GT car / Salesman - Shiraaz Sookralli - Champion Porsche's VP of Marketing
09-12-2018, 05:14 PM
#271
Three Wheelin'
Most people think a Porsche is a "dream" car and that includes a base Boxster and they have no clue what a GT car is. I told my wife about this, who has no interest in cars, and she didn't really seem to care. If murder is involved, sure, newsworthy and maybe a Dateline episode. Other than that, its a first world problem that affected a very small number of wealthy people. This type of fraud is occurring all over the place. Also most folks would never fathom paying MSRP for a car and a ADM is even crazier. Even in the auto world, this isn't mainstream, you need to dig even deeper for the "enthusiasts" who would care.
But I hear you, it's HUGE but only for car nuts like ourselves.
09-12-2018, 05:19 PM
#272
Probably because it affects 24 people that paid $100k as a deposit for a Porsche.
Most people think a Porsche is a "dream" car and that includes a base Boxster and they have no clue what a GT car is. I told my wife about this, who has no interest in cars, and she didn't really seem to care. If murder is involved, sure, newsworthy and maybe a Dateline episode. Other than that, its a first world problem that affected a very small number of wealthy people. This type of fraud is occurring all over the place. Also most folks would never fathom paying MSRP for a car and a ADM is even crazier. Even in the auto world, this isn't mainstream, you need to dig even deeper for the "enthusiasts" who would care.
But I hear you, it's HUGE but only for car nuts like ourselves.
Most people think a Porsche is a "dream" car and that includes a base Boxster and they have no clue what a GT car is. I told my wife about this, who has no interest in cars, and she didn't really seem to care. If murder is involved, sure, newsworthy and maybe a Dateline episode. Other than that, its a first world problem that affected a very small number of wealthy people. This type of fraud is occurring all over the place. Also most folks would never fathom paying MSRP for a car and a ADM is even crazier. Even in the auto world, this isn't mainstream, you need to dig even deeper for the "enthusiasts" who would care.
But I hear you, it's HUGE but only for car nuts like ourselves.
09-12-2018, 05:21 PM
#273
Because I negotiate my company's insurance every year and I've had this discussion with multiple brokers over many years. Crime/fraud insurance coverage is separate from standard commercial liability, it's expensive, and it has a number of exclusions, one of which is that it doesn't cover active fraud by owners or senior management. Any victim here thinking that there's going to be an easy payout on this from some insurance policy is fooling themselves. Oh, and another standard exclusion from coverage is damages from lawsuits...
Don’t believe I would want you negotiating any insurance policies In a business.
How about this simple scenario; car salesman lends out Car repeatedly to friends and than that friend runs over a teenager , killing her. You do realize a dealership with dozens of employees driving cars on public roads in of itself would present a vicarious situation. The other posters right, stop talking about things you don’t understand .
09-12-2018, 05:22 PM
#274
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
It's been posted here that at least one buyer made a deposit to the fictitious company yet received a car. I'd be willing to bet that this was the norm, rather than the exception at least until recently. If multiple buyers had not had cars delivered this situation would have gotten publicized fast. And based on the documentation posted, I don't think that this guy set this up just recently, took some $ and then didn't deliver 24 cars. I'd be willing to bet what he's really been doing has been marking up ADM's and then siphoning off all or part of those ADM's and processing orders for cars that were actually delivered to buyers. That way buyers are getting cars, Champion stays unaware to the situation and he is skimming money.
I also think that 24 buyers for $2.5 million is kind of skewed. An average deposit of $100k per? I know it's not unheard of but really? I'm willing to bet it's more buyers over longer period of time.
I'd also be willing to bet that the first that Champion knew of this Rampage deal was when they were served with the lawsuit. And who knows what happened after that? Must have been some very interesting conversations. They should have fired him then but didn't.
09-12-2018, 05:32 PM
#275
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Greed can cause people to make bad decisions. The sales guy was obviously greedy. The dealer probably saw ADM profits coming in because of this guy, and looked the other way when he did questionable things - don't ask, don't tell - though I very much doubt the dealer knew what was really going on. The buyers of these cars were also unwise to pony up so much money for cars before they were delivered - sometimes it's better not to ignore warning signs and take that kind of risk in order to get something like a hard to get car.
I doubt the dealer is going to write any checks any time soon. Too much money involved. They'll size up the situation, get the advice of their lawyers, and then figure out how to proceed. Maybe there'll be a settlement where both the dealer and the buyers take a hit.
I doubt the dealer is going to write any checks any time soon. Too much money involved. They'll size up the situation, get the advice of their lawyers, and then figure out how to proceed. Maybe there'll be a settlement where both the dealer and the buyers take a hit.
09-12-2018, 05:34 PM
#276
Been following this today. Crazy story, specially since they are a local dealer to me and I will be taking delivery of my GT3 there within the next few days. I've dealt with Champion for years and everything has always been above board. Never met Shiraaz. The whole situation completely sucks and should have never happened, but I'm sure that Champion will make things right with all customers affected through their dealing with that Shiraaz individual once investigation of total customers and losses is determined and verified.
09-12-2018, 05:34 PM
#277
Rennlist Member
The buyer thought they were dealing with Champion. Pretty good assumption that the issue was escalated above the salesman level when their $350k deposit did not result in a car...or full refund of said deposit...back in 2016. Wouldn't you say?
Assumption on your part. You really think that in two years there were no attempts to settle with Champion out of court?
Assumption on your part. You really think that in two years there were no attempts to settle with Champion out of court?
09-12-2018, 05:39 PM
#278
While it is an assumption, I would surely have escalated it myself if I were in that position.
09-12-2018, 05:40 PM
#279
I spoke to Alan the Attourney, and I hope others call him immediately he’s very approachable. Shriazz definitely had me wire funds into his fake Champion Autosports account and then months later had me wire into the Copan Motors Inc. Dba Champion Motorsports account. Everything was wrong about my deal.
09-12-2018, 06:10 PM
#280
Drifting
Probably because it affects 24 people that paid $100k as a deposit for a Porsche.
Most people think a Porsche is a "dream" car and that includes a base Boxster and they have no clue what a GT car is. I told my wife about this, who has no interest in cars, and she didn't really seem to care. If murder is involved, sure, newsworthy and maybe a Dateline episode. Other than that, its a first world problem that affected a very small number of wealthy people. This type of fraud is occurring all over the place. Also most folks would never fathom paying MSRP for a car and a ADM is even crazier. Even in the auto world, this isn't mainstream, you need to dig even deeper for the "enthusiasts" who would care.
But I hear you, it's HUGE but only for car nuts like ourselves.
Most people think a Porsche is a "dream" car and that includes a base Boxster and they have no clue what a GT car is. I told my wife about this, who has no interest in cars, and she didn't really seem to care. If murder is involved, sure, newsworthy and maybe a Dateline episode. Other than that, its a first world problem that affected a very small number of wealthy people. This type of fraud is occurring all over the place. Also most folks would never fathom paying MSRP for a car and a ADM is even crazier. Even in the auto world, this isn't mainstream, you need to dig even deeper for the "enthusiasts" who would care.
But I hear you, it's HUGE but only for car nuts like ourselves.
But honestly who drops $100k on a deposit?? As several have mentioned, they use these ADM tactics in the US cause they can! People are willing to pay it. We have seen the enemy and they is US!
Its a ****ty situation and they will find the guy at some point. Hopefully people get their money back from somewhere...
09-12-2018, 06:20 PM
#281
Race Director
Originally Posted by vern1
+1. No one cares that a bunch of rich guys got ripped off except for the rich guys and the rest of us that can sympathize. Were you expecting a CNN Breaking News??
A $2.5MM fraud is big news for the auto news outlets.
CNN?? They're too busy covering other worthless news.
09-12-2018, 06:25 PM
#282
Rennlist Member
one buyer made a deposit to the fictitious company yet received a car
There sounds like a substantial amount of fact to look at Co-mingling of funds between accounts. I bet SS tried to delay letting the scam get exposed to optimize his take and got caught up in the fake schedule overtaking the real one. In this case he had to pay the dealership the deposit of a car from that fake account and buyer then got a car. This would provide a payment path from the fake Champion to the Real Champion accounts. I am not a lawyer but I bet this path will become important in determining how much the dealership was involved in the scam.
Not necessarily. Assumption on your part.
Yeah, I bet this was what's going on. My thoughts and WAG analysis.
It's been posted here that at least one buyer made a deposit to the fictitious company yet received a car. I'd be willing to bet that this was the norm, rather than the exception at least until recently. If multiple buyers had not had cars delivered this situation would have gotten publicized fast. And based on the documentation posted, I don't think that this guy set this up just recently, took some $ and then didn't deliver 24 cars. I'd be willing to bet what he's really been doing has been marking up ADM's and then siphoning off all or part of those ADM's and processing orders for cars that were actually delivered to buyers. That way buyers are getting cars, Champion stays unaware to the situation and he is skimming money.
I also think that 24 buyers for $2.5 million is kind of skewed. An average deposit of $100k per? I know it's not unheard of but really? I'm willing to bet it's more buyers over longer period of time.
I'd also be willing to bet that the first that Champion knew of this Rampage deal was when they were served with the lawsuit. And who knows what happened after that? Must have been some very interesting conversations. They should have fired him then but didn't.
Yeah, I bet this was what's going on. My thoughts and WAG analysis.
It's been posted here that at least one buyer made a deposit to the fictitious company yet received a car. I'd be willing to bet that this was the norm, rather than the exception at least until recently. If multiple buyers had not had cars delivered this situation would have gotten publicized fast. And based on the documentation posted, I don't think that this guy set this up just recently, took some $ and then didn't deliver 24 cars. I'd be willing to bet what he's really been doing has been marking up ADM's and then siphoning off all or part of those ADM's and processing orders for cars that were actually delivered to buyers. That way buyers are getting cars, Champion stays unaware to the situation and he is skimming money.
I also think that 24 buyers for $2.5 million is kind of skewed. An average deposit of $100k per? I know it's not unheard of but really? I'm willing to bet it's more buyers over longer period of time.
I'd also be willing to bet that the first that Champion knew of this Rampage deal was when they were served with the lawsuit. And who knows what happened after that? Must have been some very interesting conversations. They should have fired him then but didn't.
09-12-2018, 06:28 PM
#283
Drifting
Arent you talking about FOX??
09-12-2018, 06:34 PM
#285
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The buyer thought they were dealing with Champion. Pretty good assumption that the issue was escalated above the salesman level when their $350k deposit did not result in a car...or full refund of said deposit...back in 2016. Wouldn't you say?
Assumption on your part. You really think that in two years there were no attempts to settle with Champion out of court?
Assumption on your part. You really think that in two years there were no attempts to settle with Champion out of court?
We're all making assumptions here. The temptation by many is to pile on and know the dealer knew about this for a while. Knowing how businesses work, I'm willing to bet that less was known than most people think. It's usually the way.
But no one really knows and we're all guessing.
Either way this situation is some distribution of amusing, fascinating, sad, maddening and plain out unbelievable.