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.2 GT3RS vs .2GT3 Who wins in a roll race?

 
Old 09-23-2018, 05:58 PM
  #46  
GrantG
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Originally Posted by GT3 View Post
Serious question though: Anybody know why a stock 435hp 997.2 GT3 puts down about 400 whp sae corrected on a Dynojet, and stock 475hp 991.1 PDK GT3 also put down about 400 whp sae corrected on the same dyno? Were the 997.2 GT3 really under rated or PDK actually has higher drivetrain loss versus the manual?
I'm not sure of that particular test, but Dundon also found the 991.2 Manual to make 26hp more at the wheels than .1 RS (both rated at 500hp). I think the power loss of PDK is responsible for the lion's share of the difference. Although PDK is not an inefficient slushbox, it does have wet clutches that are simply less efficient than the dry clutch in the manual. It is a significant difference that will influence the result in some types of tests.

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Old 09-23-2018, 05:59 PM
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It sounds like the weight differences were minor enough to be able to conclude that the RS is probably significantly quicker. Now can we just quit screwing around and turn this into a value/pricing/ADM discussion already?
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Old 09-23-2018, 06:04 PM
  #48  
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For anyone who thinks that pccb vs iron brakes make a difference, I've got a bridge to sell you. Holy moly, the marketing people really got you hooked line and sinker. Crazy.

The results of the race are surprising to me. I'm looking forward to doing data overlays going down the straights between my .2gt3 and the new .2rs when it gets back home
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Old 09-23-2018, 06:32 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by orthojoe View Post
For anyone who thinks that pccb vs iron brakes make a difference, I've got a bridge to sell you. Holy moly, the marketing people really got you hooked line and sinker. Crazy.

The results of the race are surprising to me. I'm looking forward to doing data overlays going down the straights between my .2gt3 and the new .2rs when it gets back home
Makes every difference.....

At C&C.
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Old 09-23-2018, 06:44 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by RyanDDWPartners View Post
You sound like Dave. There were NO issues with this race. The GT3 had LESS fuel than the RS. The RS had a passenger the GT3 did not. The GT3 wheels and tires stock are lighter than the 20/21's on the RS stock. Steels versus Ceramics will absolutely not make much difference at all in a race like this. Have you ever raced twin cars one with steels and one with ceramics? I have and I bet you haven't. The RS isn't even broken in yet, the GT3 is. It's absolute hilarity that people think things like brakes make a "big difference" when most haven't even lined up races like this to even compare. The exhausts are both stock on both cars. The driver of the GT3 is also a very experienced driver and races regularly.

No matter what anyone does people make excuses and conspiracy theories. That's just the world we live in. But also let's not forget I own a .2GT3 and it is sitting next to the RS. I don't care which one wins because I own both. I knew the RS would win the minute I drove it for the first time.
Completely on point response. Some folks just can't handle the obvious reality that the .2 GT3 RS is just faster(in all aspects) than a GT3. I appreciate guys like you that take the time to video, document and post ACTUAL comparisons instead of rhetoric and BS. The unfortunate part is you will always have a few people that just don't get it. Just remember, all the facts and correct explanation in the world will never change their mind.
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Old 09-23-2018, 06:51 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by RyanDDWPartners View Post
You sound like Dave. There were NO issues with this race. The GT3 had LESS fuel than the RS. The RS had a passenger the GT3 did not. The GT3 wheels and tires stock are lighter than the 20/21's on the RS stock. Steels versus Ceramics will absolutely not make much difference at all in a race like this. Have you ever raced twin cars one with steels and one with ceramics? I have and I bet you haven't. The RS isn't even broken in yet, the GT3 is. It's absolute hilarity that people think things like brakes make a "big difference" when most haven't even lined up races like this to even compare. The exhausts are both stock on both cars. The driver of the GT3 is also a very experienced driver and races regularly.

No matter what anyone does people make excuses and conspiracy theories. That's just the world we live in. But also let's not forget I own a .2GT3 and it is sitting next to the RS. I don't care which one wins because I own both. I knew the RS would win the minute I drove it for the first time.
Ryan,

Why so defensive? These were questions I had that came to mind as I watched the video, knowing you had an extra passenger and extra gas makes up for those other things. Just didn't know that. Good to know that my 3RS is going to be faster than my current ride. Thanks for doing the test.
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Old 09-23-2018, 07:06 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by RyanDDWPartners View Post
The parasitic loss between a PDK and Manual are virtually the same. The PDK is not like a traditional slush box automatic with a converter that eats up HP
FYI, the parasitics in the PDK are in fact noticeably higher- the wet clutches and e-diff both run from pressurized gear oil, and the associated pump and pumping loss is not present in the manual. Likely responsible manuals dynoing significantly higher.

Nice run, impressive showing from the RS. In the video it looked like you started both high in the RPM band?
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Old 09-23-2018, 07:07 PM
  #53  
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thinking GT3 could beat RS is about as naive as thinking GT2 RS could beat a Cup...
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Old 09-23-2018, 07:12 PM
  #54  
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I dont understand the surprise...the RS should be faster. If it wasnt, I would be disappointed and porsche should be too.
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Old 09-23-2018, 07:35 PM
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The RS should be faster. It has more power. Not sure why people are getting upset and defensive. Forum members wanted some clarity on weight and options. Fuel, passengers and brakes all make a difference in power to weight ratio. Now that it has been clearned up we can clearly see the RS is faster. I still think a manual with pccbĺs will be closer to the RS than a PDK car with steels. Simple power to weight ratio. I posted a video of one that tied a Turbo S from a roll.

I would love to see a .1 GT3RS, .2 GT3 PDK, .2 GT3 6spd and .2 RS roll race.
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Old 09-23-2018, 07:37 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by joejenie View Post
Ryan,

Why so defensive? These were questions I had that came to mind as I watched the video, knowing you had an extra passenger and extra gas makes up for those other things. Just didn't know that. Good to know that my 3RS is going to be faster than my current ride. Thanks for doing the test.
Exactly. We all appreciate the test but wanted some details.
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Old 09-23-2018, 08:05 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Petevb View Post
FYI, the parasitics in the PDK are in fact noticeably higher- the wet clutches and e-diff both run from pressurized gear oil, and the associated pump and pumping loss is not present in the manual. Likely responsible manuals dynoing significantly higher.

Nice run, impressive showing from the RS. In the video it looked like you started both high in the RPM band?
But wouldn't this be offset by the PDK having an extra ratio and a 4.5% lower final drive ratio..This means the PDK has 4.5% lower gearing in the lower four gears and even lower in the higher gears.Lower gearing is a torque multiplier..
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Old 09-23-2018, 08:22 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by RyanDDWPartners View Post
You sound like Dave. There were NO issues with this race. The GT3 had LESS fuel than the RS. The RS had a passenger the GT3 did not. The GT3 wheels and tires stock are lighter than the 20/21's on the RS stock. Steels versus Ceramics will absolutely not make much difference at all in a race like this. Have you ever raced twin cars one with steels and one with ceramics? I have and I bet you haven't. The RS isn't even broken in yet, the GT3 is. It's absolute hilarity that people think things like brakes make a "big difference" when most haven't even lined up races like this to even compare. The exhausts are both stock on both cars. The driver of the GT3 is also a very experienced driver and races regularly.

No matter what anyone does people make excuses and conspiracy theories. That's just the world we live in. But also let's not forget I own a .2GT3 and it is sitting next to the RS. I don't care which one wins because I own both. I knew the RS would win the minute I drove it for the first time.

Yeah, I've driven an RS, and own a PDK GT3- I am not surprised by this result. I would love an RS, but couldn't afford an allocation. Maybe I'll trade for one in the future, but oh well, my car still fu**ing rocks. Thanks for the content, bro, good shi7.
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Old 09-23-2018, 08:26 PM
  #59  
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I don't know if this is a helpful datapoint in this discussion or not, but here is my GT2RS vs a 2010 Honda Odyssey Ex. The driver is a friend of mine and was inexperienced with both racing odysseys and launching a GT2RS. I think he got nervous and missed the first shift - he wasn't used to how quickly it hit redline but GT2RS still eeked out the win. One important note - the odyssey had steel brakes and the GT2RS has PCCB.



Last edited by sgroer; 09-23-2018 at 10:32 PM.
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Old 09-23-2018, 08:27 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Nizer View Post
thinking GT3 could beat RS is about as naive as thinking GT2 RS could beat a Cup...
You did not hear it from me but the GT2 RS can beat the Cup.

I am sworn to secrecy
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