GT car / Salesman - Shiraaz Sookralli - Champion Porsche's VP of Marketing
09-15-2018, 08:13 AM
#841
This isn't diesel gate where Porsche / VAG did something wrong and became liable. This is one guy and possibly his wife. Whether it's more than that is pure speculation and, unless something so freakishly improbable as Sookralli coordinating with Porsche executives overseas to commit this fraud happened, Porsche will not have liability. That being the case, if Porsche had no relationship to the crime other than it was their product that was the subject of the transaction, they have no moral obligation to do anything because they didn't do anything wrong.
As for a PR matter, well, Porsche is getting publicity and, you know the old saying about publicity. One could say Porsche is getting good publicity over the "mystique" or "exclusivity" of their GT cars and that it promotes their brand. Others could say they're getting bad publicity about their dealers and the ADMs as is happening on this forum but, the general public isn't used to the process of buying a GT Pcar and probably wouldn't even think of how it had anything to do with the fraud. Ipse repeated the point I made earlier because the point made there really addresses the finger pointing we're seeing in this thread. And, that is to say, this wasn't Porsche's fault, they're not liable, they didn't do anything wrong and, they shouldn't be expected to be the deep pocket from which victims should be made whole. If you're suggesting it would be good PR for Porsche to do something, like pay victims or, build more GT3 allocations, their attorneys would probably advise against that least it give a sense that they did do something wrong and are making reparations. I don't see really any upside for Porsche to do anything about this other than to scrutinize their relationship with Champion. Despite what I said about publicity, Porsche would be better off without another headache and headline like this one. It's possible Porsche could pull Champion's dealership licencing but, I don't know enough about the matter to intelligently comment.
Dan (thinks you target the criminal, not the manufacturer of the crowbar he used to accomplish the theft)
As for a PR matter, well, Porsche is getting publicity and, you know the old saying about publicity. One could say Porsche is getting good publicity over the "mystique" or "exclusivity" of their GT cars and that it promotes their brand. Others could say they're getting bad publicity about their dealers and the ADMs as is happening on this forum but, the general public isn't used to the process of buying a GT Pcar and probably wouldn't even think of how it had anything to do with the fraud. Ipse repeated the point I made earlier because the point made there really addresses the finger pointing we're seeing in this thread. And, that is to say, this wasn't Porsche's fault, they're not liable, they didn't do anything wrong and, they shouldn't be expected to be the deep pocket from which victims should be made whole. If you're suggesting it would be good PR for Porsche to do something, like pay victims or, build more GT3 allocations, their attorneys would probably advise against that least it give a sense that they did do something wrong and are making reparations. I don't see really any upside for Porsche to do anything about this other than to scrutinize their relationship with Champion. Despite what I said about publicity, Porsche would be better off without another headache and headline like this one. It's possible Porsche could pull Champion's dealership licencing but, I don't know enough about the matter to intelligently comment.
Dan (thinks you target the criminal, not the manufacturer of the crowbar he used to accomplish the theft)
09-15-2018, 08:58 AM
#842
Rennlist Member
Updated: 5:04 p.m. Monday, Nov. 11, 2013 | Posted: 4:50 p.m. Monday, Nov. 11, 2013
Porsche Cars sues Fla. dealership over trade secrets
By Christopher Seward
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Atlanta-based Porsche Cars North America is suing a Florida dealership, accusing it of secretly recording trade secrets about upcoming 2014 and 2015 vehicles during an Atlanta conference and derailing marketing plans for the vehicles’ roll-out. The suit filed in Fulton County Superior Court against Pompano Beach-based Champion Porsche seeks unspecified damages. Porsche Cars is the exclusive importer of Porsche sports cars and SUVs for the United States.
Spokesman Bernd Harling would not say how the company’s marketing plans have been affected by Champion’s actions. Champion General Manager Tony Sciple did not return calls for comment.
In its lawsuit filed in Fulton County Superior Court, Porsche Cars said it held a marketing conference on Sept. 23 at the W Hotel in Atlanta for dealers, during which highly confidential and proprietary information was disclosed about upcoming Porsche models. The information dealt with design, engineering, pricing, product launch and marketing strategy for 2014 Boxter GTS, Cayman GTS, 911 Targa and Targa S and 2015 Macan.
Porsche Cars said it discloses the information so dealers can get a head start in developing their own marketing strategies. The company said it did not plan to release the information publicly until 2014, but three days after the event, images from Porsche Cars’ PowerPoint presentation began appearing on Champion’s website and the personal sites of two of its representatives who had attended the Atlanta “Grass Roots Meeting.” Porsche Cars said the two Champion staffers apparently used “a tablet or other handheld personal computing device” to record renderings of car models and other information.
The company said Champion complied with its Sept. 27 demand to take the material down from the websites but by that time details were already being reported on more than 40 websites. “The damage had already been done,” the lawsuit said.
The company said the spread of the material was impossible to contain even though it promptly sent out take-down notices citing the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Porsche Cars said Champion had a duty to maintain the confidentiality of the conference and that the material posted was covered by the Georgia Trade Secrets Act."
09-15-2018, 09:09 AM
#843
Three Wheelin'
You speak as if you’re an attorney. Maybe you right. Maybe PCNA has zero liability in this and they should stay as far away as they can. What about when the 10 or so guys teamed up and visited the executives on the past generation GT3 engine failures? Do you know what ended up happening? Porsche stepped up, probably because they were concerned about the brand and the consumer. Everyone has an opinion on the subject. My opinion is vastly different than yours.
Dan (hopes you get a GT3)
09-15-2018, 09:13 AM
#844
Race Director
International news ..
https://www.autoblog.nl/nieuws/porsc...-orders-114687
Still, the best written article yet. Great job KYLE!
http://www.thedrive.com/news/23576/a...buyer-deposits
*** All articles and details have been updated on page one of this thread ***
https://www.autoblog.nl/nieuws/porsc...-orders-114687
Still, the best written article yet. Great job KYLE!
http://www.thedrive.com/news/23576/a...buyer-deposits
*** All articles and details have been updated on page one of this thread ***
09-15-2018, 09:23 AM
#845
It is clear that some franchised Porsche dealers no longer just sell and service vehicles.
A secondary market in the sale and servicing of ‘allocations’ has gradually developed.
Many players at many levels, motivated by greed, have systematically restricted the distribution of allocations to maximize profit.
Like the 2008 mortgage market, a bubble in ADMs has developed.
This is just a leading indicator that a correction lies ahead.
(Remember: House Prices Always Rise)
A secondary market in the sale and servicing of ‘allocations’ has gradually developed.
Many players at many levels, motivated by greed, have systematically restricted the distribution of allocations to maximize profit.
Like the 2008 mortgage market, a bubble in ADMs has developed.
This is just a leading indicator that a correction lies ahead.
(Remember: House Prices Always Rise)
Last edited by Bartleby7334; 09-15-2018 at 09:34 AM. Reason: Grammar and historical reference
09-15-2018, 09:35 AM
#846
‘if what you say is true sir, then Champion will not only offer the stolen money back, they should also do whatever it takes to find the victims the car they ordered. I’m speaking as a victim. Largest dealer in the world right. That should be no problem for PCNA and Champion to figure out.
09-15-2018, 09:36 AM
#847
I'm in the camp that ADM's had very little to do with the fraud perpetrated here. It is a red herring. The real issue was the accepted practice of taking large deposits without controls in place. ( sure the ADM and demand/supply imbalance may have fostered the deposit practice but it is a separate issue.)
In retrospect, it appears it was way to easy for a dedicated "lone" wolf to fake documentation and collect funds. Obvious that SS must have known eventually this was not going to end well and hewould need to flee. Even with tighter controls, it may have been relatively easy for somebody willing to "take the money and run" to pull something like this off for some period of time. It was just too easy to keep the whole thing of the company books.
Sure you can require multiple signatures....but this guy would have faked all of that, if necessary. Short of getting direct confirmation directly from PAG or PCNA that couldn't be faked there are a lot of issues with taking large deposits. It is a big magnet for unsavory types. Wall Street has a lot of controls because everybody knows a lot of money attracts a lot of snakes. Champion mgt. seems to have been lax with the warning signs and turning another cheek seems to have been a foolish decision regarding past actions. I don't have lot of sympathy for Champion Management, they didn't make the hard decision and boot a rogue and corrupt employee sooner rather than later. I don't know if they kept him on out of personal greed because of his sales record or they felt sympathetic to his personal financial woes. Either way is was bad judgement.
In retrospect, it appears it was way to easy for a dedicated "lone" wolf to fake documentation and collect funds. Obvious that SS must have known eventually this was not going to end well and hewould need to flee. Even with tighter controls, it may have been relatively easy for somebody willing to "take the money and run" to pull something like this off for some period of time. It was just too easy to keep the whole thing of the company books.
Sure you can require multiple signatures....but this guy would have faked all of that, if necessary. Short of getting direct confirmation directly from PAG or PCNA that couldn't be faked there are a lot of issues with taking large deposits. It is a big magnet for unsavory types. Wall Street has a lot of controls because everybody knows a lot of money attracts a lot of snakes. Champion mgt. seems to have been lax with the warning signs and turning another cheek seems to have been a foolish decision regarding past actions. I don't have lot of sympathy for Champion Management, they didn't make the hard decision and boot a rogue and corrupt employee sooner rather than later. I don't know if they kept him on out of personal greed because of his sales record or they felt sympathetic to his personal financial woes. Either way is was bad judgement.
09-15-2018, 09:42 AM
#848
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The victims need to eventually need to get their money back, but no one is “owed” a car. Lots of other people around who want one and haven’t been able to get one, and didn’t make the mistake of trying to jump the line by paying a large deposit.
Last edited by Manifold; 09-15-2018 at 10:01 AM.
09-15-2018, 09:50 AM
#849
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I'm going to Champion today to see what's going on and decide whether or not to cancel my Turbo S November build. This whole mess stinks like old fish. I find it hard to believe that management was completely unaware of these fraudulent activities and at the least had to be involved with tax evasion to some extent with these ADM's. Hard to believe this ******* wasn't fired 2 years ago. Unless they really convince me they are doing everything in their power to make things right for the victims, I'm taking my business elsewhere.
09-15-2018, 09:57 AM
#850
Burning Brakes
i hope that whole thing wipes the brokers of the planet .. and i also hope they all get named in the law
suit as well .. as they are the culprit of it in the first place ?.. they all lined their pockets ..
suit as well .. as they are the culprit of it in the first place ?.. they all lined their pockets ..
09-15-2018, 09:58 AM
#851
Race Director
I hear they're welcoming Champion customers with open arms.
They should start a promotion. Don't just be a Champion, be a LEGEND!
$2,000.00 instant credit on any new Porsche!
*** my idea
https://www.porschewestbroward.com
They should start a promotion. Don't just be a Champion, be a LEGEND!
$2,000.00 instant credit on any new Porsche!
*** my idea
https://www.porschewestbroward.com
09-15-2018, 09:58 AM
#852
‘if what you say is true sir, then Champion will not only offer the stolen money back, they should also do whatever it takes to find the victims the car they ordered. I’m speaking as a victim. Largest dealer in the world right. That should be no problem for PCNA and Champion to figure out.
09-15-2018, 10:06 AM
#853
Race Car
I can’t beleive so many of these posts where people think this is just one man on a mission. Are people really that naive in this world. I guess the truth will come out but one man didn’t figure out a way to steal $2.5 million. You guys are all nuts. The truth will come out but my guess is Champion surely knew and is absolutely liable especially based on past history of this guy and to think they are just the innocent one here, wrong. Other sales people absolutely knew, no way a fellow worker is pulling in $2.5m and there was complete silence. The broker network, those rats will come out. PNCA while EVERYONE is defending them, sorry then knew. Again this isn’t 1 or 2 allocations and deals being snuck through. This is $2.5m worth of deals. All the rats will get exposed and in 5 years we will be watching an awesome show on dateline all about this web of deception.
Greed makes people do crazy things and this was a web of greed by all. Lastly those trying to defer this away from ADM talk, you are also nuts. If it wasn’t for ADMs this greed of a money grab would not have happened. For those affected, bummer. Hope you get your money back but you also have some liability in this. You had to smell something fishy along the way and again to think money was going to get you in front of the line, again greed. Greed is to blame for this mess.
Greed makes people do crazy things and this was a web of greed by all. Lastly those trying to defer this away from ADM talk, you are also nuts. If it wasn’t for ADMs this greed of a money grab would not have happened. For those affected, bummer. Hope you get your money back but you also have some liability in this. You had to smell something fishy along the way and again to think money was going to get you in front of the line, again greed. Greed is to blame for this mess.
09-15-2018, 10:18 AM
#854
Yes. Story below. Looks like a culture of deceit at that dealership.
Updated: 5:04 p.m. Monday, Nov. 11, 2013 | Posted: 4:50 p.m. Monday, Nov. 11, 2013
Porsche Cars sues Fla. dealership over trade secrets
By Christopher Seward
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Atlanta-based Porsche Cars North America is suing a Florida dealership, accusing it of secretly recording trade secrets about upcoming 2014 and 2015 vehicles during an Atlanta conference and derailing marketing plans for the vehicles’ roll-out. The suit filed in Fulton County Superior Court against Pompano Beach-based Champion Porsche seeks unspecified damages. Porsche Cars is the exclusive importer of Porsche sports cars and SUVs for the United States.
Spokesman Bernd Harling would not say how the company’s marketing plans have been affected by Champion’s actions. Champion General Manager Tony Sciple did not return calls for comment.
In its lawsuit filed in Fulton County Superior Court, Porsche Cars said it held a marketing conference on Sept. 23 at the W Hotel in Atlanta for dealers, during which highly confidential and proprietary information was disclosed about upcoming Porsche models. The information dealt with design, engineering, pricing, product launch and marketing strategy for 2014 Boxter GTS, Cayman GTS, 911 Targa and Targa S and 2015 Macan.
Porsche Cars said it discloses the information so dealers can get a head start in developing their own marketing strategies. The company said it did not plan to release the information publicly until 2014, but three days after the event, images from Porsche Cars’ PowerPoint presentation began appearing on Champion’s website and the personal sites of two of its representatives who had attended the Atlanta “Grass Roots Meeting.” Porsche Cars said the two Champion staffers apparently used “a tablet or other handheld personal computing device” to record renderings of car models and other information.
The company said Champion complied with its Sept. 27 demand to take the material down from the websites but by that time details were already being reported on more than 40 websites. “The damage had already been done,” the lawsuit said.
The company said the spread of the material was impossible to contain even though it promptly sent out take-down notices citing the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Porsche Cars said Champion had a duty to maintain the confidentiality of the conference and that the material posted was covered by the Georgia Trade Secrets Act."
Updated: 5:04 p.m. Monday, Nov. 11, 2013 | Posted: 4:50 p.m. Monday, Nov. 11, 2013
Porsche Cars sues Fla. dealership over trade secrets
By Christopher Seward
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Atlanta-based Porsche Cars North America is suing a Florida dealership, accusing it of secretly recording trade secrets about upcoming 2014 and 2015 vehicles during an Atlanta conference and derailing marketing plans for the vehicles’ roll-out. The suit filed in Fulton County Superior Court against Pompano Beach-based Champion Porsche seeks unspecified damages. Porsche Cars is the exclusive importer of Porsche sports cars and SUVs for the United States.
Spokesman Bernd Harling would not say how the company’s marketing plans have been affected by Champion’s actions. Champion General Manager Tony Sciple did not return calls for comment.
In its lawsuit filed in Fulton County Superior Court, Porsche Cars said it held a marketing conference on Sept. 23 at the W Hotel in Atlanta for dealers, during which highly confidential and proprietary information was disclosed about upcoming Porsche models. The information dealt with design, engineering, pricing, product launch and marketing strategy for 2014 Boxter GTS, Cayman GTS, 911 Targa and Targa S and 2015 Macan.
Porsche Cars said it discloses the information so dealers can get a head start in developing their own marketing strategies. The company said it did not plan to release the information publicly until 2014, but three days after the event, images from Porsche Cars’ PowerPoint presentation began appearing on Champion’s website and the personal sites of two of its representatives who had attended the Atlanta “Grass Roots Meeting.” Porsche Cars said the two Champion staffers apparently used “a tablet or other handheld personal computing device” to record renderings of car models and other information.
The company said Champion complied with its Sept. 27 demand to take the material down from the websites but by that time details were already being reported on more than 40 websites. “The damage had already been done,” the lawsuit said.
The company said the spread of the material was impossible to contain even though it promptly sent out take-down notices citing the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. Porsche Cars said Champion had a duty to maintain the confidentiality of the conference and that the material posted was covered by the Georgia Trade Secrets Act."
09-15-2018, 10:21 AM
#855
Banned
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I wonder if, and when, our Moderators, will start pulling down the broker's ads in our Classifieds, for some of these GT car purchases and allocations????