GT car / Salesman - Shiraaz Sookralli - Champion Porsche's VP of Marketing
09-21-2018, 01:36 AM
#1561
"Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, transmits or causes to be transmitted by means of wire, radio, or television communication in interstate or foreign commerce, any writings, signs, signals, pictures, or sounds for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. If the violation affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both."[3]
09-21-2018, 01:40 AM
#1562
09-21-2018, 01:45 AM
#1563
IMHO there's too much crying in this thread.
If you want to read more boring debates on which color brakes reduce glare in your passenger's eyes better then there's 1000x other threads here to do that.
No one here is doing anything illegal. No one here is doing anything immoral. If you're not interested in this topic just move on.
If you want to read more boring debates on which color brakes reduce glare in your passenger's eyes better then there's 1000x other threads here to do that.
No one here is doing anything illegal. No one here is doing anything immoral. If you're not interested in this topic just move on.
Oh wait.... we already did that last month.
09-21-2018, 03:44 AM
#1564
09-21-2018, 06:55 AM
#1565
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Champion theft
I had a bad experience at Champion Porsche with them messing up my car and doing thousands of dollars of damage. I also got to be personally cursed out by Mr Nice Guy. And now I am glad because it stopped me from going there when I bought my next cars.
I feel for the victims of this event. No one deserves this because we are perceived to be wealthy. Most of us just worked very hard and want a few nice things to enjoy.
I would not let this event stop me from getting another GT car. I do think that if everyone refused to pony up the premiums that we as a buying group could end it. But if even one person or luxury broker does it then we lose.
I feel for the victims of this event. No one deserves this because we are perceived to be wealthy. Most of us just worked very hard and want a few nice things to enjoy.
I would not let this event stop me from getting another GT car. I do think that if everyone refused to pony up the premiums that we as a buying group could end it. But if even one person or luxury broker does it then we lose.
09-21-2018, 08:18 AM
#1567
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IMHO there's too much crying in this thread.
The thread is over 100 pages long and by far the most popular thread in this section of the forum. People are clearly interested in it. People are clearly interested in reading facts and yes - speculation.
STG deserves a gold star below his name for bringing it to our attention and for all the investigative work he's done for free on his own time. If I was a victim here - I'd definitely appreciate his posts a lot more than yours.
If you want to read more boring debates on which color brakes reduce glare in your passenger's eyes better then there's 1000x other threads here to do that.
No one here is doing anything illegal. No one here is doing anything immoral. If you're not interested in this topic just move on.
The thread is over 100 pages long and by far the most popular thread in this section of the forum. People are clearly interested in it. People are clearly interested in reading facts and yes - speculation.
STG deserves a gold star below his name for bringing it to our attention and for all the investigative work he's done for free on his own time. If I was a victim here - I'd definitely appreciate his posts a lot more than yours.
If you want to read more boring debates on which color brakes reduce glare in your passenger's eyes better then there's 1000x other threads here to do that.
No one here is doing anything illegal. No one here is doing anything immoral. If you're not interested in this topic just move on.
09-21-2018, 09:01 AM
#1568
let me see if I understand - is one of the allegations in this thread that the dealer was charging over MSRP for limited allocation cars? yes, it's common practice for dealerships to sell "preowned" cars for big premiums for a car sitting on the floor that has a been transferred once already. I see it at every Ferrari & Porsche dealership. In fact it's a game the dealers play with their insiders, the car is purchased and returned to the dealership at a later date to be resold at a premium. It's common & accepted practice. We call it "the bank of Ferrari" they invented it - a guy gets an allocation & green light to order a car, it gets built, paid for and delivered with an unwritten agreement that the miles driven are to be limited & the dealer can call the car back to be resold at a premium, the dealer gets the lions share the customer gets all the money back plus a small premium and likely is in line for the next one, common practice and perfectly legit.
Ever wonder why you commonly see a GT3RS on Penske's, The Collection's, Braman's or Champion's floor way over sticker?
I have never been offered a car by a dealer to be ordered where i would agree to purchase the car for more than MSRP. Sure, I have been told "no we have no allocation" but never "we will order the car from the factory if you agree to pay a premium over sticker". Can some one confirm this has the case with Champion or any other OEM dealer? Is that what the posters are accusing Shiraaz of doing in addition to taking deposits with the intent of fraud? the two acts are very different and I am just trying to clarify the accusations.
Ever wonder why you commonly see a GT3RS on Penske's, The Collection's, Braman's or Champion's floor way over sticker?
I have never been offered a car by a dealer to be ordered where i would agree to purchase the car for more than MSRP. Sure, I have been told "no we have no allocation" but never "we will order the car from the factory if you agree to pay a premium over sticker". Can some one confirm this has the case with Champion or any other OEM dealer? Is that what the posters are accusing Shiraaz of doing in addition to taking deposits with the intent of fraud? the two acts are very different and I am just trying to clarify the accusations.
Last edited by Toad Hall; 09-21-2018 at 09:06 AM. Reason: punctuation
09-21-2018, 09:14 AM
#1569
Race Director
Originally Posted by Toad Hall
let me see if I understand - is one of the allegations in this thread that the dealer was charging over MSRP for limited allocation cars? yes, it's common practice for dealerships to sell "preowned" cars for big premiums for a car sitting on the floor that has a been transferred once already. I see it at every Ferrari & Porsche dealership. In fact it's a game the dealers play with their insiders, the car is purchased and returned to the dealership at a later date to be resold at a premium. It's common & accepted practice. We call it "the bank of Ferrari" they invented it - a guy gets an allocation & green light to order a car, it gets built, paid for and delivered with an unwritten agreement that the miles driven are to be limited & the dealer can call the car back to be resold at a premium, the dealer gets the lions share the customer gets all the money back plus a small premium and likely is in line for the next one, common practice and perfectly legit.
Ever wonder why you commonly see a GT3RS on Penske's, The Collection's, Braman's or Champion's floor way over sticker?
I have never been offered a car by a dealer to be ordered where i would agree to purchase the car for more than MSRP. Sure, I have been told "no we have no allocation" but never "we will order the car from the factory if you agree to pay a premium over sticker". Can some one confirm this has the case with Champion or any other OEM dealer? Is that what the posters are accusing Shiraaz of doing in addition to taking deposits with the intent of fraud? the two acts are very different and I am just trying to clarify the accusations.
Ever wonder why you commonly see a GT3RS on Penske's, The Collection's, Braman's or Champion's floor way over sticker?
I have never been offered a car by a dealer to be ordered where i would agree to purchase the car for more than MSRP. Sure, I have been told "no we have no allocation" but never "we will order the car from the factory if you agree to pay a premium over sticker". Can some one confirm this has the case with Champion or any other OEM dealer? Is that what the posters are accusing Shiraaz of doing in addition to taking deposits with the intent of fraud? the two acts are very different and I am just trying to clarify the accusations.
Toad, if you'd take time to actually read the thread you'd have the answers to all your questions. So you sign up to RL and start cheerleading for Champion, without even thoroughly becoming educated on the story??
09-21-2018, 09:18 AM
#1570
Race Director
Originally Posted by Manifold
I agree that the thread is interesting and important. I also agree that if people aren’t interested in the thread, just don’t read it. Where I take issue is overconfidently speculating in a way that can harm a party without sufficient evidence. That’s not so different from fake news.
With any case like this, there are the facts and when trying to piece together a story line and agenda, some speculation (and noted as such) and connecting the dots happens.
Had nobody looked into this and started doing digging into it, and if we went by what Champion offered, we'd only have their attorneys phone number at this point. Not fair to anyone.
Thanks for everyone's collective efforts here. I'm a very small piece of it.
09-21-2018, 09:19 AM
#1571
Yawn, anyone have an answer to the question besides the self proclaimed keyboard vigilante boss? this thread is many pages of crazy town interspersed with facts. Yup i am late to enter this discussion.
09-21-2018, 09:21 AM
#1572
Race Director
Originally Posted by Toad Hall
Yawn, anyone have an answer to the question besides the self proclaimed keyboard vigilante boss? this thread is many pages of crazy town interspersed with facts. Yup i am late to enter this discussion.
Yes, Champion was charging OVER MSRP ADM's (additional dealer mark ups) on the GT cars.
09-21-2018, 09:22 AM
#1573
It's ok if you're not familiar with the system but there is a lot of information on the forum, especially on this thread. Ferrari model is different, but it's been slowly shaping into that.
09-21-2018, 09:25 AM
#1574
Race Director
Originally Posted by GiuseppeM
Toad, take a moment to read this: https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...litigation.pdf
That's a good start!
09-21-2018, 09:41 AM
#1575
thank you for you courteous reply and the court docs. I had not followed that part of the saga, nor did I know any of the details. Looking it over and noting the dates it would appear this should have been brought to a head by the dealer long ago and I have a much better understanding of what has transpired to date.
you cant make this stuff up.
you cant make this stuff up.