.2GT3RS driving impressions vs .1GT3RS
08-16-2018, 09:26 AM
#91
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Thread Starter
Plus I’ve been saying posted .1RS time for the Ring was off for years. No one listened and some ridiculed me for being a .1RS fanboy.
i wii say that 1.6 to 2+ second a lap faster for the .2RS on US tracks is still very substantial.
I have a .2RS now but it doesn’t matter. Facts is facts.
08-16-2018, 09:39 AM
#92
I'm tending to agree with others that the 7:20 for the .1 RS likely underestimates the pace compared to the .1 GT3. I would guess that .2 GT3 and .1 RS are pretty close, and could be convinced that the .2 GT3 might be a bit faster than the .1 RS (same peak power, fatter torque curve, hidden aero with the diffuser, possibly improved suspension tuning, etc.). Do we have CD and downforce numbers handy for all four cars?
On same tires as .1 GT3 and same day on track with pro drivers, if .1 GT3 is 7:25, I'm thinking:
.1 GT3 7:25
.1 RS 7:16
.2 GT3 7:12
.2 RS 7:07
On same tires as .1 GT3 and same day on track with pro drivers, if .1 GT3 is 7:25, I'm thinking:
.1 GT3 7:25
.1 RS 7:16
.2 GT3 7:12
.2 RS 7:07
7:12 on the .2 gt3 was with a different driver and relaid track surface, it's not directly comparable to the previous times imo.
08-16-2018, 10:43 AM
#93
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assuming tyre/driver equality (big assumption regarding the tyres as they run different sized tyres) I can't see why the .1rs is that kind of margin behind the .2 gt3. It has more claimed downforce and definitely more tyre grip, while it might give up some engine grunt mid range and right at the top of the curve overall they should be very similar if not a small advantage to the RS imo.
7:12 on the .2 gt3 was with a different driver and relaid track surface, it's not directly comparable to the previous times imo.
- The downforce difference may not increase cornering speeds much on typical US tracks, since most corner speeds are under 100 mph
- Added downforce of the .1 RS may be coming at the expense of more drag and a disadvantage on fast straights
- The fatter torque curve of the .2 GT3 may make a significant difference
- Improved suspension and RWS tuning in the .2 GT3 may enable to extract a bit more grip from the tires
- Regarding the tires, extra width helps, but stickier rubber is a bigger factor (and we're assuming equal rubber for our comparison)
Maybe 7:14-7:15 is a better estimate for the .1 RS? I have some difficulty believing that the .1 RS is really a 7:12 or faster car when Porsche's official time is 7:20.
08-16-2018, 10:58 AM
#94
7:20 for the rs and 7:25 for the gt3 gen1s were with a different driver and different surface. That's my point. I think given 7:12 on the .2gt3, it's very probable lars kern would be take both cars around now a good bit quicker than the 'official ' numbers. How much faster I have no idea but someone like SportAuto could easily run the .2 cars back to back with the .1s on the same tyre (N1 gt3 and N2 rs) to have a 'true' comparison of the real chassis improvements. Which they won't as the headline numbers simply won't look as good as Porsche like to suggest.
08-16-2018, 11:10 AM
#95
And a few ceremonious hooligan donuts to break in the car haha. My best buds son got a drone and all he wanted was a donuts from above, so we went to a safe empty lot and i gave him some good footage to show his buddies, All in good fun and under safe conditions. No crowds to wipe out into ect ect, besides this isn't my first rodeo..........
Great write ups!
08-16-2018, 12:00 PM
#96
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7:20 for the rs and 7:25 for the gt3 gen1s were with a different driver and different surface. That's my point. I think given 7:12 on the .2gt3, it's very probable lars kern would be take both cars around now a good bit quicker than the 'official ' numbers. How much faster I have no idea but someone like SportAuto could easily run the .2 cars back to back with the .1s on the same tyre (N1 gt3 and N2 rs) to have a 'true' comparison of the real chassis improvements. Which they won't as the headline numbers simply won't look as good as Porsche like to suggest.
.1 GT3 7:20
.1 RS 7:13
.2 GT3 7:12
.2 RS 7:07
08-16-2018, 05:30 PM
#97
This is hilarious; history repeats itself. Every time Porsche releases a new or updated model everyone on RL spouts off about the how the new model is inferior and a step backwards compared to the prior model...which was oddly inferior to the prior model. Porsche is the only company on earth that remains viable despite releasing progressively inferior products year after year.
Although I don't own a GT3 yet, I completely agree with your characterization of this thread. If it makes you feel any better the Carrera( I currently own a .2 4S)forum is identical. When the .2 was released all the .1 guys with hurt ego's felt the need to bash the new .2 model nearly every chance they had. I'd love to see an open discussion between some of these guys and Porsche engineers and/or factory drivers. Like it or not Porsche just keeps improving their product.
08-16-2018, 05:36 PM
#98
I wonder how Porsche would respond to your 6 second 'real gap' sublimation between the .1 and .2. Maybe we could put helium in .1 tires and shave another second or two off...
08-16-2018, 05:45 PM
#99
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Porsche is in competition with other brands to sell new cars. They're not in competition with prior versions of their own cars, but us prospective buyers of the new cars would like to know how the performance really compares with the previous versions, so we can decide whether to upgrade, etc. Apples to apples (equal tires, etc.), IMO it's implausible that the .2 RS is really 23 secs faster than the .1 RS. That would make it 4-8 secs faster on a typical US track, which just isn't going to happen unless the tires are way grippier.
08-16-2018, 06:17 PM
#100
Porsche is in competition with other brands to sell new cars. They're not in competition with prior versions of their own cars, but us prospective buyers of the new cars would like to know how the performance really compares with the previous versions, so we can decide whether to upgrade, etc. Apples to apples (equal tires, etc.), IMO it's implausible that the .2 RS is really 23 secs faster than the .1 RS. That would make it 4-8 secs faster on a typical US track, which just isn't going to happen unless the tires are way grippier.
Fair enough. Comparing for the sake up a potential upgrade makes complete sense. Unfortunately some can use the same comparison excuse to walk new models back just to make themselves feel better.
08-16-2018, 06:29 PM
#101
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Yes, people do play mental games to justify purchases and non-purchases. I tend to be analytical about this stuff in an effort to improve my decision-making. I'm actually on my dealer's list for the .2 RS if further allocations come out, and I got on the list in part because of the 6:57 lap time. But as we continue discussing the lap times, I'm coming to the view that the delta between my .1 GT3 and the .2 RS is likely a lot smaller than I originally thought.
08-16-2018, 06:43 PM
#102
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Thread Starter
Porsche is in competition with other brands to sell new cars. They're not in competition with prior versions of their own cars, but us prospective buyers of the new cars would like to know how the performance really compares with the previous versions, so we can decide whether to upgrade, etc. Apples to apples (equal tires, etc.), IMO it's implausible that the .2 RS is really 23 secs faster than the .1 RS. That would make it 4-8 secs faster on a typical US track, which just isn't going to happen unless the tires are way grippier.
I do think that the .2RS is likely a second or two faster on your average US track. While this does not equate to a 24 second time differential on the Ring this is still a SUBSTANTIAL difference in pace. Between the horse power jump, torque jump, improvement in PDK, spring rates and Rose jointed suspension ( basically a Cup car suspension set up) there is no doubt the .2RS is quicker and faster on the aversge US track.
08-16-2018, 07:07 PM
#103
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bingo this is exactly why we won’t get a back to back comparison between the generations of 991 GT 3/RS. They want to sell cars .
I do think that the .2RS is likely a second or two faster on your average US track. While this does not equate to a 24 second time differential on the Ring this is still a SUBSTANTIAL difference in pace. Between the horse power jump, torque jump, improvement in PDK, spring rates and Rose jointed suspension ( basically a Cup car suspension set up) there is no doubt the .2RS is quicker and faster on the aversge US track.
08-16-2018, 10:00 PM
#104
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
I can tell you that a friend of mine who is running in the open pass group with me in NASA and HOD has a .1GT3 and runs about the same lap times as I do at NJMP in my Boss 302 Trans Am TA2... and he has his AC and seat coolers on. Some things are just not fair . My Boss runs in the .57s at Limerock to give you context.
08-16-2018, 10:20 PM
#105
Drifting
'Cheater tires' fantastic!
Although I don't own a GT3 yet, I completely agree with your characterization of this thread. If it makes you feel any better the Carrera( I currently own a .2 4S)forum is identical. When the .2 was released all the .1 guys with hurt ego's felt the need to bash the new .2 model nearly every chance they had. I'd love to see an open discussion between some of these guys and Porsche engineers and/or factory drivers. Like it or not Porsche just keeps improving their product.
Although I don't own a GT3 yet, I completely agree with your characterization of this thread. If it makes you feel any better the Carrera( I currently own a .2 4S)forum is identical. When the .2 was released all the .1 guys with hurt ego's felt the need to bash the new .2 model nearly every chance they had. I'd love to see an open discussion between some of these guys and Porsche engineers and/or factory drivers. Like it or not Porsche just keeps improving their product.
I have two European friends who just got a .2 GT3 RS; both also owned a .1 GT3 RS.
I asked both how much better the update is compared to the pre-facelift car:
One is a factory driver that I know well: “Uh, the color is different, but that’s about it. Don’t waste your money.”
One is a Piëch family member that I met at Le Mans: “Not so much to be honest; not mind blowing” (that’s verbatim)