GT car / Salesman - Shiraaz Sookralli - Champion Porsche's VP of Marketing
09-16-2018, 02:55 PM
#1066
Maybe I'm an optimist but imagine you are the top brass at Champion and this hits the fan. Don't you think you might need a few days to figure out what actually happened, consult a lawyer to figure out what you can and can't do, consult with PCNA as well and then figure out if you have the money and/or allocations to make these promises, weed thru the real customers and those trying to take advantage and separate wild rumor from fact?
Personally I wouldn't have made any statements before getting my ducks in a row either and I sure wouldn't let any employee speak out of turn or make any commitments to anyone until the circumstances were truly known. This is a big and complicated situation involving customers of means.
I don't think a couple days is tantamount to Champion running for the hills with money they never received or trying to weasel out of anything.
Personally I wouldn't have made any statements before getting my ducks in a row either and I sure wouldn't let any employee speak out of turn or make any commitments to anyone until the circumstances were truly known. This is a big and complicated situation involving customers of means.
I don't think a couple days is tantamount to Champion running for the hills with money they never received or trying to weasel out of anything.
Contradict yourself much? The egregious part is them still employing him so yes they are as guilty as the rest, sorry, plain and simple they should have fired the dude after the first issue. When they were aware and allowed him to still work there EGREGIOUS BEHAVIOR Now makes them guilty and just as bad as him. Yet they were just as greedy as him because he was bringing in the bacon.
I didn't make this personal about you. Don't understand why you're making it personal about me.
You are correct, everyone can have an opinion. Unfortunately one opinion, that Champion knew about this and sanctioned it for years, is being presented as fact. The actual facts show that this is possible, but it hasn't been proven yet. Personally I will wait until the facts come out before stating with certainty that "they knew".
Reading through the posts, it seems as though the mentality is "let's destroy this dealership" which is way beyond "let's help the victims get their money back". I'm very glad this has come to light, every single victim in this deserves their money back as well as an order slot in my opinion. And I'm very glad that this thread has helped accomplish that. Please don't put words in my mouth. But I don't think the business needs to be burned to the ground before we know all the facts. If it comes out that he was not a lone wolf, and that dealership higher ups knew about this, then yes, they deserve to be lambasted. Until then, I reserve judgement and have some sympathy for all the employees working there that had nothing to do with this.
You are correct, everyone can have an opinion. Unfortunately one opinion, that Champion knew about this and sanctioned it for years, is being presented as fact. The actual facts show that this is possible, but it hasn't been proven yet. Personally I will wait until the facts come out before stating with certainty that "they knew".
Reading through the posts, it seems as though the mentality is "let's destroy this dealership" which is way beyond "let's help the victims get their money back". I'm very glad this has come to light, every single victim in this deserves their money back as well as an order slot in my opinion. And I'm very glad that this thread has helped accomplish that. Please don't put words in my mouth. But I don't think the business needs to be burned to the ground before we know all the facts. If it comes out that he was not a lone wolf, and that dealership higher ups knew about this, then yes, they deserve to be lambasted. Until then, I reserve judgement and have some sympathy for all the employees working there that had nothing to do with this.
Porsche Dealer "Champion Porsche".
But please, make your check payable to Champion AutoSports.
This apparently didnt raise anyone curiosity?
Why would you make your check payable for your GT car to other than the Porsche Dealer legal name?
Good lesson, expensive but a good lesson for others.
And yes, I think I understand people are easily duped.
But please, make your check payable to Champion AutoSports.
This apparently didnt raise anyone curiosity?
Why would you make your check payable for your GT car to other than the Porsche Dealer legal name?
Good lesson, expensive but a good lesson for others.
And yes, I think I understand people are easily duped.
I'm 100% on the no mercy camp. There's no reason to put away the pitchforks. Since when giving back what you got caught stealing and saying sorry is "making people whole"?
Larger, more important companies w more employees went down for way smaller mistakes. These guys need to be done, for good. I'd definitely blame Porsche as well if they do not take away Champion's franchise after something like this. Being a big volume dealer shouldn't allow you to get away w stealing.
The victims don't owe Champion the differentiation between Shiraaz and Champion, as far as they knew, they were dealing w Champion; he was employed by Champion for a long time; was close w owner, managing family. They had no reason to be suspicious and check whether Champion Autosports was just another DBA for Champion/Copan or not. More people at Champion not knowing about this scam is extremely unlikely, and even if they weren't in on it, the incompetence it'd take to have this happen under their supervision is enough for them to be done. Retirement awaits.
I'll make sure that anyone I know who's remotely likely to buy a Porsche (or any car for that matter) knows about what Champion is all about. Posted it to my regional PCA group.
Agreed on the whole ADM game and ridiculous chasing of GT cars preparing the environment that'd be ripe for something like this. I try to go by a simple principle: whenever I have to "earn" giving someone my business, I walk. There are a lot of other sports cars out there guys.
Larger, more important companies w more employees went down for way smaller mistakes. These guys need to be done, for good. I'd definitely blame Porsche as well if they do not take away Champion's franchise after something like this. Being a big volume dealer shouldn't allow you to get away w stealing.
The victims don't owe Champion the differentiation between Shiraaz and Champion, as far as they knew, they were dealing w Champion; he was employed by Champion for a long time; was close w owner, managing family. They had no reason to be suspicious and check whether Champion Autosports was just another DBA for Champion/Copan or not. More people at Champion not knowing about this scam is extremely unlikely, and even if they weren't in on it, the incompetence it'd take to have this happen under their supervision is enough for them to be done. Retirement awaits.
I'll make sure that anyone I know who's remotely likely to buy a Porsche (or any car for that matter) knows about what Champion is all about. Posted it to my regional PCA group.
Agreed on the whole ADM game and ridiculous chasing of GT cars preparing the environment that'd be ripe for something like this. I try to go by a simple principle: whenever I have to "earn" giving someone my business, I walk. There are a lot of other sports cars out there guys.
09-16-2018, 03:00 PM
#1067
Rennlist Member
Agree and this will not be solved quickly.......obviously....there is no silver bullet.....months and possibly years of sorting out depending on what people harmed will want....
Last edited by abiazis; 09-16-2018 at 03:46 PM.
09-16-2018, 03:03 PM
#1068
Track Day
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To play a bit of a devil's advocate. If I (or anyone else on here) were to put themselves in the position of a dealership owner...wouldn't you want to maximize your profit as much as possible for your business? (within the confines of the law of course)
If I can sell a very limited product and I KNOW there are guys with very deep pockets willing to essentially bid up the price, would I not want to do that?
Again just playing devils advocate here. And we know there are guys who are worth 8 to 9+ figures who can drop 6 figure sums like it's nothing......not surprised there are all these ADMs....
09-16-2018, 03:07 PM
#1069
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I guarantee you that this thread will NEVER see a post by ANY dealer/official rep on RL. It's clear that in this sort of active legal/LEO investigation, any involved parties and also semi-related parties (other dealers) would be in their best interest to remain silent on these 3rd party media outlets and only release official statements approved by their lawyers.
09-16-2018, 03:08 PM
#1070
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Depends on how SS explained those dealings, and I suspect that his long-term relationship with the dealership and its owner swayed them in the direction of trusting him. My wife is VP in my company and I trust her 100% ...
09-16-2018, 03:19 PM
#1071
The Rebel
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Still missing all the info. No sense in making implications or drawing conclusions as at this point it’s nothing more than conjecture. Now if you have a theory (which it’s all anybody currently has) be sure to state it as such. Don’t muddy up the waters in an already murky situation.
The court of public opinion should be more prudent an reserve judgement.
Then again if it’s on the internets, it’s gotta be true...
The court of public opinion should be more prudent an reserve judgement.
Then again if it’s on the internets, it’s gotta be true...
09-16-2018, 03:20 PM
#1072
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09-16-2018, 03:23 PM
#1073
Perfect Angel
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Not really. I own a business. If God forbid something like this happened with one of my subs or someone 2-3-4-5 layers down, I would at least immediately contact every single client/customer impacted and at least let them know I am aware of the allegations being thrown against my company I worked hard to build, and that I would be consulting attorneys/police to fully vet any and all options? That they should be understandably upset but that I will do whatever I can to try and make things right? The only reason why I wouldn't do that immediately is if I had concern about admitting legal liability? Why would I be liable? Because maybe I did something wrong. Like continue to employ SS when I knew full well what a POS he was. That is Champion's fault and they should be held liable for gross negligence of some sort if not fraud
I'm not absolving Champion of their culpability and obligations to their clients that got screwed. Not even a little bit. It was their employee so they are on the hook.
I just don't think they've done anything wrong by getting more information before making any representations about what happened and how they would or could rectify it.
I'm also a contractor and if a client called me making accusations I would, before representing anything to the client, call the sub to get that side of the story and go put eyes on the situation myself. Imagine if my knee jerk reaction was to represent that I would take care of everything then found out the client wasn't telling the whole story or the sub had a legitimate reason for whatever happened. That happens all the time. Then I'm in a very awkward position. A worse one.
In this case you are talking about a lot of money and more than just one client and the "sub" has disappeared leaving you in the dark.
I have zero issue with their communication and they are responsible to make this right in my opinion.
09-16-2018, 03:33 PM
#1075
The Rebel
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Now here’s my THEORY:
He took (pun intended) the deposits for the highly coveted GT cars and never told the dealership he had done so. Champion received their allocations and they simply spec’d them however the dealer felt like (usually with higher MSRP). He then tells the customers who had given him a deposit with a specific build some BS story about not being able to build it correctly in the hopes they would take whatever he had available. Knowing how easily he could sell it to someone else and how much they wanted the cars, customers bought the BS and the cars.
Porsche is happy because Champion is selling a ton of cars
Champion is happy for the same reason and because they’re selling highly optioned cars.
Customers get over not getting the car they ordered but are happy because they got one of those highly coveted cars.
The scumbag is thrilled because he got the deposit for himself or so he thought. I hope they find him.
He took (pun intended) the deposits for the highly coveted GT cars and never told the dealership he had done so. Champion received their allocations and they simply spec’d them however the dealer felt like (usually with higher MSRP). He then tells the customers who had given him a deposit with a specific build some BS story about not being able to build it correctly in the hopes they would take whatever he had available. Knowing how easily he could sell it to someone else and how much they wanted the cars, customers bought the BS and the cars.
Porsche is happy because Champion is selling a ton of cars
Champion is happy for the same reason and because they’re selling highly optioned cars.
Customers get over not getting the car they ordered but are happy because they got one of those highly coveted cars.
The scumbag is thrilled because he got the deposit for himself or so he thought. I hope they find him.
09-16-2018, 03:38 PM
#1077
Rennlist Member
the information suggests Champion knew, he did it before 2 years ago and they were garnishing his wages, so they knew what he was capable of and knew how he did it. If they usually charge ADM on the car and suddenly some cars had no ADM so SS and the broker could pocket it, someone had to notice there unless they were in on it too. I suspect they didnt stop him or look harder (negligence) because he was a family member of sorts
09-16-2018, 03:41 PM
#1078
Nordschleife Master
This thread is great
I have a car coming from Champion in November...one bad apple doesn't make the entire dealership bad
Reminds me of 997 days and Eddie at RPW
I have a car coming from Champion in November...one bad apple doesn't make the entire dealership bad
Reminds me of 997 days and Eddie at RPW
09-16-2018, 03:47 PM
#1079
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It seems like that there is more than one bad apple. People who manage that entire dealership seemed to close an eye on SS's shady dealings. Having knowledge of someones bad practices (911R etc.) and not doing anything with it doesn't seem like a good part on the dealerships end, does it?