.2GT3RS driving impressions vs .1GT3RS
#196
Race Car
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Any on why the .2 3RS steering is less precise than .1 ? Camber? Rose jointed?
#197
Rennlist Member
Ajag had a very good seat of the pants comparison from having driven both. There are apparently noticeable differences in power delivery, ride, suspension stiffness PDK quickness and sound according to him.
There is is no doubt the .2 is a step on from the .1 based on specs alone. Whether you as opposed to someone else will find them noticeable to whatever degree will vary I guess.
There is is no doubt the .2 is a step on from the .1 based on specs alone. Whether you as opposed to someone else will find them noticeable to whatever degree will vary I guess.
#198
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Thread Starter
#200
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Key question is what tires the .2 RS was on. Interesting that .1 RS came out a good bit faster than .2 GT3. As always, track conditions, driver, etc. can affect the results, so need to take these numbers with a grain of salt and try to aggregate data points to get a better sense of how things compare.
Just in case I get an RS allocation and decide to go for it, I ran a spec this morning and the price came to $194,300, which isn't too bad.
Just in case I get an RS allocation and decide to go for it, I ran a spec this morning and the price came to $194,300, which isn't too bad.
#201
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Key question is what tires the .2 RS was on. Interesting that .1 RS came out a good bit faster than .2 GT3. As always, track conditions, driver, etc. can affect the results, so need to take these numbers with a grain of salt and try to aggregate data points to get a better sense of how things compare.
Just in case I get an RS allocation and decide to go for it, I ran a spec this morning and the price came to $194,300, which isn't too bad.
Just in case I get an RS allocation and decide to go for it, I ran a spec this morning and the price came to $194,300, which isn't too bad.
#202
Drifting
Key question is what tires the .2 RS was on. Interesting that .1 RS came out a good bit faster than .2 GT3. As always, track conditions, driver, etc. can affect the results, so need to take these numbers with a grain of salt and try to aggregate data points to get a better sense of how things compare.
Just in case I get an RS allocation and decide to go for it, I ran a spec this morning and the price came to $194,300, which isn't too bad.
Just in case I get an RS allocation and decide to go for it, I ran a spec this morning and the price came to $194,300, which isn't too bad.
#203
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Updated model of the same car should be faster, but not clear whether .2 GT3 should be faster than .1 RS. I can see it going either way.
#206
Rennlist Member
Key question is what tires the .2 RS was on. Interesting that .1 RS came out a good bit faster than .2 GT3. As always, track conditions, driver, etc. can affect the results, so need to take these numbers with a grain of salt and try to aggregate data points to get a better sense of how things compare.
Just in case I get an RS allocation and decide to go for it, I ran a spec this morning and the price came to $194,300, which isn't too bad.
Just in case I get an RS allocation and decide to go for it, I ran a spec this morning and the price came to $194,300, which isn't too bad.
Then there is the tires difference. .2 GT3 has better tires, but .2 GT3 RS and 991 GT2 RS have even better tires, and the sizes are identical to the 918 Spyder/991.1 GT3 RS, so no idea why a 918 Spyder or 991.1 GT3 RS owner would buy slower tires, when faster ones are available for a similar price.
991.2 GT3 has a little extra power over the 991.1 GT3 RS (and let's not talk mid range, because using this range on track days belongs to DE Students group), but 991.1 RS has a more aggressive R&P gear, and also fits really wider tires than the GT3 cannot fit (295/345 fit under the fenders in the RS, GT3s max out around 265/315).
For regular drivers and not this media/internet/magazine tests, the biggest difference is in the operators, and by several seconds per lap.
#207
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Porsche is pretty good with reporting performance stats. Pretty accurate. I think we are all knocking ourselves silly for nothing. PAG wouldn't put out the .2 GT3RS that is not faster than the .1 GT3RS.
#208
Three Wheelin'
#209
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Some feedback on the .2 RS, can't really compare to .1 RS, but had good seat time on GT3 991.1-PDK (with track alignment and DSC controller), so I'll make some comparisons wrt to that car.
(This long review is for those that are waiting for the car, with the hope it alleviates the agony)
Conditions:
Drove the car from Chicago to California (yes, I was REALLY excited about that)
Tire pressure, exactly what's on the manual : 29/33 (F/R)
Tires MSCP2
Weather, all conditions : Sunny, Cold, Rainy, Pouring, Extremely Hot, Dry, Humid.
Spec (main ones): PCCB, FAL, Aluminum Pedals, extended range tank, Bucket seats.... Black. w/Aurum wheels
I did proper break-in, with oil/filter change around half way.
Driving overall :
The overall feel for the drive is superb, its firm yet compliant. On obscenely bad roads you have to survive it, it does not shine, as expected.
The road noise is significant, its more than GT3. But it is not ridiculous. Since I was driving stretches of 8 hours, I did wear earplugs occasionally, I alternated with noise cancelling headphones. (I prefer earplugs, so I could hear the alarm of another device that I had in the car -that helps in reducing the cost of the experience-). I DID enjoy the drive with naked ears from time to time, the engine sound under acceleration is VERY nice, but at constant speed it gets to you after few hours (any repetitive sound does, you could say).
The bucket seats are AMAZING, I had zero trouble, and I found them very comfortable.... Previous car was 18-way, I must say I prefer the Buckets (18-way is better if you want to rest your head on the seat, but if you lean your head forward a tiny bit -as if you had a helmet- bucket seats are just perfect for me)
Engine sound:
WOW.
It all starts with starting the engine... instant orgasmic experience. It starts the engine with a boost at 2K or so RPM, then it comes down -it stays a tiny bit longer than GT3 and I think higher-. I **believe** they play with the exhaust valves, it sounds real deep at start, can't tell for sure, but I CAN tell is that every time I started the car at the gas stations -and had many of those- it was always a happy time.
There is SOMETHING about the engine sound that inspires confidence, yes, I admit its very subjective, but I don't feel any strain or stress at all.
You feel the engine sound more than the exhaust sound (I'd say it was the opposite the GT3 I was driving). Its a very natural sound, not loud, just strong and solid. I did NOT feel the sound excessive at all, on the contrary, it feels very pleasant. (Can't say the same thing for road noise)
The GT3 was higher pitch than this car.
The upshift is very different (the PDK programming -system?- is very different than reference GT3, more on that later). Under acceleration, and it doesn't need to be all out, just a bit of aggression, the upshift makes like a "pneumatic / semi-explosion" sound that is really nice and contributes to the experience. I LOVE this detail.
Transmission:
The programming (I don't know whether there are actual mechanical differences with .1, I'm guessing there are) is very different.
In Normal mode, the downshifting it seems to "skip" gears to land in the eventual gear you need to be when releasing the break pedal. Most of my breaking was normal road breaking, did a couple of harder ones -nowhere near track level- to try out the downshifting and still feel skips gears, you don't feel traction change on rears nor engine level sound variation (Maybe I need to try other things, my driving was mostly on highways, not lots of breaking.... as I write this I'm hesitating myself )
In PDK Sport, you get the usual rev matching that we all love and praise.... but its, again, different than GT3.1.... its smoother and more precise -in the sense that revs might be matched better and less friction change-.
The upshift is glorious on either PDK mode, being more enjoyable if you are applying good throttle.
Stearing:
Others mentioned this, its "lighter" than GT3. But its absolutely responsive. I'm guessing you'll need to be very progressive and smooth on all your inputs (not just steering).
I **believe**, like others ventured, that it might be toe setting, but it does feel like you need to be very smooth, the car just turns very aggressively. I think I like harder steering feel better, but this is not a problem at all, just a difference in feel and perception. (Don't think it'll affect negatively on the track AT ALL)
Also, I think the programming/steering ratios are different.
Power delivery:
I think I now know why they say the mid-range power is better.... you will feel like a turbo kicking in at around 5.5K RPM.... then again around 7.5K or so. Very different delivery than GT3 of reference, to the point that in one particular turn that I usually take on my joy rides, the car felt like it "jumped" forward, instant smile and usual "out loud WOW".
Did couple of Launch Control on safe and deserted roads, it was awesome. The TC is certainly more permissive than GT3, I had to abort one as the traction difference between R/L was too big and had to fight the steering wheel. Absolutely shocked by the power to the wheels on 2nd and 3rd gear, it did NOT feel like 50HP difference, the power band in higher revs is awesome.
Braking:
Its basically same as GT3, I just feel that it doesn't dive as much, which I love ! (Attributing this to harder suspension).
Very very stable under braking, didn't do race condition, but couple of hard ones made me smile.
Interior:
Its basically the same as GT3, few details here and there (I didn't care much about that, other than looking similar to previous, and it didn't disappoint)
Nice touches I wasn't expecting, again I didn't care about interior, the seat belts, door handle -if you can call it that- are silverish, which matches the stitching .... nice touch. And it has a back up camera, which again I did not expect, but gladly take.
Bose sound system is OK, at low speed it sounds great, you'll have to increase volume due to road noise.
Smells good, different than GT3 (can't describe odor)
Steering wheel feels very nice, its marginally smaller, still good visibility of the dashboard, no interference whatsoever. (I use the steering wheel as high as I can, and seat as low as I can, in those settings and with my height -5'10"- the steering wheel column blocks a bit of dashboard so I go bit lower, so I'm guessing I'm sitting lower than GT3, maybe due to bucket seats ?)
Looks:
I did not expect to look particularly good -its another 911-, but I gladly admit I was wrong, it looks stunning. Very aggressive, very sporty, those wide hips, with the big wing, its just awesome !
Its a fantastic car. (I'm happy I switched from .1 GT3, whether the price difference is worth it, that's a very subjective topic, I think you get a magnificent experience with both, I'm enjoying the current one)
I'll say something else once I have a chance to go to a track that I have reasonable experience already.
(This long review is for those that are waiting for the car, with the hope it alleviates the agony)
Conditions:
Drove the car from Chicago to California (yes, I was REALLY excited about that)
Tire pressure, exactly what's on the manual : 29/33 (F/R)
Tires MSCP2
Weather, all conditions : Sunny, Cold, Rainy, Pouring, Extremely Hot, Dry, Humid.
Spec (main ones): PCCB, FAL, Aluminum Pedals, extended range tank, Bucket seats.... Black. w/Aurum wheels
I did proper break-in, with oil/filter change around half way.
Driving overall :
The overall feel for the drive is superb, its firm yet compliant. On obscenely bad roads you have to survive it, it does not shine, as expected.
The road noise is significant, its more than GT3. But it is not ridiculous. Since I was driving stretches of 8 hours, I did wear earplugs occasionally, I alternated with noise cancelling headphones. (I prefer earplugs, so I could hear the alarm of another device that I had in the car -that helps in reducing the cost of the experience-). I DID enjoy the drive with naked ears from time to time, the engine sound under acceleration is VERY nice, but at constant speed it gets to you after few hours (any repetitive sound does, you could say).
The bucket seats are AMAZING, I had zero trouble, and I found them very comfortable.... Previous car was 18-way, I must say I prefer the Buckets (18-way is better if you want to rest your head on the seat, but if you lean your head forward a tiny bit -as if you had a helmet- bucket seats are just perfect for me)
Engine sound:
WOW.
It all starts with starting the engine... instant orgasmic experience. It starts the engine with a boost at 2K or so RPM, then it comes down -it stays a tiny bit longer than GT3 and I think higher-. I **believe** they play with the exhaust valves, it sounds real deep at start, can't tell for sure, but I CAN tell is that every time I started the car at the gas stations -and had many of those- it was always a happy time.
There is SOMETHING about the engine sound that inspires confidence, yes, I admit its very subjective, but I don't feel any strain or stress at all.
You feel the engine sound more than the exhaust sound (I'd say it was the opposite the GT3 I was driving). Its a very natural sound, not loud, just strong and solid. I did NOT feel the sound excessive at all, on the contrary, it feels very pleasant. (Can't say the same thing for road noise)
The GT3 was higher pitch than this car.
The upshift is very different (the PDK programming -system?- is very different than reference GT3, more on that later). Under acceleration, and it doesn't need to be all out, just a bit of aggression, the upshift makes like a "pneumatic / semi-explosion" sound that is really nice and contributes to the experience. I LOVE this detail.
Transmission:
The programming (I don't know whether there are actual mechanical differences with .1, I'm guessing there are) is very different.
In Normal mode, the downshifting it seems to "skip" gears to land in the eventual gear you need to be when releasing the break pedal. Most of my breaking was normal road breaking, did a couple of harder ones -nowhere near track level- to try out the downshifting and still feel skips gears, you don't feel traction change on rears nor engine level sound variation (Maybe I need to try other things, my driving was mostly on highways, not lots of breaking.... as I write this I'm hesitating myself )
In PDK Sport, you get the usual rev matching that we all love and praise.... but its, again, different than GT3.1.... its smoother and more precise -in the sense that revs might be matched better and less friction change-.
The upshift is glorious on either PDK mode, being more enjoyable if you are applying good throttle.
Stearing:
Others mentioned this, its "lighter" than GT3. But its absolutely responsive. I'm guessing you'll need to be very progressive and smooth on all your inputs (not just steering).
I **believe**, like others ventured, that it might be toe setting, but it does feel like you need to be very smooth, the car just turns very aggressively. I think I like harder steering feel better, but this is not a problem at all, just a difference in feel and perception. (Don't think it'll affect negatively on the track AT ALL)
Also, I think the programming/steering ratios are different.
Power delivery:
I think I now know why they say the mid-range power is better.... you will feel like a turbo kicking in at around 5.5K RPM.... then again around 7.5K or so. Very different delivery than GT3 of reference, to the point that in one particular turn that I usually take on my joy rides, the car felt like it "jumped" forward, instant smile and usual "out loud WOW".
Did couple of Launch Control on safe and deserted roads, it was awesome. The TC is certainly more permissive than GT3, I had to abort one as the traction difference between R/L was too big and had to fight the steering wheel. Absolutely shocked by the power to the wheels on 2nd and 3rd gear, it did NOT feel like 50HP difference, the power band in higher revs is awesome.
Braking:
Its basically same as GT3, I just feel that it doesn't dive as much, which I love ! (Attributing this to harder suspension).
Very very stable under braking, didn't do race condition, but couple of hard ones made me smile.
Interior:
Its basically the same as GT3, few details here and there (I didn't care much about that, other than looking similar to previous, and it didn't disappoint)
Nice touches I wasn't expecting, again I didn't care about interior, the seat belts, door handle -if you can call it that- are silverish, which matches the stitching .... nice touch. And it has a back up camera, which again I did not expect, but gladly take.
Bose sound system is OK, at low speed it sounds great, you'll have to increase volume due to road noise.
Smells good, different than GT3 (can't describe odor)
Steering wheel feels very nice, its marginally smaller, still good visibility of the dashboard, no interference whatsoever. (I use the steering wheel as high as I can, and seat as low as I can, in those settings and with my height -5'10"- the steering wheel column blocks a bit of dashboard so I go bit lower, so I'm guessing I'm sitting lower than GT3, maybe due to bucket seats ?)
Looks:
I did not expect to look particularly good -its another 911-, but I gladly admit I was wrong, it looks stunning. Very aggressive, very sporty, those wide hips, with the big wing, its just awesome !
Its a fantastic car. (I'm happy I switched from .1 GT3, whether the price difference is worth it, that's a very subjective topic, I think you get a magnificent experience with both, I'm enjoying the current one)
I'll say something else once I have a chance to go to a track that I have reasonable experience already.
#210
Disclaimer: everything below refers to on track performance, if you don’t plan on tracking, either of the cars is amazing and will give you plenty of joy on the road.
I recently managed to drive both .1 RS and .2 RS over two sunny days at Spa.
My initial impressions from driving the cars at Hungaroring (posted earlier in this thread) were amplified to a surprising degree.
I arrived planning to get the .1RS below 2:40.
Before I managed to warm myself up over a couple of sessions in heavy morning traffic I saw a .2 RS post a 2:36.5…
Impossible I thought. Not even on fresh trofeos. He must have gone straight through Eau Rouge.
I anticipated to see the .2 RSs dip into the 2:38s but not 2:36.
That is GT2 territory. With Manthey setups, pro drivers and stuff.
Managed a 2:40.9 in the .1 RS before lunch (on Cup2s).
Thought I could get it in the 2:39s in cool afternoon air without traffic but it became obvious that the .2 RSs are out of reach in terms of ultimate pace. Another .2RS driver posted a low 2:37.
Being lucky enough to be able to do so I decided to see for myself what the fuss was all about. So I jumped into the dunlop equipped .2 RS.
First session,
First hot lap 2:39.0
Second hot lap straight after that 2:37.7…
Drove slowly back to the pits, checked the monitor displaying official timing – 2:37.7
That was on the same tires I used in Hungary – they already had about 2 days of hard running in them and another two days of slower pace driving.
Wing in low downforce position, no alignment, no corner weights. Car was as delivered off the showroom floor.
Spent the second day trying to see if I can catch up to the fastest guys. Traffic was an issue. Ran patiently all day trying not to ruin my tires.
Once traffic cleared after 4PM, I managed to do 3 laps within a tenth of a second around the 2:37 mark.
Two last laps were very high 2:36s.
None of them were perfect. Combined best sectors in racechrono show a theoretical best of 2:36.11… on used dunlops
Now, where do the four seconds come from?
This time around I noticed the difference in stiffness between the cars. The stiffer springs of the .2 keep the car planted at all times, most significantly when you mess up in a corner and want to make a minor correction be it with the brake, throttle or steering.
In the .1 RS any movements once the car is set in a corner result in either oversteer or understeer. The weight transfer on the softly sprung car is too significant.
The .2RS masked my sloppy driving.
Traction control intrusions, once they happen, are more nuanced and subtle. For the first time I thought I could gain some time by switching traction control off.
In the La Source hairpin and bus stop chicane before that I think I could have managed the slight exit oversteer myself. But that would be true for both cars. All the other 120mph+ corners contained my bravery and TC stayed ON at all times.
Straightline speed is very similar, so don’t think much time is made there.
Stability braking into a corner, room for small corrections once in a corner and fast exit are where it’s at.
Shifts are faster, but again it’s not where all the time is gained.
I see myself doing a 2:36.5 in perfect conditions. I don’t see why a competent driver with fresh sticky rubber and clear air couldn’t do a 2:35.
If you’re after laptimes, the two cars are worlds apart.
I’m not sure Porsche intended for the .2GT3RS to be that good
Here’s the 2:36.98 lap
2:40.96 lap in the .1RS
I recently managed to drive both .1 RS and .2 RS over two sunny days at Spa.
My initial impressions from driving the cars at Hungaroring (posted earlier in this thread) were amplified to a surprising degree.
I arrived planning to get the .1RS below 2:40.
Before I managed to warm myself up over a couple of sessions in heavy morning traffic I saw a .2 RS post a 2:36.5…
Impossible I thought. Not even on fresh trofeos. He must have gone straight through Eau Rouge.
I anticipated to see the .2 RSs dip into the 2:38s but not 2:36.
That is GT2 territory. With Manthey setups, pro drivers and stuff.
Managed a 2:40.9 in the .1 RS before lunch (on Cup2s).
Thought I could get it in the 2:39s in cool afternoon air without traffic but it became obvious that the .2 RSs are out of reach in terms of ultimate pace. Another .2RS driver posted a low 2:37.
Being lucky enough to be able to do so I decided to see for myself what the fuss was all about. So I jumped into the dunlop equipped .2 RS.
First session,
First hot lap 2:39.0
Second hot lap straight after that 2:37.7…
Drove slowly back to the pits, checked the monitor displaying official timing – 2:37.7
That was on the same tires I used in Hungary – they already had about 2 days of hard running in them and another two days of slower pace driving.
Wing in low downforce position, no alignment, no corner weights. Car was as delivered off the showroom floor.
Spent the second day trying to see if I can catch up to the fastest guys. Traffic was an issue. Ran patiently all day trying not to ruin my tires.
Once traffic cleared after 4PM, I managed to do 3 laps within a tenth of a second around the 2:37 mark.
Two last laps were very high 2:36s.
None of them were perfect. Combined best sectors in racechrono show a theoretical best of 2:36.11… on used dunlops
Now, where do the four seconds come from?
This time around I noticed the difference in stiffness between the cars. The stiffer springs of the .2 keep the car planted at all times, most significantly when you mess up in a corner and want to make a minor correction be it with the brake, throttle or steering.
In the .1 RS any movements once the car is set in a corner result in either oversteer or understeer. The weight transfer on the softly sprung car is too significant.
The .2RS masked my sloppy driving.
Traction control intrusions, once they happen, are more nuanced and subtle. For the first time I thought I could gain some time by switching traction control off.
In the La Source hairpin and bus stop chicane before that I think I could have managed the slight exit oversteer myself. But that would be true for both cars. All the other 120mph+ corners contained my bravery and TC stayed ON at all times.
Straightline speed is very similar, so don’t think much time is made there.
Stability braking into a corner, room for small corrections once in a corner and fast exit are where it’s at.
Shifts are faster, but again it’s not where all the time is gained.
I see myself doing a 2:36.5 in perfect conditions. I don’t see why a competent driver with fresh sticky rubber and clear air couldn’t do a 2:35.
If you’re after laptimes, the two cars are worlds apart.
I’m not sure Porsche intended for the .2GT3RS to be that good
Here’s the 2:36.98 lap
2:40.96 lap in the .1RS
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DK7 (04-28-2020)