GT car / Salesman - Shiraaz Sookralli - Champion Porsche's VP of Marketing
09-12-2018, 06:43 PM
#286
Maybe. If it's one client, maybe this guy was BS'ing his bosses about the situation and they bought it.
We're all making assumptions here. The temptation by many is to pile on and know the dealer knew about this for a while. Knowing how businesses work, I'm willing to bet that less was known than most people think. It's usually the way.
But no one really knows and we're all guessing.
Either way this situation is some distribution of amusing, fascinating, sad, maddening and plain out unbelievable.
We're all making assumptions here. The temptation by many is to pile on and know the dealer knew about this for a while. Knowing how businesses work, I'm willing to bet that less was known than most people think. It's usually the way.
But no one really knows and we're all guessing.
Either way this situation is some distribution of amusing, fascinating, sad, maddening and plain out unbelievable.
09-12-2018, 06:49 PM
#287
Rennlist Member
Who knows what all the facts are and the real situation is. It could just be a high level rogue employee with too much power. He sounds like someone who brought in a lot of business for the company so was really trusted. The temptation was probably too great to see all these GT cars going for well over msrp and the feeding frenzy. Hopefully all parties including the dealership, clients, and the alleged mastermind get their due.
09-12-2018, 06:53 PM
#289
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Who knows what all the facts are and the real situation is. It could just be a high level rogue employee with too much power. He sounds like someone who brought in a lot of business for the company so was really trusted. The temptation was probably too great to see all these GT cars going for well over msrp and the feeding frenzy. Hopefully all parties including the dealership, clients, and the alleged mastermind get their due.
09-12-2018, 07:01 PM
#290
The Washington Post will surely cover it. I can see the headline now.
"PORSCHE DEALER NEAR TRUMP'S MAR-A-LARGO SCAMS POTENTIAL DONORS"
"PORSCHE DEALER NEAR TRUMP'S MAR-A-LARGO SCAMS POTENTIAL DONORS"
09-12-2018, 07:04 PM
#291
09-12-2018, 07:46 PM
#292
Rennlist Member
Maybe some of you can help me understand a few things that appear to be going over my head ...
1. How is it possible that so many customers were promised cars and not a single one came in in person and never talked to the sales manager? Or came in to check on their car's status on one of this guy's days off and when someone else tried to run the car through the system it didn't reveal the fact that it didn't exist? When I was waiting for my GT3 from my local dealer I was in there every few weeks talking to both my salesmen and the manager. And when I recently ordered another GT car from an out of town dealership I had email communications with the SM at the verified email several times before wiring any funds.
2. If they did talk to the sales manager, surety he/she would have noticed that there is no way they have that many customers for the amount of allocations they get, and surely they would have noticed that with all these customers there are no reflecting funds in the dealership's account to match all these people.
Unless this scumbag only did this with out of town customers, it is almost impossible to believe that no one at Champion didn't know about it. Either this guy had massive ***** and was incomprehensibly fortunate that a thousand things fell his way to pull this off, or he had cover from within the dealership. This is a classic case of this dealership are either incompetent or fraudulent, those are the only two inexcusable options, unless there's something I'm missing.
1. How is it possible that so many customers were promised cars and not a single one came in in person and never talked to the sales manager? Or came in to check on their car's status on one of this guy's days off and when someone else tried to run the car through the system it didn't reveal the fact that it didn't exist? When I was waiting for my GT3 from my local dealer I was in there every few weeks talking to both my salesmen and the manager. And when I recently ordered another GT car from an out of town dealership I had email communications with the SM at the verified email several times before wiring any funds.
2. If they did talk to the sales manager, surety he/she would have noticed that there is no way they have that many customers for the amount of allocations they get, and surely they would have noticed that with all these customers there are no reflecting funds in the dealership's account to match all these people.
Unless this scumbag only did this with out of town customers, it is almost impossible to believe that no one at Champion didn't know about it. Either this guy had massive ***** and was incomprehensibly fortunate that a thousand things fell his way to pull this off, or he had cover from within the dealership. This is a classic case of this dealership are either incompetent or fraudulent, those are the only two inexcusable options, unless there's something I'm missing.
09-12-2018, 08:21 PM
#293
Maybe some of you can help me understand a few things that appear to be going over my head ...
1. How is it possible that so many customers were promised cars and not a single one came in in person and never talked to the sales manager? Or came in to check on their car's status on one of this guy's days off and when someone else tried to run the car through the system it didn't reveal the fact that it didn't exist? When I was waiting for my GT3 from my local dealer I was in there every few weeks talking to both my salesmen and the manager. And when I recently ordered another GT car from an out of town dealership I had email communications with the SM at the verified email several times before wiring any funds.
2. If they did talk to the sales manager, surety he/she would have noticed that there is no way they have that many customers for the amount of allocations they get, and surely they would have noticed that with all these customers there are no reflecting funds in the dealership's account to match all these people.
Unless this scumbag only did this with out of town customers, it is almost impossible to believe that no one at Champion didn't know about it. Either this guy had massive ***** and was incomprehensibly fortunate that a thousand things fell his way to pull this off, or he had cover from within the dealership. This is a classic case of this dealership are either incompetent or fraudulent, those are the only two inexcusable options, unless there's something I'm missing.
1. How is it possible that so many customers were promised cars and not a single one came in in person and never talked to the sales manager? Or came in to check on their car's status on one of this guy's days off and when someone else tried to run the car through the system it didn't reveal the fact that it didn't exist? When I was waiting for my GT3 from my local dealer I was in there every few weeks talking to both my salesmen and the manager. And when I recently ordered another GT car from an out of town dealership I had email communications with the SM at the verified email several times before wiring any funds.
2. If they did talk to the sales manager, surety he/she would have noticed that there is no way they have that many customers for the amount of allocations they get, and surely they would have noticed that with all these customers there are no reflecting funds in the dealership's account to match all these people.
Unless this scumbag only did this with out of town customers, it is almost impossible to believe that no one at Champion didn't know about it. Either this guy had massive ***** and was incomprehensibly fortunate that a thousand things fell his way to pull this off, or he had cover from within the dealership. This is a classic case of this dealership are either incompetent or fraudulent, those are the only two inexcusable options, unless there's something I'm missing.
09-12-2018, 08:24 PM
#295
I have a devious mind... here’s how I’d induce a dealer and a customer to commit this crime. Like any good ‘broker’... LOL
< note: for entertainment ONLY. Do NOT do this kids! >
1. Offer customer car if they will agree to $X ADM upfront.
2. Have customer write check for $X to my dummy corporation (with a name similar to the dealership so they are not suspicious).
3. Tell dealership ‘customer agreed to $Y ADM upfront’ ($Y << $X), as long as the paperwork says @MSRP so customer won’t have to pay tax on ADM.
4. Put allocation into system in customer’s name.
5. Dealership delivers car to customer, neglecting to reflect $Y ADM on sales paperwork (customer doesn’t complain because otherwise they will pay extra tax on what they think is $X but Dealership thinks is $Y.
6. Someone at dealership keeps $Y for themselves.
6. I keep $X - $Y for myself.
ADM stinks. It’s not free market capitalism, it’s asymmetric information flow that allows scams like this to fleece the sheep.
< note: for entertainment ONLY. Do NOT do this kids! >
1. Offer customer car if they will agree to $X ADM upfront.
2. Have customer write check for $X to my dummy corporation (with a name similar to the dealership so they are not suspicious).
3. Tell dealership ‘customer agreed to $Y ADM upfront’ ($Y << $X), as long as the paperwork says @MSRP so customer won’t have to pay tax on ADM.
4. Put allocation into system in customer’s name.
5. Dealership delivers car to customer, neglecting to reflect $Y ADM on sales paperwork (customer doesn’t complain because otherwise they will pay extra tax on what they think is $X but Dealership thinks is $Y.
6. Someone at dealership keeps $Y for themselves.
6. I keep $X - $Y for myself.
ADM stinks. It’s not free market capitalism, it’s asymmetric information flow that allows scams like this to fleece the sheep.
09-12-2018, 08:29 PM
#296
I have a devious mind... here’s how I’d induce a dealer and a customer to commit this crime. Like any good ‘broker’... LOL
< note: for entertainment ONLY. Do NOT do this kids! >
1. Offer customer car if they will agree to $X ADM upfront.
2. Have customer write check for $X to my dummy corporation (with a name similar to the dealership so they are not suspicious).
3. Tell dealership ‘customer agreed to $Y ADM upfront’ ($Y << $X), as long as the paperwork says @MSRP so customer won’t have to pay tax on ADM.
4. Put allocation into system in customer’s name.
5. Dealership delivers car to customer, neglecting to reflect $Y ADM on sales paperwork (customer doesn’t complain because otherwise they will pay extra tax on what they think is $X but Dealership thinks is $Y.
6. Someone at dealership keeps $Y for themselves.
6. I keep $X - $Y for myself.
ADM stinks. It’s not free market capitalism, it’s asymmetric information flow that allows scams like this to fleece the sheep.
< note: for entertainment ONLY. Do NOT do this kids! >
1. Offer customer car if they will agree to $X ADM upfront.
2. Have customer write check for $X to my dummy corporation (with a name similar to the dealership so they are not suspicious).
3. Tell dealership ‘customer agreed to $Y ADM upfront’ ($Y << $X), as long as the paperwork says @MSRP so customer won’t have to pay tax on ADM.
4. Put allocation into system in customer’s name.
5. Dealership delivers car to customer, neglecting to reflect $Y ADM on sales paperwork (customer doesn’t complain because otherwise they will pay extra tax on what they think is $X but Dealership thinks is $Y.
6. Someone at dealership keeps $Y for themselves.
6. I keep $X - $Y for myself.
ADM stinks. It’s not free market capitalism, it’s asymmetric information flow that allows scams like this to fleece the sheep.
09-12-2018, 08:30 PM
#297
Rennlist Member
For all those folks that did get lucky enough to get a GT car after they paid a deposit to Champion Autosport, I would love to learn how the transaction was completed to purchase the car through Champion. This is where I think the dealership had some kind of insight as to what he was doing. They put too much trust in this rogue employee with a lack of controls and now it's come back to bite them in the behind.
I'm guessing the deposits were all ADM and he was pocketing the ADM and selling the cars for MSRP?
However, it seems unlikely that no one else in the dealership would be aware of a customer referencing a $100k deposit on a car sometime in the last year and 30 or so transactions?
09-12-2018, 08:31 PM
#298
Rennlist Member
A 'victim' explained it in the other thread - deposit for the ADM was made to the perp through Champion Autosport, car was not as ordered (sounds like an allocation Ponzi scheme), sale completed anyway through Champion Motorsport at MSRP.
09-12-2018, 08:37 PM
#299
Race Director
Originally Posted by 993KHTO
I posted it. Tired of people saying, "give Champion the benefit of the doubt."
The GM of the dealership should be fired. He's incompetent not picking up on this and keeping tabs on the allocations. There must have been MANY RED flags that anyone should have seen.
Giving him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't know, but should have known better.
09-12-2018, 08:42 PM
#300
Rennlist Member
I don't understand exactly what that means but obviously he did it in a convincing way from a customer's point of view.
Still hard to believe that no one at the dealership knew nothing about it.
I've said it before and I'll say it again ...
