GT car / Salesman - Shiraaz Sookralli - Champion Porsche's VP of Marketing
09-14-2018, 01:01 AM
#511
Burning Brakes
Scenario 100:
Owner has massive life insurance, dealer is struggling to stay afloat and takes his own life in accidental form.
Scenario 101:
Girlfriend and the subject on this thread in association.
Scenario 102:
Question the newly inherited owners, Life insurance plus free full ownership
Scenario 103:
New owners (sons) find about the alleged scam the subject on this thread is on, and subject flees.
I can throw scenarios at will while most people focus on a single scenario and Civil court case filings (like you have never seen the absurdity of lots of civil court case filings).
...on a personal note, except the girlfriend, Wagner and Wood, I met (past) and/or know (present) all of the parties I mentioned, I also know their lawyer. It is a very unfortunate situation, the $2.5mm can be recovered, Champion Porsche will stay in business, but Dave Maraj has sadly past away, and he deserves a lot of respect for all the actions, support and philanthropy he consistently carried as a successful business owner. There are a lot of hard working people at Champion, and they are being negatively affected.
Blaming an entire organization of marketing, parts, service, new car sales, used car sales, and their giving for the community on a single individual is as simple as blaming the people from countries oppressed by a dictator.
Owner has massive life insurance, dealer is struggling to stay afloat and takes his own life in accidental form.
Scenario 101:
Girlfriend and the subject on this thread in association.
Scenario 102:
Question the newly inherited owners, Life insurance plus free full ownership
Scenario 103:
New owners (sons) find about the alleged scam the subject on this thread is on, and subject flees.
I can throw scenarios at will while most people focus on a single scenario and Civil court case filings (like you have never seen the absurdity of lots of civil court case filings).
...on a personal note, except the girlfriend, Wagner and Wood, I met (past) and/or know (present) all of the parties I mentioned, I also know their lawyer. It is a very unfortunate situation, the $2.5mm can be recovered, Champion Porsche will stay in business, but Dave Maraj has sadly past away, and he deserves a lot of respect for all the actions, support and philanthropy he consistently carried as a successful business owner. There are a lot of hard working people at Champion, and they are being negatively affected.
Blaming an entire organization of marketing, parts, service, new car sales, used car sales, and their giving for the community on a single individual is as simple as blaming the people from countries oppressed by a dictator.
09-14-2018, 01:02 AM
#512
SJW, a Carin' kinda guy
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Jack,
Seems like he may have altered your build to “sell” the car to someone else and the build is someone else’s choice of options.
I am sorry you got got caught up in this.
Seems like he may have altered your build to “sell” the car to someone else and the build is someone else’s choice of options.
I am sorry you got got caught up in this.
09-14-2018, 01:02 AM
#513
Instructor
09-14-2018, 01:05 AM
#514
@Jackmac I feel like that was him using the same allocation for multiple builds and changing it so he could show another customer. That second build was probably another customer's but he had to tie it to a real allocation to make it look legit. Just a theory.
09-14-2018, 01:05 AM
#515
SJW, a Carin' kinda guy
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
My dealer told me to buy a Porsche or three and I could have my GT3 at sticker. I said, ok, what can I get on trade 30 seconds from now? He laughed. So I just negotiated to pay the money the dealer wanted to offset the losses on the cars he wanted me to buy.
09-14-2018, 01:11 AM
#516
Race Director
I say we leave the deceased owner scenario out of the discussions. Getting too much into conspiracy theories that likely have ZERO to do with Shiraaz and his fraud. Don't want us sounding like crack pots and losing credibility.
Shiraaz is a separate story on its own.
Champion Porsche has been a VERY successful and lucrative business for many years. They although are handling this fraud in all the wrong ways. They'll learn their lesson.
Watching this unfold myself ....
Shiraaz is a separate story on its own.
Champion Porsche has been a VERY successful and lucrative business for many years. They although are handling this fraud in all the wrong ways. They'll learn their lesson.
Watching this unfold myself ....
Last edited by STG; 09-14-2018 at 01:37 AM.
09-14-2018, 01:37 AM
#517
Trust me they are listening. They just want to bury their head in the sand just like they do when they know this is and has been going on all the while when AP launches the .2 he lies to all in that he states they will produce enough to get anyone that wants one in a GT car. They created this mess and I hope not only does Champion pay but so does PCNA. When the lawsuits make it up to them, they will finally get involved.
Good. The more views, the more media, the more press the better. It was already BS with the dealers, ADMs/GT cars, the overall experience, and then this surfaces. Hopefully time to pay the piper for PCNA and Champion, no mercy
09-14-2018, 01:57 AM
#518
That may have been the case in the past but now that Ferrari is a public company, they encourage new owners to purchase less coveted models like the Lusso and Portofino before speccing a 488 Spider/812. It's still an ADM if you're coerced into getting a model you don't want but at least you get to drive around in a new Ferrari while waiting for 1 year or so for your 488 Spider to be delivered. With Porsche that ADM is flushed down the toilet.
I guess the question is would you rather pay a $50K ADM to get a .2 GT3 RS and have nothing to show for it or get a new Macan? You spend $50K either way to get your RS allocation.
I guess the question is would you rather pay a $50K ADM to get a .2 GT3 RS and have nothing to show for it or get a new Macan? You spend $50K either way to get your RS allocation.
Pick your our poison. The buyer gets fleeced either way.
09-14-2018, 03:03 AM
#519
Starts at the top? $2.5m in stolen deposits ... coffee money that PCNA should simply refund to consumers as a goodwill gesture.
Reuters August 21 2018
Volkswagen Chief Executive Herbert Diess was told about the existence of cheating software in cars two months before regulators blew the whistle on a multi-billion exhaust emissions scandal, German magazine Der Spiegel said.
Responding to the magazine report, the carmaker reiterated on Saturday that the management board had not violated its disclosure duties, and had decided to not inform investors earlier because they had failed to grasp the scope of the potential fines and penalties.
Der Spiegel’s story, based on recently unsealed documents from the Braunschweig prosecutor’s office, raises questions about whether VW informed investors in a timely manner about the scope of a scandal which it said has cost it more than $27 billion in penalties and fines.
... to this I add (no pun intended): VW ranked No. 4 on the biggest-spenders list, with its ad spending in 2015 totaling $6.6 billion and in 2016, the car producer spent 6.7 billion U.S. dollars on advertising.
Think about the mentality at work here if they were to allow this to gain any traction whatsoever over $2.5m (unless its really a lot more at stake) - it would cost them a lot more rep than $2.5m could replace in ad buys.
Reuters August 21 2018
Volkswagen Chief Executive Herbert Diess was told about the existence of cheating software in cars two months before regulators blew the whistle on a multi-billion exhaust emissions scandal, German magazine Der Spiegel said.
Responding to the magazine report, the carmaker reiterated on Saturday that the management board had not violated its disclosure duties, and had decided to not inform investors earlier because they had failed to grasp the scope of the potential fines and penalties.
Der Spiegel’s story, based on recently unsealed documents from the Braunschweig prosecutor’s office, raises questions about whether VW informed investors in a timely manner about the scope of a scandal which it said has cost it more than $27 billion in penalties and fines.
... to this I add (no pun intended): VW ranked No. 4 on the biggest-spenders list, with its ad spending in 2015 totaling $6.6 billion and in 2016, the car producer spent 6.7 billion U.S. dollars on advertising.
Think about the mentality at work here if they were to allow this to gain any traction whatsoever over $2.5m (unless its really a lot more at stake) - it would cost them a lot more rep than $2.5m could replace in ad buys.
09-14-2018, 03:27 AM
#520
Starts at the top? $2.5m in stolen deposits ... coffee money that PCNA should simply refund to consumers as a goodwill gesture.
Reuters August 21 2018
Volkswagen Chief Executive Herbert Diess was told about the existence of cheating software in cars two months before regulators blew the whistle on a multi-billion exhaust emissions scandal, German magazine Der Spiegel said.
Responding to the magazine report, the carmaker reiterated on Saturday that the management board had not violated its disclosure duties, and had decided to not inform investors earlier because they had failed to grasp the scope of the potential fines and penalties.
Der Spiegel’s story, based on recently unsealed documents from the Braunschweig prosecutor’s office, raises questions about whether VW informed investors in a timely manner about the scope of a scandal which it said has cost it more than $27 billion in penalties and fines.
... to this I add (no pun intended): VW ranked No. 4 on the biggest-spenders list, with its ad spending in 2015 totaling $6.6 billion and in 2016, the car producer spent 6.7 billion U.S. dollars on advertising.
Think about the mentality at work here if they were to allow this to gain any traction whatsoever over $2.5m (unless its really a lot more at stake) - it would cost them a lot more rep than $2.5m could replace in ad buys.
Reuters August 21 2018
Volkswagen Chief Executive Herbert Diess was told about the existence of cheating software in cars two months before regulators blew the whistle on a multi-billion exhaust emissions scandal, German magazine Der Spiegel said.
Responding to the magazine report, the carmaker reiterated on Saturday that the management board had not violated its disclosure duties, and had decided to not inform investors earlier because they had failed to grasp the scope of the potential fines and penalties.
Der Spiegel’s story, based on recently unsealed documents from the Braunschweig prosecutor’s office, raises questions about whether VW informed investors in a timely manner about the scope of a scandal which it said has cost it more than $27 billion in penalties and fines.
... to this I add (no pun intended): VW ranked No. 4 on the biggest-spenders list, with its ad spending in 2015 totaling $6.6 billion and in 2016, the car producer spent 6.7 billion U.S. dollars on advertising.
Think about the mentality at work here if they were to allow this to gain any traction whatsoever over $2.5m (unless its really a lot more at stake) - it would cost them a lot more rep than $2.5m could replace in ad buys.
Actually, like the Kaepnernick commercials, this could actually enhance their brand. If run of the mill Joe and Jane hear about people paying huge deposits/premiums for these GT cars that they might not have been aware of (because which standard Panamera or Cayenne person is ?), it might actually increase desirability. Trying to gauge human behavior/reaction is a total fallacy.
09-14-2018, 04:40 AM
#521
Race Director
Originally Posted by Norcalgt3
Actually, like the Kaepnernick commercials, this could actually enhance their brand. If run of the mill Joe and Jane hear about people paying huge deposits/premiums for these GT cars that they might not have been aware of (because which standard Panamera or Cayenne person is ?), it might actually increase desirability. Trying to gauge human behavior/reaction is a total fallacy.
This story here will NOT work in Champions favor, although the ones who will really care are the sports car buyers. Doubt your average Macan, Cayenne, or Panny buyer will even pay attention or care.
It's the enthusiast community who should have an issue with this whole story. The average Joe or Jane won't even understand it unless it really goes viral.
Either way, BAD PR for Porsche and Champion big time.
09-14-2018, 05:16 AM
#522
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by Bartleby7334
I have a devious mind... here’s how I’d induce a dealer and a customer to commit this crime. Like any good ‘broker’... LOL
< note: for entertainment ONLY. Do NOT do this kids! >
1. Offer customer car if they will agree to $X ADM upfront.
2. Have customer write check for $X to my dummy corporation (with a name similar to the dealership so they are not suspicious).
3. Tell dealership ‘customer agreed to $Y ADM upfront’ ($Y << $X), as long as the paperwork says @MSRP so customer won’t have to pay tax on ADM.
4. Put allocation into system in customer’s name.
5. Dealership delivers car to customer, neglecting to reflect $Y ADM on sales paperwork (customer doesn’t complain because otherwise they will pay extra tax on what they think is $X but Dealership thinks is $Y.
6. Someone at dealership keeps $Y for themselves.
6. I keep $X - $Y for myself.
ADM stinks. It’s not free market capitalism, it’s asymmetric information flow that allows scams like this to fleece the sheep.
< note: for entertainment ONLY. Do NOT do this kids! >
1. Offer customer car if they will agree to $X ADM upfront.
2. Have customer write check for $X to my dummy corporation (with a name similar to the dealership so they are not suspicious).
3. Tell dealership ‘customer agreed to $Y ADM upfront’ ($Y << $X), as long as the paperwork says @MSRP so customer won’t have to pay tax on ADM.
4. Put allocation into system in customer’s name.
5. Dealership delivers car to customer, neglecting to reflect $Y ADM on sales paperwork (customer doesn’t complain because otherwise they will pay extra tax on what they think is $X but Dealership thinks is $Y.
6. Someone at dealership keeps $Y for themselves.
6. I keep $X - $Y for myself.
ADM stinks. It’s not free market capitalism, it’s asymmetric information flow that allows scams like this to fleece the sheep.
Bingo! We could probably confirm this by asking if any of the victims paid more than their ADM to the fake account?
So under normal circumstances with this scam the victims do actually get their cars and at the price they were happy to pay for them. It's just that the individual is getting all or most of the ADM. it's just the same as brown paper bags or gifts or what have you and is probably pretty common.
This guy has possibly escalated to taking deposits for cars that won't get delivered and then running off with the money.
Ok actually it also escalated into taking multiple deposits on the same car and changing the spec while still possible to be able to convince each customer it was their car. This obviously went wrong sometimes as customers have seen their cars with wrong spec.
09-14-2018, 08:12 AM
#523
Bingo! We could probably confirm this by asking if any of the victims paid more than their ADM to the fake account?
So under normal circumstances with this scam the victims do actually get their cars and at the price they were happy to pay for them. It's just that the individual is getting all or most of the ADM. it's just the same as brown paper bags or gifts or what have you and is probably pretty common.
This guy has possibly escalated to taking deposits for cars that won't get delivered and then running off with the money.
Ok actually it also escalated into taking multiple deposits on the same car and changing the spec while still possible to be able to convince each customer it was their car. This obviously went wrong sometimes as customers have seen their cars with wrong spec.
So under normal circumstances with this scam the victims do actually get their cars and at the price they were happy to pay for them. It's just that the individual is getting all or most of the ADM. it's just the same as brown paper bags or gifts or what have you and is probably pretty common.
This guy has possibly escalated to taking deposits for cars that won't get delivered and then running off with the money.
Ok actually it also escalated into taking multiple deposits on the same car and changing the spec while still possible to be able to convince each customer it was their car. This obviously went wrong sometimes as customers have seen their cars with wrong spec.
So, if the money ends up in two different pockets, then perhaps the IRS would be interested in both parties returns for the last few years? How would a company book that cash flow? I know nothing of these things.
09-14-2018, 09:08 AM
#524
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by Keadog
So, if the money ends up in two different pockets, then perhaps the IRS would be interested in both parties returns for the last few years? How would a company book that cash flow? I know nothing of these things.
When the car is delivered it's sold and papered at the price Champion thinks the car was sold at. Neither Champion or the customer would know the difference and the salesman walks away with the deposit in their bank account.
This could go on for years undetected assuming the salesman can control the situation long enough. Fast forward a few years and the salesman needs more money. Now he goes further by "selling" the same car more than once. Now they are going to get caught. But they need the money and it just keeps getting worse until they are caught.
Unfortunately for the 99.9% of the employees at the dealership this is going to impact them to some degree. However as has been stated most buyers will never know this even happened. I hope this turns out ok for everyone involved except for the individual(s) responsible for the fraud.
09-14-2018, 09:15 AM
#525
Rennlist Member
Is there any word on the whereabouts of Shiraaz? Any leads been heard of?