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GT car / Salesman - Shiraaz Sookralli - Champion Porsche's VP of Marketing

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991 GT3 GT3RS and 911R
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GT car / Salesman - Shiraaz Sookralli - Champion Porsche's VP of Marketing

 
Old 09-14-2018, 05:30 PM
  #661  
sapman
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Originally Posted by sampelligrino View Post
Short term for profit/greed yes, as a business owner from a long term business standpoint absolutely not IMO. You risk alienating/burning the customers who matter most to the brand, the most enthusiastic passionate segment of customers. Also the damage to the brand equity as a whole...
I don't think most dealers really care about relationships. They are purely concerned with either "What have you done for me lately?" (i.e. - Did you buy a Panamera, Cayenne, Macan etc. from them recently?) or, will you pay an ADM for access to a GT car? The decision has been taken to opt for this over long term relationships. I'm not sure if this based on empirical evidence, but wouldn't be surprised if it was.

This type of approach is not limited to sales of Porsche GT cars. I'm a keen observer (and participant) in many airline and hotel frequent customer programs. The focus there has emphatically moved from the rewarding for "How much have you used us in the past?" model to one that rewards customers for recently spent money. This has happened over the last decade.
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Old 09-14-2018, 05:31 PM
  #662  
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Originally Posted by mwar99 View Post
Not necessarily. The could not know. If he was using one car for multiple people they wouldn't know until the first person complained they weren't getting a car. My guess would be that this happened more recently and would be why this started coming to light. Historically you could do this easily and not have anyone at the dealership know what you were doing and the customer wouldn't question it as you are misdirecting them about the mark up.
I'm not sure you understand what accounting controls are, but this is precisely why you put good controls in place. So that there is not the opportunity for someone to do this. We don't really know much of any of the facts yet, but even the few that we do scream that very basic controls were not put in place. If they were, he would not have been able to perpetrate this type of fraud. The very reason he was able to do it without being detected was because there were no controls. Let me give you a simple example. Have two people review every single deposit/deposit contract and have at least two people not in a direct report responsibility review and sign off on any changes to any build. Additionally, keep a simple log of those build changes and make sure that at least two people have review access and approval responsibility. Most large frauds in history involved poorly designed or entirely absent controls. It's the sole reason we got SARBOX.
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Old 09-14-2018, 05:36 PM
  #663  
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Originally Posted by sampelligrino View Post
That's awesome to hear, you are lucky my friend and I'm happy you were able to get that now very elusive experience. I don't really want to support a company/business that enables this, and the Porsche today is not the Porsche I grew up admiring and hoping one day I could own one of their cars. It's infuriating to me PCNA's approach of just letting the US dealers run wild and we see this happen. We see people who were told MSRP to be shown the door while we have 100+ of 991 GTxxx cars rotting on the showroom and inbound at big ADMs. Even servicing my GT3 has turned into an unpleasant experience to my surprise and I'm staring down the barrel of a massive ADM/likely games for a 992.1 GT3 if I want to get into that. Already. With the car 3-4 years away. The market I am in doesn't help either I'm keenly aware of that, but I don't think I want to move for a car manufacturer. I'm just one guy and just a fart in the proverbial hurricane but I'm really turned off by how Porsche has handled the 991 GT system. I used to love them for being the anti-Ferrari no-nonsense car company, but now Ferrari and McLaren are trying to market themselves to me as the anti-Porsche!



Absolutely agreed



I feel guilty saying this but I disagree with the Pope

GT cars are the last NA cars PAG makes, and if you want Euro Delivery/spec the car the way you want the only way to do that is ADM or start buying Macans and Panameras. If there was an easier way we'd all go that route. Or you are saying walk away from Porsche/GT cars which is the path I am considering now... & I squarely blame Porsche/PCNA completely. They use GT cars to incentivize sales for US dealers? They know what's going on and by staying silent and letting the dealers do as they please they are effectively supporting these BS practices.
My dealer put me on the GT3 waiting list without a charge, provided a speccable allocation at MSRP, offered retail discount to cover airfare to either ED factory delivery or Atlanta PEC delivery (including 90 minutes track time) and of course a full tank of gas. Picked my car up in Atlanta a week ago. Never bought a car there before.

Needless to say, they have my loyalty.

This is what we should expect in a PCNA franchises dealership.


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Old 09-14-2018, 05:38 PM
  #664  
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No one is going to put in a 2-stage process for build changes. At the relevant time I'm usually on to my rep twice a day.
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Old 09-14-2018, 05:41 PM
  #665  
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Originally Posted by Bartleby7334 View Post


My dealer put me on the GT3 waiting list without a charge, provided a speccable allocation at MSRP, offered retail discount to cover airfare to either ED factory delivery or Atlanta PEC delivery (including 90 minutes track time) and of course a full tank of gas. Picked my car up in Atlanta a week ago. Never bought a car there before.

Needless to say, they have my loyalty.

This is what we should expect in a PCNA franchises dealership.


That is obviously not a typical experience.
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Old 09-14-2018, 05:43 PM
  #666  
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Originally Posted by Gravs View Post
No one is going to put in a 2-stage process for build changes. At the relevant time I'm usually on to my rep twice a day.
So simply have the system log every change, once a week someone in accounting reviews the log and the build sheets and makes sure there's nothing amiss. Very simple way to uncover if somebody is playing games with builds and customer names on builds. Having a system where a salesman can go in alone, throw a customer name on a build sheet, print it out and send it to a customer, then change it entirely put a different customer name on it and send it out to a different customer, with zero review or oversight is just about the perfect example of a lack of adequate controls.
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Old 09-14-2018, 05:47 PM
  #667  
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That would pick it up for sure. But I bet not a single dealership in the world does that particular check.
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Old 09-14-2018, 05:47 PM
  #668  
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Originally Posted by Bartleby7334
My dealer put me on the GT3 waiting list without a charge, provided a speccable allocation at MSRP, offered retail discount to cover airfare to either ED factory delivery or Atlanta PEC delivery (including 90 minutes track time) and of course a full tank of gas. Picked my car up in Atlanta a week ago. Never bought a car there before.

Needless to say, they have my loyalty.

This is what we should expect in a PCNA franchises dealership.


Was this on Planet Earth?
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Old 09-14-2018, 05:54 PM
  #669  
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Originally Posted by neanicu View Post
Was this on Planet Earth?
Well, 80% of Rennlisters polled did pay MSRP...

https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...-purchase.html

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Old 09-14-2018, 05:55 PM
  #670  
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Originally Posted by Bartleby7334 View Post


My dealer put me on the GT3 waiting list without a charge, provided a speccable allocation at MSRP, offered retail discount to cover airfare to either ED factory delivery or Atlanta PEC delivery (including 90 minutes track time) and of course a full tank of gas. Picked my car up in Atlanta a week ago. Never bought a car there before.

Needless to say, they have my loyalty.

This is what we should expect in a PCNA franchises dealership.


Please PM me the name of the dealership, and salesperson. I would love to give them my money.
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Old 09-14-2018, 05:55 PM
  #671  
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Originally Posted by Bartleby7334
Well, 80% of Rennlisters polled did pay MSRP...

https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...-purchase.html

Question is : how many are actually telling the truth?
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Old 09-14-2018, 06:00 PM
  #672  
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Yikes. Going to be like 15K views to this thread by end of the day. Already at 10K since THE DRIVE article hit this morning.

Grand total of 40K now in 3 days.
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Old 09-14-2018, 06:03 PM
  #673  
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Originally Posted by X2Board View Post
Please PM me the name of the dealership, and salesperson. I would love to give them my money.
Me too!! Please PM me the dealership.
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Old 09-14-2018, 06:03 PM
  #674  
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I wonder if Porsche Cars North America will start in institute right of first refusals on all GT car sales now? Its begun in Canada at some dealers...
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Old 09-14-2018, 06:06 PM
  #675  
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Originally Posted by Manifold View Post
In the end, I think the dealership will need to pay, so they'll be the real victim. The people who paid a lot of money on cars yet to be delivered helped facilitate this situation with those unwise decisions, but the blame obviously goes to the criminal(s) who perpetrated this.
Originally Posted by Bartleby7334 View Post
I have a devious mind... here’s how I’d induce a dealer and a customer to commit this crime. Like any good ‘broker’... LOL

< note: for entertainment ONLY. Do NOT do this kids! >

1. Offer customer car if they will agree to $X ADM upfront.
2. Have customer write check for $X to my dummy corporation (with a name similar to the dealership so they are not suspicious).
3. Tell dealership ‘customer agreed to $Y ADM upfront’ ($Y << $X), as long as the paperwork says @MSRP so customer won’t have to pay tax on ADM.
4. Put allocation into system in customer’s name.
5. Dealership delivers car to customer, neglecting to reflect $Y ADM on sales paperwork (customer doesn’t complain because otherwise they will pay extra tax on what they think is $X but Dealership thinks is $Y.
6. Someone at dealership keeps $Y for themselves.
6. I keep $X - $Y for myself.

ADM stinks. It’s not free market capitalism, it’s asymmetric information flow that allows scams like this to fleece the sheep.
I think that pretty much sums it up. But add the last act: Said salesman waits until he has has $2.5 Mil in his bogus ADM account and decides to pull the plug, wires the $2.5 Mil to an offshore account and disappears.
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