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GT car / Salesman - Shiraaz Sookralli - Champion Porsche's VP of Marketing

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GT car / Salesman - Shiraaz Sookralli - Champion Porsche's VP of Marketing

 
Old 09-14-2018, 03:44 PM
  #616  
bluehorseshoe
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I hear Dave Maraj's son inherited Champion. I also understand that Dave's son and Shiraaz 'were like brothers.'
Personally cannot attest to either of these statements, just what I've heard through the grapevine.
Wish the best for all affected parties, including all uninvolved Champion employees as my biz with them was rather first-class.
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Old 09-14-2018, 03:46 PM
  #617  
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Originally Posted by mad_max View Post
The broker was getting his cut from them. He passed me Shiraaz's number and asked me to get in touch with him. Broker never mentioned me he was with Champion, but with a little bit of googling I found out. I was kind of amazed because I had reached out to Champion directly prior to this and was told they don't have any open allocations.
That's interesting, and I'm glad you didn't get screwed. It seems like many brokers (such as those listing build slots on this forum's marketplace) are effectively buying the slot from a dealership, and then turning around and selling it to the customer.
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Old 09-14-2018, 03:46 PM
  #618  
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Originally Posted by STG View Post
Well you guys are in for a doozy with the latest info I heard. Will decide whether to post it or not.
Please post it up or if not just PM me the info.
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Old 09-14-2018, 03:46 PM
  #619  
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A little late to the party but this is completely nuts.

I hope there is no impact to customers that have a current V200 allocation.

Maybe @PCNA will do something about the crazy ADM issue.
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Old 09-14-2018, 03:47 PM
  #620  
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Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post
This is not on Porsche or PCNA. This is on a dealer that, at a minimum, had inadequate controls in its business. Fraud and embezzlement are not all that uncommon in the auto dealership business, given ample opportunities presented by the very nature of the business. IIRC, one of the prominent dealer sponsors on Rennlist had a nasty little embezzlement incident a few years back. It happens. It's on the dealer and the perpetrators of the fraud. Porsche/PCNA should advise/assist the dealership in dealing with the situation effectively, but the idea that they owe anybody any cars is a bit of a stretch. As a pure PR move, making cars available, if they even can at this point, may be a good thing, but it's likely better for them to just let Champion handle the situation.

My guess is that Champion is currently simply trying to assess the exact extent of the fraud and crafting a plan to deal with it. If I were a gambler, I'd bet they reach into their pockets and reimburse everyone for their loss and offer some measure of compensation beyond that, such as a future GT car at sticker, etc.

The wild card would be if their investigation uncovers a much larger fraud.
Legally, maybe not, but from a practical standpoint Porsche and PCNA bear responsibility for shaping the system, and if they're smart they'll make the changes needed to restore and preserve their reputation, and prevent this sort of thing from happening again.

Also, we can't say that the dealer didn't have adequate controls simply because of this outcome. We're not just talking about error, this was intentional crime by a person who took years to build credibility and rise to a position where he could pull this off.
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Old 09-14-2018, 03:47 PM
  #621  
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Originally Posted by mwar99 View Post
Champion booked a sale at something less than what the contract was for. The ADM, or part of the ADM, went to the fraud account. The dealership most likely knew nothing about that part. As the person committing the fraud could tell the customer you want to leave that off the final contract as you don't want to pay sales tax on the ADM when you register the car.

When the car is delivered it's sold and papered at the price Champion thinks the car was sold at. Neither Champion or the customer would know the difference and the salesman walks away with the deposit in their bank account.

This could go on for years undetected assuming the salesman can control the situation long enough. Fast forward a few years and the salesman needs more money. Now he goes further by "selling" the same car more than once. Now they are going to get caught. But they need the money and it just keeps getting worse until they are caught.

Unfortunately for the 99.9% of the employees at the dealership this is going to impact them to some degree. However as has been stated most buyers will never know this even happened. I hope this turns out ok for everyone involved except for the individual(s) responsible for the fraud.
IMO doesn't matter. Bad bad idea to let all GT sales channel through a single person knowing full well the market for these cars, especially if there were prior incidents like with the R allegedly. The fact that Porsche/PCNA has allowed it to become the wild wild west where any game you can think of is used to get enthusiasts into GT cars means it squarely falls on them. They could have easily controlled this, I don't buy the "arms length" relationship PCNA is trying to emphasize with the US dealers as anything but trying to avoid liability/fallout. Whatever the US laws/regulations are, if PCNA can use the GT cars as a carrot on a stick to facilitate sales they can also use them as a carrot on a stick to facilitate customer service/good actions by good dealerships (surprise I know).

Originally Posted by ryanfelton13 View Post
Hi everyone, I'm a reporter with Jalopnik, and we're working on a story today about this situation. If anyone who has prior experiences with Champion and Shiraaz, we'd appreciate a chance to chat with you. If you'd like to talk, I'm available at ryan.felton at jalopnik.com. Truly appreciate your time and look forward to hearing from you.
Thanks hope everyone can reach out to Ryan and continue to publicize this in the car world. No mercy

Originally Posted by usctrojanGT3 View Post
Glad to hear that several places will public this story. Funny how I got so much crap about calling out stealers on here....I knew there was crap like this happening (never thought it would in the millions to one person).
Martin IMO your credibility went out the window when we saw the PTS Golf Blue .2 @ $25K over for a good price with no sales tax paid on the car @ PNH (which I also don't agree with but a completely different topic of course), I'm sure PNH appreciated that and the profit to get you into that .2 3RS @ MSRP

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
You (and plenty of others too) are doing an awful lot of speculating about what Champion knew and when. Yes, they were made aware earlier in the year when they were served in the Rampage lawsuit. Did they know before then? Maybe, maybe not. And what's happened between then and the latest lawsuit being filed last Friday? None of us are sure.

I'm not saying the guy was or wasn't a lone wolf. But it's not so difficult to believe that he was. Until then we are ALL just speculating.

One thing for sure, this guy was doing this a long time and it wasn't just "24 buyers". That's only what he admitted to in an email. One doesn't register this company in 2010 and then leave it dormant until now. Again, speculating, but that one's an easy one to see.
I don't buy this, read above. Champion's hands very dirty IMO and hammer time especially with the alleged prior R etc. Also with laws of agency when you act under the apparent authority of the employer, the employer can likely be found liable

Originally Posted by carz80am View Post
Someone should post thedrive article on there facebook or instagram

CJ and chicagowhale haven't commented cause both are busy talking to porsche on buying it, its a real nice dealership
I would support that!!!

Originally Posted by Jzips View Post
After this, Porsche needs to forbid the practice of its dealers requesting deposits against cars that are not guaranteed. This is now fully and squarely on Porsche. These dealerships are agents of the brand, and while this is a practice that’s not directly managed by Porsche corporate, now that Porsche corporate has notice of this fraud, they are responsible for putting a stop to this practice. It’s always been a shady practice but after this it’s absolutely unconscionable for Porsche to allow it to continue.
Absolutely agreed

Originally Posted by SDCLTD View Post
  • The latest revelation with Champion Porsche is simply the preverbably '....tip of the iceburg............'.
  • IMO, it is caused in how PCNA has created & allowed the mark-up of all of their GT cars, especially to anyone who is not a 'VIP' customer
  • Each dealership establishes their own 'market', and PCNA has been well aware of this for some time
  • PCNA has essentially created & allowed 2 different 'Classes' of Buyers through their VIP program
  • It does not matter how many Porsche's anyone may have purchased in the past, nor how loyal they have been to the 'brand'
  • If you attempt to purchase any GT type Porsche, the 'Surcharge' is $60K [at a minimum] to $150K-250K+/-
  • That fact can be easily documented
  • This was a predictable event............and Porsche [PCNA & others] have allowed it to develop
  • Personally, I may simply purchase another brand of vehicle after decades of loyalty to Porsche, and after acquiring several different cars from them.
I am with you I am now even thinking of my GT3 and if I want to keep it or move into an Fcar (will likely keep it). Was considering a Macan or Cayenne purchase but I'm putting the brakes on that as well, don't know if I want to support Porsche/PCNA anymore. I might start looking backwards at 993 instead of 992, get one from an enthusiast and service independently alternatively

Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post
This is not on Porsche or PCNA. This is on a dealer that, at a minimum, had inadequate controls in its business. Fraud and embezzlement are not all that uncommon in the auto dealership business, given ample opportunities presented by the very nature of the business. IIRC, one of the prominent dealer sponsors on Rennlist had a nasty little embezzlement incident a few years back. It happens. It's on the dealer and the perpetrators of the fraud. Porsche/PCNA should advise/assist the dealership in dealing with the situation effectively, but the idea that they owe anybody any cars is a bit of a stretch. As a pure PR move, making cars available, if they even can at this point, may be a good thing, but it's likely better for them to just let Champion handle the situation.

My guess is that Champion is currently simply trying to assess the exact extent of the fraud and crafting a plan to deal with it. If I were a gambler, I'd bet they reach into their pockets and reimburse everyone for their loss and offer some measure of compensation beyond that, such as a future GT car at sticker, etc.

The wild card would be if their investigation uncovers a much larger fraud.
I disagree - this falls squarely on the lap of PCNA/Porsche for enabling and almost incentivizing this type of scam. They have repeatedly told me (I have tried to contact them) that they keep an arms length relationship with the US dealers and don't get involved with the US dealers & their sales process whatsoever (when in fact they are using the GT cars as carrots on a stick to incentivize sales). They know the market for these cars and they are sitting in Atlanta watching this unfold across the country. It always should start and end at the top whether there are rogue actors or not if you want to be a good leader. If I had a rogue sub do something on one of my sites God forbid, I would immediately take action to do whatever it takes to rectify the situation & bring a huge hammer even though the sub is 2-3 "layers" down. Not just sit at my desk with my hands behind my head saying my hands are tied and I keep an arms length relationship with my subs. Different worlds I understand but I still have PCNA squarely in the sights for this mess with the 991 GT cars.

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf View Post
As was stated earlier in the thread, dealers of all manufacturers do this. Yesterday Matt Farrah posted a Ford Dealer who was marking up Bullit Mustangs $15k and Raptors $25k! This is certainly not unique to Porsche.
ADMs are not unique to Porsche but the prevalence of them to the GT cars which are now the only option your forced to buy if you want an NA engine is rampant. Also it's not just ADMs but the how uncontrolled the ADMs are in terms of amount, who is collecting them (dealers AND/OR brokers), and the types of ADMs. It's not just cut a check for 15 over. It could be political. It could be games. You could have customers who have in writing an allocation @ MSRP to only watch as they get passed by people willing to pay an ADM or buy a Panamera Turbo S e-Hybrid Performance Pack Leather to Sample Paint to Sample etc. You have people not getting their deposits back for GT cars. You have people who are willing to cut that check for 15 over and still getting an absolute **** experience. You could be lead to believe that because you have a V070 order demand in the system that if you wait patiently you'll get the call while the SA is behind your back selling allocations at substantial ADMs. You have SAs hinting that this could be the last manual/NA furthering the hype around the car and fanning the flames. It's not clear but in fact deliberately murky and a grey area so that the dealers and salespeople can extract and squeeze as much profit out of the customer as possible which is the absolute wrong way to operate this customer centric business and likely led to this mess. ETC

That is different and not acceptable in my opinion
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Old 09-14-2018, 03:51 PM
  #622  
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Originally Posted by sampelligrino View Post
I am with you I am now even thinking of my GT3 and if I want to keep it or move into an Fcar
I'm surprised by sentiments such as this. I feel bad for the guys who got bamboozled by Champion Porsche. But this situation has made me feel even more fortunate to lock up a PTS GT3. Between the difficulty of navigating the elusive PTS schedule, the endless ADM charges/dealer games/flipping, and this Champion Porsche debacle, I'm amazed and thankful to have landed one with no problem.
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Old 09-14-2018, 03:53 PM
  #623  
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Originally Posted by TRAKCAR View Post
No, he took care of my warranty repairs, sold my 4.0 in 2013 and when I stopped in for service I walked over to say hello to him.
I got my check and all was OK.

But I would have given him a check for a car no problem.
To me he was a member of the wealthy Champion family, always driving a baller Porsche or Rolls, he was there most days, just hanging out in the used car building.

The house of cards came tumbling down with the death of Maraj, or the other way around..
Someone should not only buy the dealership but also the movie rights.
It would raise a red flag to me that a sales manager drives a rolls Royce unless he was driving cars from the lot on dealer plate - that isn't uncommon.
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Old 09-14-2018, 03:53 PM
  #624  
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Originally Posted by STG View Post
Well you guys are in for a doozy with the latest info I heard. Will decide whether to post it or not.
Do it.

There's almost so much information already out in the public domain that I doubt we've even seen the tip of the iceberg yet.
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Old 09-14-2018, 03:54 PM
  #625  
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WOW this thread flourished to 30K hits in three days!

It started with "Fraud/Swindling" headlines!

Now it transformed to "INSIDER TRADING" !

Drive safe,
GT3RS-Fan1






Originally Posted by destaccado View Post
Originally Posted by STG View Post
Well you guys are in for a doozy with the latest info I heard. Will decide whether to post it or not.
Originally Posted by reidry View Post
Originally Posted by Es macht nichts View Post
Rennlist just gets sillier by the day. Post it or don't mention it.
Originally Posted by TRAKCAR View Post
why hold back now?
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Old 09-14-2018, 03:55 PM
  #626  
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THIS IS not going away soon and its going to affect the Porsche brand long after these crooks are found. It's bad for us enthusiasts!
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Old 09-14-2018, 03:58 PM
  #627  
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Originally Posted by jackmac View Post
This kind of fraudulent scheme does not happen overnight, it must have taken Shiraaz at least up to a year to plan this. Do you guys really think he does not have any inside help to make this work ? Is the dealership completely blind ?
I was really hoping that CJ or Chicago whale can chime in how does the process work when a customer orders a GT car. Does it go through the sales manager and up the chain ?
Jack
You could easily pull this off with out any inside help. It's really just a matter of for how long could you pull it off.
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Old 09-14-2018, 03:59 PM
  #628  
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Originally Posted by Manifold View Post
Legally, maybe not, but from a practical standpoint Porsche and PCNA bear responsibility for shaping the system, and if they're smart they'll make the changes needed to restore and preserve their reputation, and prevent this sort of thing from happening again.

Also, we can't say that the dealer didn't have adequate controls simply because of this outcome. We're not just talking about error, this was intentional crime by a person who took years to build credibility and rise to a position where he could pull this off.
If there were even decent controls in place, this could have been prevented. Dozens of cars with no deposits? Constantly changing builds? One person in charge of GT cars with no controls in place to verify his actions? I agree that we don't know all the facts yet, but I'd be willing to bet that we'll find out that this fraud could have easily been prevented, or at least uncovered earlier, if good controls were in place. Trust, but verify.
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Old 09-14-2018, 03:59 PM
  #629  
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This will have to be verified by someone or a police report. Take it for what it is. Comes from a credible source.

Shiraaz was the only person with Dave Maraj (owner of Champion) when he hit his head on his boat and drowned. The police have supposedly opened up the investigation again after this embezzlement news.

Don't flame me here ... just passing a lead on. Not a verified fact. Not meant to detract here, but could be a big piece of the story here.

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* I will retract if not accurate.

Last edited by STG; 09-14-2018 at 04:16 PM.
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Old 09-14-2018, 04:04 PM
  #630  
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Wow.
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