PTSGT3

Interesting product for sure.... Andddd discuss








"By replacing the stock flywheel and starter with a 175-horsepower flywheel electric motor, Vonnen can add a ton of horsepower without affecting engine emissions."

"According to the above graphic found on Vonnen’s website the extra boost in power comes with a minimal weight penalty, like under 200 pounds minimal. Crucially, the electric motor is only 38 pounds, and the battery stack is just 80. Now, obviously, this extra power comes in short bursts with such a small battery pack. It’s not going to be the kind of hybrid that you can drive on full electric for your commute to work, but it can be set up in a number of ways to change how the car performs, including an economy mode for better fuel consumption."

"According to the folks I spoke to about this system, the Vonnen electric motor essentially does not communicate with the standard internal combustion engine at all. The system taps into the factory CAN BUS to “listen in” on what you’re doing with throttle position and gear changes, but it doesn’t actually tell the car anything. Effectively, when the electric power adder kicks on to provide more thrust, as far as the car is concerned, it just thinks it is being assisted by an outside force, like gravity when going downhill, for example. In other words, the engine doesn’t care what the EV motor is doing. It’s a relatively simple way to implement a complex system."

"Vonnen says their current system is compatible with all 2012-2016 Porsche 911 (including Turbo and GT3), Cayman, and Boxster models"

https://jalopnik.com/vonnen-performa...s-s-1829422353

80p

BRB, getting checkbook

shewu

I talked to one of the reps on Thursday. He said that it works for both manual and PDK. It's been too long since the last manual hybrid, which was quite the potato (Honda CRZ). Speaking of Hondas, their swapping of the flywheel for the electric motor is reminiscent of the OG Insight, which was also available with a manual.

Somewhat off topic here, but I hope they will investigate the 991.2 non-turbo turbos to torque fill.

80p

Did they provide any information about recharge rate, like over the course of a lap at a specified track or after a certain amount of time while street driving?

Petevb

Nice idea that will be very challenging to do right. It also seems the kind of thing you'd consider on a GTS or Turbo, not a GT3...

Power is relatively easy to add through increased displacement or higher boost if you're willing to void your warranty (which this surely would). Maintaining factory drive-ablility, especially part throttle, is the tough part, and keep in mind that the calibrations needed to get the 918 "right" took over a year. I'd wager this hurts drive-ability and part throttle tuning significantly.

That said on a Turbo or GTS the torque fill should be nice, while by neither are the last word in throttle linearity or response to begin with. For a freeway rocket a 1% forward shift in weight distribution should also be immaterial, so concerns around how the handling is effected should be limited. As would concerns around the impact on a car's value- not top of mind if you're driving a turbo in any case.

It's a sign of the future, but I'd wager it makes a modern 911 worse anywhere but a straight line at the moment. And you'll be able to buy the factory effort within a few years which will put this to shame. I'd let someone else beta-test...

TRAKCAR

CAlexio

400 V and 800v system, $70,000 to 125k installed. Gives you somewhere between five seconds of acceleration, then needs approximately 9X that time to recharge and cool battery...

Can be mapped for specific tracks, I'll kinds of applications are coming for other cars as well... Seems to make most sense in a 911 where adding about 130 pounds to the front could balance the car out nicely... very minimal complexity added to the car, everything piggybacks nicely, battery regeneration happens when brakes are applied, but doesn't interact at all with the braking system, words with manual cars at the moment not yet pdk. These are Real enthusiasts building something very very innovative... I see this being a wonderful complement to a naturally aspirated higo revving car like a Gt3, giving it 918 spider levels of torquefill. without affecting sound and power delivery or emissions...

fxz

Anyone thinking the guys at Vonnen have developed this without any Porsche "little hand" ??

Guys this takes a lot of cash to be developed without any business justification as 991 retrofit thus is the next 992 GT hybrid unit

CRex

Yeah this seems to jive with press reports of the 992 PDK unit being enlarged to house a hybrid drive... comment about this being developed out of nowhere is spot-on.. this couldn't have just emerged without factory support of some kind.

CAlexio

Your speculation is logical, but incorrect.

CJ and I spoke to them at length.. the answer is an unequivocal no, no OEM support at all. In fact, in addition to their word, there are some very obvious aspects which instantly show this is their own personal aftermarket effort when you actually see the system in person. For example, 991 just happens to be one application, they are doing same for bmw and other brands. It's a relatively non-invasive process in certain cars, but more invasive in others. for example, with the 991 application the whole transmission is moved back about 1cm to make the hybrid clutch fit, and battery is moved to frunk, and software unit is drilled into rear deck . In other cars it isn't, it's all hidden away. Depends on that vehicles layout. Also the battery placement in frunk was only option, but adds 130lb to front, suboptimal solution. With an OEm type of system it would realistically be in the center tunnel with a specially adapted chassis. This is a pure outsider effort on their part, but a really good one.

The only limitation is the 5 sec time limit for the power, and the 9:1 ratio of power time to recharge time.. good for track use, and they can calibrate it for individual tracks, but not for road use.

fxz

Alex maybe they're under an NDA ?

noone will spend 75k for the system on their 991, that means they ve worked for charity...

neoprufrok

Looks pretty cool to me. We had NAAAZZZ. We had turbos the size of elephant gonads. Now we have RC POWER.

C.J. Ichiban

When CAlexio and I spoke with them, we pontificated on a few various options and flexible tuning of the system similar to a Cobb access port.

Q: ok you are offering 175hp for x seconds- what about 90hp for 2x seconds?

A: that's a good idea, we figured we would showcase the max hp but if you want your system tuned for less then we could probably do that.

Q: what other cars are you seeing this on?

A: well we can do a 930 or a 993 or whatever. We have some Bmw E36 Frankenstein project guys that want this stuff.


The bottom line is that Vonnen is a newer company but it's partnered with Elephant Racing who makes a lot of components for all kinds of cars. The build quality looked good- CALexio and I had a lot of questions about cooling, recharge, etc and he invited us to drive the car once it's fully ready. Neoprufrock and I will probably drive it for our webcast and maybe even back to back against something similar st Sonoma.

The idea is fantastic, the execution could be good or great or awkward. Time will tell but this Is definitely future stuff for everyone.

Dougr743

IF a tune Voids warranty, this better

Catorce

I think interesting things happen on that car at 88mph, especially when the flux capacitor kicks in.