clause that says, “False statements on your insurance application are grounds for denying a claim.” Now what? You drive your uninsured McLaren to *Mar-a-Lago for Vlad’s big birthday bash? Have you seen the valets at that place?

Avoiding taxes and evading taxes are not conjoined twins, because one of them can put you in prison. If your state decrees that it has primary jurisdiction and that you’ve formed the Montana LLC for the sole purpose of evading taxes, you’ve evaded taxes. They’ll apply the legal test of “piercing the corporate veil.” Did you, in good faith, establish your LLC as a business to make a profit? If not, it may be judged a shell corporation. Go tell Judge Judy, but you’ll likely dole out more than the $15,000 you saved in the first place.

I contacted attorneys Jared Heggen and John Bennett in Missoula, Montana, both substantial players in this business. Heggen can set you up with an LLC to buy a luxury vehicle—e.g., our mythical McLaren—for $1495, depending on services rendered during a mandatory one-hour consultation. Heck, I spend an hour just getting out of bed. Heggen told me: “We provide guidance whether the client would be compliant with tax and registration laws in his state of residence. Plus, we require him to seek independent counsel in his state.” Heggen enforces that by making you sign a notarized promise.

Heggen went on to describe a scenario unknown to me. “If the client’s state of residence has a sales-and/or use-tax clearance test period [my emphasis], I could assure him he’d not incur sales or use tax, provided the car was shipped to a Montana storage facility. The vehicle then must stay out of the state of residence during the test period.” For some states, such as California, Bennett says that can mean storing your luxury vehicle outside the state for up to 12 months but with 30-day windows for servicing. “It’s complicated. Florida and Massachusetts demand six months. Arizona, 90 days. Unless you spend a half million on a car, this is not for you,” he warns. By the way, Bennett drives a Ferrari F430 Spider and a 1967 Fiat Dino Spider.

Folks often establish Montana LLCs because they’re furious over their state’s steep taxes. Of course, the way to fix that is not to evade the tax but to change the law.

I hope the BB is right now performing burnouts in his Mustang and not studying contract law at Leavenworth. But I’ll tell you this: I plan to invest in Montana storage facilities, to which I’ll have all the keys. I’ve never driven a 570S.

bittrl1000

That seems to be a key difference between this MT plate scheme and the example given by defenders of this practice: the Delaware incorporation used by many companies. I'm not a lawyer, but I do remember the concept of "piercing the corporate veil" from my MBA program. It's when a person co-mingles their personal activities with those of their corporation...the law may decide you don't get the protections/benefits of the "limited liability" of your LLC, for example. This concept could apply to folks creating MT LLC's for the primary purpose of avoiding PERSONAL taxes, whereas companies incorporating in DE are not co-mingling personal and business activity.

In other words, DE incorporations are not "shell" companies.

FourT6and2

But Person A is a "YouTuber." And their channel is all about their car. And it's a business. See, they post monthly videos of them driving around and talking about cars for 5 minutes. Car is owned by their YT business haha

I see lots of people doing this on YT. They have like 5 subscribers. I guarantee they're using the YT channel as a tax write off.

WenigerAberBeser

What are you even talking about? The tax in question is SALES tax on a VEHICLE. Why are you assuming I just ***** nilly pay out every possible tax given to me without looking it over?

There's abiding by the law to lower your taxes and there's not abiding by the law to lower your taxes (if you are unsure, ask a tax professional). In Georgia, we are seeing the outcome of people not abiding by the law to lower their taxes. All I was pointing out is that people that registered their car legally in Georgia do not have to worry about a multitude of concerns. It's THAT simple.

GeoJoe

Ed knows his stuff... he's also the current (I think) record holder of the US cross country speed record.

Yippiekiaye

You should really reread what you write before you post to me. What Im talking about is a response to your post - "I follow the laws for all types of taxes". and then you conveniently change the topic to "SALES tax on a VEHICLE"

So I ask you sir- what are YOU talking about?

misterwaterfall

Taking a legal mortgage interest of dependent deduction is not the same as setting up a sham LLC to skirt the tax law. If you think those are the same, you have very different views than I

Yippiekiaye

Ever written off a personal dinner with your spouse and categorized it as a business expense?
Ever taken a vacation and called it a corporate expense for a board meeting?
Ever bought a computer for yourself but paid for it by your business to take the deduction?

Lets all stop trying to judge others. If this was illegal, then every time I go to Coffee and Cars here locally and there are a dozen cars with Montana plates, why do the cops, who are present at the events, just sit by and do nothing?

You want to pay more tax, by all means do so. There are folks who try to minimize their tax burdens and for that I say good for them.