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We've seen that crack down really scare the kids away ...
Are you being facetious? (I ask, not to be a smartass, but because I'm unfamiliar it they indeed did crack down and whether it's working or not)
I remember reading that when Ferrari announced the 333SP. In order to discourage "collectorism," you had buy buy a package of racing spares along with the car: Spare engine, transmission, extra sets of wheels for rain tires, etc. pushing the price of the $600K (?) car to well over $1.5 Million.
24 consumers at $2.56 mil.....Who puts down a $100K deposit on a car?
Someone who really wants a GT car and is told the only way he/she can get one is by proving that he/she is a "real buyer". Sadly, dealerships can take advantage of people who want a limited product
A friend of mine put down two deposits for a GT3 MT Touring. One was at his local dealership, which I won't name. He was told that he was number 11 on "the list." The other was at Champion. Champion would give him an immediate allocation with a 5k premium. He was upset and asked for his deposit back. I told him that he may pay $5k over but he would get a car. No way was he going to pay over MSRP. He wanted his deposit back. HE GOT HIS DEPOSIT BACK WITHIN DAYS. The other local dealership has delivered between 15 and 20 GT3s since he gave them a deposit 20 months ago. Now he's number 7 on the list. Isn't 11 included in 15? Now they are telling him there will be no more GT3's. He called me yesterday to say he was sorry that he didn't take my advice and stick with Champion. He has his $5k back, no car and is now looking in the road test pre-owned market at $15-$20 over. THE POINT IS HE GAVE CHAMPION A DEPOSIT, ASKED FOR IT BACK, AND HAD IT RETURNED IN DAYS.
I've owned almost 60 Porsche's and I know many dealers in the US and some in Europe. Champion is by far, the BEST dealer I know. I bet CJ does a great job but have had not had the opportunity. My knowledge and relationship with Shiraaz was nothing more than a passing acknowledgement. To the best of my long history of experience, the sales, management and service personnel at Champion are knowledgeable, honest and true enthusiasts. When most Porsche Dealerships have gone the route of Toyota and you can't leave the premises without speaking to the finance manager, Champion remains an "old school" dealership. It's also a "crime" that the good people at Champion are now suffering because of this A-hole.
Shiraaz used his employment to commit a crime. No different that if you hired an exterminator to get rid of ants and they fleeced your home. I was at Champion today. Champion didn't take the money or have the money. But I can tell you they are working hard to resolve this disgusting crime.
The whole thing will be interesting as the truth starts to unravel. I have a sneaking suspicion that a few other people and entities will be exposed. This isn’t one mans scheme.
But how is the customer to know that control even exists if they deal with the salesman over the phone or via email? I am talking about out-of-state buyers. These are transactions that never show up anywhere.
Which is why I reiterate that Champion will likely have a hard time avoiding liability. The customer can reasonably rely on the representations of Champion’s employees unless he/she knows such claims are illegal, false or simply not credible. This isn’t a he said/she said story; there’s a likely a good paper trail in the form of canceled checks, build sheets, etc.
Really unfortunate for the duped customers, but let’s not bury the lead of a missing $2.5M by harping on ADMs and PAG/PCNA practices.
Re: #1. Nonsense. All Porsche has to do is add language to their franchise agreements that any dealer found to be accepting ADMs loses their allotment for, say, five years. And publicize it so any buyer who gets the shake down can drop a dime on the dealership.
ultimately my question is this, if the rate limiting step of 911 production is capacity in Zuffenhausen, why does Porsche build so few GT cars, they must make more profit on these cars that cost a lot more with not a lot more content in them
Re: #1. Nonsense. All Porsche has to do is add language to their franchise agreements that any dealer found to be accepting ADMs loses their allotment for, say, five years. And publicize it so any buyer who gets the shake down can drop a dime on the dealership.
Porsche can’t change franchise agreements with the effort of a Twitter post. Remember, Dealers have more influence with state franchise laws than the manufacturers. Why? Dealers are the constituents, not the factories. All politics are local, as always.
A friend of mine put down two deposits for a GT3 MT Touring. One was at his local dealership, which I won't name. He was told that he was number 11 on "the list." The other was at Champion. Champion would give him an immediate allocation with a 5k premium. He was upset and asked for his deposit back. I told him that he may pay $5k over but he would get a car. No way was he going to pay over MSRP. He wanted his deposit back. HE GOT HIS DEPOSIT BACK WITHIN DAYS. The other local dealership has delivered between 15 and 20 GT3s since he gave them a deposit 20 months ago. Now he's number 7 on the list. Isn't 11 included in 15? Now they are telling him there will be no more GT3's. He called me yesterday to say he was sorry that he didn't take my advice and stick with Champion. He has his $5k back, no car and is now looking in the road test pre-owned market at $15-$20 over. THE POINT IS HE GAVE CHAMPION A DEPOSIT, ASKED FOR IT BACK, AND HAD IT RETURNED IN DAYS.
I've owned almost 60 Porsche's and I know many dealers in the US and some in Europe. Champion is by far, the BEST dealer I know. I bet CJ does a great job but have had not had the opportunity. My knowledge and relationship with Shiraaz was nothing more than a passing acknowledgement. To the best of my long history of experience, the sales, management and service personnel at Champion are knowledgeable, honest and true enthusiasts. When most Porsche Dealerships have gone the route of Toyota and you can't leave the premises without speaking to the finance manager, Champion remains an "old school" dealership. It's also a "crime" that the good people at Champion are now suffering because of this A-hole.
Shiraaz used his employment to commit a crime. No different that if you hired an exterminator to get rid of ants and they fleeced your home. I was at Champion today. Champion didn't take the money or have the money. But I can tell you they are working hard to resolve this disgusting crime.
They may be great people and all that but they really dropped the ball by not firing this scumbag after the whole 991R drama and for that they will pay in both $$$ and bad publicity. They seem to be a big enough organization that they should have had controls and checks/balances against this type of rogue behavior.
It's funny that Porsche can totally control how many cars and allocations they can give a dealer (all models), can enforce brand and showroom standards, can beat them up over surveys, but somehow have no enforcement on GT car sales practices?? They use franchise dealer laws as a scapegoat. They know the games and insider tricks. They just look the other way. As we've said before, they are the enablers. They are the pimps that ***** out the allocations. Dangle the carrots if you will. It's very obvious to the business savvy members here. GT cars are the bonus program for dealers. Why I have to keep explaining this is beyond me.
Which is why I reiterate that Champion will likely have a hard time avoiding liability. The customer can reasonably rely on the representations of Champion’s employees unless he/she knows such claims are illegal, false or simply not credible. This isn’t a he said/she said story; there’s a likely a good paper trail in the form of canceled checks, build sheets, etc.
Really unfortunate for the duped customers, but let’s not bury the lead of a missing $2.5M by harping on ADMs and PAG/PCNA practices.
Oh i agree Champion is on the hook for this. But this scam is hard to catch. I’ll bet he worked every day from opening to closing to babysit this scam. And my example was with MSRP. ADM is irrelevant.
It's funny that Porsche can totally control how many cars and allocations they can give a dealer (all models), can enforce brand and showroom standards, can beat them up over surveys, but somehow have no enforcement on GT car sales practices?? They use franchise dealer laws as a scapegoat.
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It’s not franchise dealer laws, it’s Federal antitrust statutes. PCNA cannot legally dictate the price of cars sold by independent dealers. PCNA can punish dealers if they want, but they can’t dictate pricing and all their big dealers could just tell PCNA to F off if they wanted to and Porsche would be screwed.
09-15-2018, 12:51 AM
