When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Unfortunately I'm not too happy with PCNA and Porsche to the extent that I don't know if I want to be driving their products/supporting the brand anymore, and/or maybe they just don't want me as a customer! Not a good feeling having to "put up" with the dealers in my markets for a luxury purchase/experience, especially for this kind of $. Don't like what the company is turning into and the direction they are heading across the board, with the GT cars being the last of the cars I'd want and also conveniently by far the most painful purchasing experience to date which is only to likely get worse.
.
If you think Porsche is bad in this respect, IMO, Ferrari is 100X worse. No question. Ferrari has to sell at MSRP as you know, but they have their ways. They won't sell you a new model unless you buy one of their used models off the lot first (at an inflated price). So what they do to get around the MSRP issue is to sell a new car to a preferred customer at MSRP, then they purchase the car back from the customer at MSRP or MSRP +. Now they can sell the car as "USED" and ask whatever they want.
Remember, "Before you make the purchase, you are in charge. Once you buy, they are in charge."
So I see things the reverse as you. Although I'm fed up with Porsche and ADM and the fact that I was literally told by a salesman "You'd have to be one of our special customers for me to sell you this GT2RS." I still think Ferrari is worse. The F430 and 458 are both great and both reliable, but I could never get over the feeling that both a "fragile"....the paint and finish sucks, and the quality of the plastic parts fit and finish is not good, but the driving experience is unique. My Porsche service manager is great to me and has been for years. Ferrari is OK, but they take too damn long and its inconvenient for me.
After all that, why not try the spyder? You can't see the engine, but you can't see it no matter what when you're driving anyways. Spyder is the way to go. When I see one, I think maybe I should pick one up, but then I don't for the reasons above.
But Heck, give it a go. Life is short and the only one truth is, nobody gets out of here alive.
and their rapid depreciation schedule makes them great for a buyer
Originally Posted by 2006m5
V12 for the win...many here might say I'm nuts but I really like to buy a FF or a Lusso
It all comes down to user purpose. For long road trips, cruising PCH, around town, practicality...F12 is the best Italian car for today's 225k. Sure it might be a 145k car in 3 more years (maybe 175) but if you were to lease a ferrari for anything approaching 50- 60 bucks a day that's worth it. If you put 25,000 miles on a 458/430 scud you will be a lot worse off just with chiropractor bills.
Well if you are truly committed to his idea, then I would go drive some of the various models. I would agree the real value in my mind is the F-12, but it's different than a 458 for sure, so go drive several and you will have a good idea of what these cars are about. The things most have said about Ferrari I think are spot on, the way they feel, the dealer network , the Parent company, they are all full of themselves believe me. Good luck in your quest and I am sure you will let us know your thoughts.
Thanks all for the input across the board, RL is a great resource
Maybe it got lost on my lengthy first post, but this isn't a move I'm committed to making yet. Just doing due diligence and having fun learning about others' experience good and bad with the brand and 458 specifically
I think that the Porsche antics/games is just the push for me to now seriously consider a car I've thought to be one of the most beautiful ever but for whatever reason told myself I couldn't get...
CJ - it's not actually the Cayenne hunt but the overall experience with most dealers I've had to deal with over the past couple years. Whether for buying my 991.2 GT3/hunting for that allocation, servicing my 991.2 GT3, inquiring about 992.1 GT3, and yes even working on a couple Cayennes before I contacted you which were then sold from under me as we were finalizing price. What irks me the most is that I've dealt with Porsche dealers for a very long time and only recently have I noticed a severe drop in quality/focus on customer service along with an uptick in arrogance/hyper focus on profit/looking at the customer like what have you done for me recently when it should be the other way around IMO, GT car or not. The bottom line for most dealers is a happy bottom line, not a happy customer. That has put a very sour taste in my mouth. Conveniently, the only Porsche cars I really want are the most unobtainable and likely only going to get harder to get as their other cars head in the other direction (non GT cars), while I am equally attracted to a pedestrian/used/CPO 458 and I can sit and shop around for the spec I want with a normal depreciation curve which is quite a refreshing experience. I am not a GT owner because of the atypical depreciation curve/never plan to benefit from that, as I view all of my cars as write offs and if I get anything back when I'm done with the car it's an added bonus, even willing to eat the ADM/sales tax loss if I do find the right 458 and am comfortable making that switch.
Maybe Ferrari is at least staying true to who they are (LOL) while Porsche is trying to become Ferrari
Thankfully I don't expect to find myself in similar shoes as I won't be spec'ing a Ferrari or trying to get one of the unobtainable LE models, I just want a pre-owned 458. Now leaning towards Italia actually as I've never owned a convertible and maybe I wouldn't open the top as much as I think I would, I don't even open the sunroofs on my cars most of the time... To see the V8 would be very very cool to me as well. A lot of people have added great information in here so thank you all, still hunting for the right spec and taking my time won't rush anything
Sorry if that ended up rambling as I do want to try and focus on the GT3 vs 458 and just 458 ownership experience if possible
Thanks all for the input across the board, RL is a great resource
Maybe it got lost on my lengthy first post, but this isn't a move I'm committed to making yet. Just doing due diligence and having fun learning about others' experience good and bad with the brand and 458 specifically
I think that the Porsche antics/games is just the push for me to now seriously consider a car I've thought to be one of the most beautiful ever but for whatever reason told myself I couldn't get...
CJ - it's not actually the Cayenne hunt but the overall experience with most dealers I've had to deal with over the past couple years. Whether for buying my 991.2 GT3/hunting for that allocation, servicing my 991.2 GT3, inquiring about 992.1 GT3, and yes even working on a couple Cayennes before I contacted you which were then sold from under me as we were finalizing price. What irks me the most is that I've dealt with Porsche dealers for a very long time and only recently have I noticed a severe drop in quality/focus on customer service along with an uptick in arrogance/hyper focus on profit/looking at the customer like what have you done for me recently when it should be the other way around IMO, GT car or not. The bottom line for most dealers is a happy bottom line, not a happy customer. That has put a very sour taste in my mouth. Conveniently, the only Porsche cars I really want are the most unobtainable and likely only going to get harder to get as their other cars head in the other direction (non GT cars), while I am equally attracted to a pedestrian/used/CPO 458 and I can sit and shop around for the spec I want with a normal depreciation curve which is quite a refreshing experience. I am not a GT owner because of the atypical depreciation curve/never plan to benefit from that, as I view all of my cars as write offs and if I get anything back when I'm done with the car it's an added bonus, even willing to eat the ADM/sales tax loss if I do find the right 458 and am comfortable making that switch.
Maybe Ferrari is at least staying true to who they are (LOL) while Porsche is trying to become Ferrari
Thankfully I don't expect to find myself in similar shoes as I won't be spec'ing a Ferrari or trying to get one of the unobtainable LE models, I just want a pre-owned 458. Now leaning towards Italia actually as I've never owned a convertible and maybe I wouldn't open the top as much as I think I would, I don't even open the sunroofs on my cars most of the time... To see the V8 would be very very cool to me as well. A lot of people have added great information in here so thank you all, still hunting for the right spec and taking my time won't rush anything
Sorry if that ended up rambling as I do want to try and focus on the GT3 vs 458 and just 458 ownership experience if possible
BTW - great tip on insurance, thanks
Regarding the open top, I recently got my first cab (a GTS), and I have no idea why I waited so long. Where you're located you should definitely consider it, it's an amazing feeling driving with an open top. At the very least go for a long test drive in one. It's not like you're going to track it, so the little loss of rigidity is a very small price to pay for that open air feeling.
Regarding the open top, I recently got my first cab (a GTS), and I have no idea why I waited so long. Where you're located you should definitely consider it, it's an amazing feeling driving with an open top. At the very least go for a long test drive in one. It's not like you're going to track it, so the little loss of rigidity is a very small price to pay for that open air feeling.
So far I'm kind of open to both as the spec I'm hunting for seems to be quite rare (Argento Nurburgring with race seats, shields, yellow calipers, rear camera), but that's a good point. Never owned a cab/open air car
Originally Posted by GiuseppeM
I just got a V12 Ferrari FF, reason is...well it’s a V12 and can take my kids around. I prefer the look of the 488 to the 458 but I prefer NA cars.
Sorry but it doesn’t make sense you want to give away your GT3 because you’re disappointed with the brand. At all.
Love the FF - congrats and enjoy in good health, prefer the look much more than the Lusso personally. Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough but I've always "lusted" after a 458 but irrationally told myself I can't get it. The Porsche s&^* experience is just maybe the push I needed to investigate further. Thankfully you aren't making this decision for me as we all make decisions that may or may not make sense to others, especially on purchases like this!
Have thought of buying a 458 for the past few years , but have not done so for the following reasons
1. Dealers are arrogant and tried few of them
2. For the most part , people are afraid of driving them, because of significant mileage depreciation curve So how much are you able to enjoy driving !!!!!
3. Trading them in seems to be PIA. All Ferrari dealers that I spoke with in person, told me that they will not buy car back, but will sell on consignment , after charging 700 dollars for inspecting the car , and they will keep car only for 3 month , after which you have to take it back
4. Reliability seems to be improving but not at the level of Porsche
5. attract too much attention , which is a negative for me
thanks for starting this thread as I am learning from other members experiences
Last edited by pitt911; 09-16-2018 at 06:24 PM.
Reason: typo
Buy/switch for the car. Buy/switch for the brand if you like the brand. Don’t buy/switch due to the behaviour of the importer/distributor and dealers. I personally like the car (I don’t own one but have a fair bit of use experience with them in common with most of the brand’s product of the last few decades) but would prefer a GT3 and some other Ferraris in almost any situation. If you prefer the 458 - and it is an extremely fine car - then you will likely enjoy it. One can hardly call it a poor choice for a fun car! If maintained carefully and actually used, most Maranello cars are more reliable than they are generally credited with being.
Association with the Ferrari brand, as with any other brand, has pros and cons. It will be what you make of it and your experience in that regard will ultimately say more about you than anyone else.
The dealers and more especially the importer/distributor (FNA) are no better than PCNA and it’s dealer network and are arguably worse in all the same regards and some others. Note that some of the most reviled Porsche dealers are also Ferrari concessionaires or have close connections with them. Chances are high that anything PCNA and its dealers have done to annoy and irritate you, including mismanaging the brand and maltreating long time piggy banks...sorry...owners was likely pioneered by one brand in this and other markets: Ferrari. Porsche is, sadly, emulating Ferrari far too closely so far as I can tell. My relative success and satisfaction in navigating the Porsche sales world so far (as a customer) is due to my experience with Ferrari for decades before. You are very wise to understand that the way you are being treated can turn on a dime. It may turn on a pin head. It often does. Or you may cultivate it and have decades of excellent experience and possibly even good service. There is no intrinsic reason to believe it will be better than your recent Porsche experience.
If you choose to buy the 458, enjoy it in the best of health.
09-16-2018, 12:46 PM
