Notices
991 GT3 GT3RS and 911R
Sponsored by:

GT2RS vs GT3 Cup Car

 
Old 07-30-2018, 10:57 PM
  #16  
Nizer
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Nizer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Beta Testing
Posts: 10,725
Default

Originally Posted by TRAKCAR View Post
I love this little challenge / experiment! If there is any car that can chase CUP cars it should be the GT2RS.
RA probably plays into the GT2RS cards a bit more then Hockenheim?
And to be fair, CUP cars at DE’s aren’t always Sellers :-)
Very interesting to see weight VS power VS slicks, PDK VS sequentual, RWS, SC, ABS...


Cup in video was driven by Christopher Zoechling, currently second in Porsche Carrera Cup standings. GT2 RS was Autobild test if not mistaken.

https://www.christopherzoechling.com/

Agree Road America plays to GT2 RS power advantage but still think Cup takes it.


Last edited by Nizer; 07-31-2018 at 07:38 PM.
Nizer is offline  
Old 07-30-2018, 10:58 PM
  #17  
alonge
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: South Florida
Posts: 33
Default

Lap record for a Gen 1 cup car around Road America on a yokohama is 2:11.8, the gen 2 will be about 2-3 seconds a lap faster than that depending on weather
alonge is offline  
Old 07-30-2018, 11:00 PM
  #18  
reidry
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Cocoa, FL
Posts: 1,593
Default

Originally Posted by SDGT3 View Post
Bryan Sellers #BryanSellers (One of the best GT Drivers in the country)

This is not yet official so if you are interested in seeing this happen share and like so we can get everyone on board.
Bryan is one he** of a driver and one of the coolest guys in racing. We’re still missing the Falken Tire RSR with Bryan at the helm; but on the other hand he and his new co-driver Madison Snow are tearing it up with Lamborghini!

Can’t wait to see how this plays out.


Ryan
reidry is offline  
Old 07-30-2018, 11:06 PM
  #19  
TRAKCAR
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
TRAKCAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 26,702
Default

So, what’s the 2014 CUP expected to run roughly 2:15?
If that’s right? I can compare to my own RA laps.
Im not very good at Road America and didn’t have fresh MPSC 2’s and ran 2:24’s last summer in a 3RS. Other drovers have certainly gone fasterer.
So driver, tires, aero, all a couple seconds worth? And than +200hp.. I think it’s possible to get damn close.
TRAKCAR is online now  
Old 07-30-2018, 11:20 PM
  #20  
alonge
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: South Florida
Posts: 33
Default

Correction to last post, Current Lap record for Gen 1 Cup at RA is 2:11.8 and the cup 2 record around Road America is 2:11.3, both cars on Yokohamas and 1 year apart in stock cup car configuration
alonge is offline  
Old 07-31-2018, 12:29 AM
  #21  
RODOLFO04
User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 321
Default

You both have to be in equal tires,

or Your test is worthless

as all the magazine test comparing cars with street tires vs r compound
RODOLFO04 is offline  
Old 07-31-2018, 01:13 AM
  #22  
CRex
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
CRex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NYC / HKG
Posts: 2,907
Default

Weight's an obvious variable: Cup is ~1,240kg. GT2RS adds ~190kg (most customer spec cars are 1,430+).

For a Cup with about 500bhp, every 10kg is about 0.15 to 0.2s over a 2:07-2:08 lap at Shanghai F1 (featuring two long straights and multiple long, technical sweepers), with a full pro behind the wheel. That gap will be smaller with 700bhp to play with, but I still reckon weight alone to be a 2.5-3.5s penalty.

Then there are tires. What will your cup run, and what will be the expected age of those tires? Mich N-Blues are about 1.5 to 2s faster than the more common S9L and (debatably) somewhat faster than Pirelli DH for our laps here. From DH to Trofeo R was 2.5 to 3s back in my days in the 997.2 RS. That's anywhere from 2.5 to 5s, all HIGHLY dependent on the Cup's rubber choice and lap count...

Lastly, power: the 991.2 Cup has +35bhps over the 991.1 and is largely similar in all other aspects (front axle's improved but can't quantify "feel"). Full-pros shaved 1.5 to 2s in testing. With a 200bhp delta and adjusted for a 15% weight difference, I'd guess that swings the 6-9 seconds in favor of the GT3RS.

Thus my potato math goes, with -ve numbers in favor of the cup:
  • Weight: -2.5 to -3.5
  • Tires: -2.5 to -5.0 (biggest wildcard here)
  • Power: +6.0 to +9.0
So for me it ain't entirely obvious that a 991.1 Cup will smoke the the GT2RS at RA. Quite the contrary, unless it's got fresh soft rubber I think the two cars will be within 2s of each other for the same pro.

Enough of geek math/conjectures already, show us pics when you get to the test and tell us the darn results already
CRex is offline  
Old 07-31-2018, 01:21 PM
  #23  
SDGT3
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
SDGT3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago, Illinois
Posts: 455
Default

Originally Posted by TRAKCAR View Post
Steve, no MPSC2 R from Michelin Marketing??
”From the track to the street technology”, no?



A GT3RS is more GT4CS speed. My guess is that a GT2RS on R tires and at a high speed track like RA is much faster than that.



+ one on a VBOX in both Steve!



I love this little challenge / experiment! If there is any car that can chase CUP cars it should be the GT2RS.
RA probably plays into the GT2RS cards a bit more then Hockenheim?
And to be fair, CUP cars at DE’s aren’t always Sellers :-)
Very interesting to see weight VS power VS slicks, PDK VS sequentual, RWS, SC, ABS...



Hell yes!!





I am very happy to see that this thread has sparked both debate and enthusiasm which I had hoped it would!!. I like the comment about " no more stitching discussions" LOL time to have some fun with these cars!!!

Bryan is the best candidate to test the cars and while I appreciate all the advice on telemetry and Cup Car selection, I am working with what I have. Should someone be at the track with 2 VBoxes to install I am happy to oblige.
SDGT3 is offline  
Old 07-31-2018, 03:29 PM
  #24  
A/S
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: U.S.
Posts: 358
Default

At Road America with plenty of high speed turns, my vote goes for the GT3 Cup (on Michelin stock slicks) beating the GT2RS (on MPSC2-R) by at least 6 seconds per lap.
A/S is online now  
Old 07-31-2018, 05:12 PM
  #25  
James-GMG
Basic Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor

 
James-GMG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,842
Default

Very cool comparison.....looking forward to the results.
Just a few thoughts....
-Although the 2RS will have over 200 more HP/TQ, the weight and the weight transfer of the car under braking and in corners like the carousel, will definitely hinder its performance.
-We have tested so many race cars vs street cars at Thermal and although it's a much tighter track, it's the braking that kills the street cars, with a lot of that having to do with the obvious tire difference.
-Rd Am will certainly allow the 2RS to stretch it's legs but there are a lot of long brake zones and I imagine the Cup braking well over 200 ft later in turns 1, 5 and 12....
-Make sure your 2RS has a harness bar and harnesses in it, that will help Bryan go a lot quicker......while feeling a lot safer!
-Bryan will have to do his bests laps in the first 3 runs on the new tires.....or that tire will fall off.
-I'm thinking the Cup will be 5 seconds faster than the GT2RS.....

Or you can wait until this comes out!! :-)



Good luck, keep us posted!!
__________________

James F. Sofronas | President & Owner
Global Motorsports Group ™
E: [email protected]
P: +1 (714) 432-1582
F: +1 (714) 432-1590
A: 3210 South Shannon Street, Santa Ana, California 92704
W: gmgracing.com
James-GMG is offline  
Old 07-31-2018, 07:03 PM
  #26  
StealthGT3
User
 
StealthGT3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: (905)
Posts: 64
Default

Originally Posted by RODOLFO04 View Post
You both have to be in equal tires,

or Your test is worthless

as all the magazine test comparing cars with street tires vs r compound
agreed, cars have to run same tires.
r compound tires alone are worth about 2 seconds per minute
If same tires RS would be 1 second + or - Cup Car.
StealthGT3 is online now  
Old 07-31-2018, 07:52 PM
  #27  
TRAKCAR
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
TRAKCAR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 26,702
Default

^^ Nonsense, why?

More fun to run the cars the way they come out of the box because that’s how the cars will most likely be configured when they meet at the local HPDE championship!

We need a VBOX tho
TRAKCAR is online now  
Old 08-01-2018, 02:10 AM
  #28  
RODOLFO04
User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 321
Default

Originally Posted by TRAKCAR View Post
^^ Nonsense, why?

More fun to run the cars the way they come out of the box because that’s how the cars will most likely be configured when they meet at the local HPDE championship!

We need a VBOX tho
the thing is, that if one runs slicks and the other runs cup 2s

then you are mostly comparing tires, NOT CARS

which is the main tópic to compare

that is why a nurburgring test with a carrera gts on michelin 4s vs a gt3 with cup 2s, is worthless, because the tires alone give a 4 second difference on a track that long

but hey what do i know

waiting on the results, have fun
RODOLFO04 is offline  
Old 08-01-2018, 02:12 AM
  #29  
RODOLFO04
User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 321
Default

Another thing

if the cup car runs the same time than the gt2, both with cup 2s

then you know all the diference is on the tires
RODOLFO04 is offline  
Old 08-01-2018, 12:12 PM
  #30  
hughp3
User
 
hughp3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Georgia
Posts: 543
Default

IMO Cups are engineered for Slicks. Why put street tires on a race car, makes no sense. The goal is to see what the difference is run "as is" is it not? Evo mag has already kinda done this btw. The tested RSR, Cup R, Cup and down the line to a street RS. interesting read.
hughp3 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: GT2RS vs GT3 Cup Car


Contact Us - About Us - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: