GT2RS vs GT3 Cup Car
07-30-2018, 10:57 PM
#16
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I love this little challenge / experiment! If there is any car that can chase CUP cars it should be the GT2RS.
RA probably plays into the GT2RS cards a bit more then Hockenheim?
And to be fair, CUP cars at DE’s aren’t always Sellers :-)
Very interesting to see weight VS power VS slicks, PDK VS sequentual, RWS, SC, ABS...
RA probably plays into the GT2RS cards a bit more then Hockenheim?
And to be fair, CUP cars at DE’s aren’t always Sellers :-)
Very interesting to see weight VS power VS slicks, PDK VS sequentual, RWS, SC, ABS...
Cup in video was driven by Christopher Zoechling, currently second in Porsche Carrera Cup standings. GT2 RS was Autobild test if not mistaken.
https://www.christopherzoechling.com/
Agree Road America plays to GT2 RS power advantage but still think Cup takes it.
Last edited by Nizer; 07-31-2018 at 07:38 PM.
07-30-2018, 11:00 PM
#18
Three Wheelin'
Bryan Sellers #BryanSellers (One of the best GT Drivers in the country)
This is not yet official so if you are interested in seeing this happen share and like so we can get everyone on board.
This is not yet official so if you are interested in seeing this happen share and like so we can get everyone on board.
Can’t wait to see how this plays out.
Ryan
07-30-2018, 11:06 PM
#19
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So, what’s the 2014 CUP expected to run roughly 2:15?
If that’s right? I can compare to my own RA laps.
Im not very good at Road America and didn’t have fresh MPSC 2’s and ran 2:24’s last summer in a 3RS. Other drovers have certainly gone fasterer.
So driver, tires, aero, all a couple seconds worth? And than +200hp.. I think it’s possible to get damn close.
If that’s right? I can compare to my own RA laps.
Im not very good at Road America and didn’t have fresh MPSC 2’s and ran 2:24’s last summer in a 3RS. Other drovers have certainly gone fasterer.
So driver, tires, aero, all a couple seconds worth? And than +200hp.. I think it’s possible to get damn close.
07-30-2018, 11:20 PM
#20
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Correction to last post, Current Lap record for Gen 1 Cup at RA is 2:11.8 and the cup 2 record around Road America is 2:11.3, both cars on Yokohamas and 1 year apart in stock cup car configuration
07-31-2018, 01:13 AM
#22
Rennlist Member
Weight's an obvious variable: Cup is ~1,240kg. GT2RS adds ~190kg (most customer spec cars are 1,430+).
For a Cup with about 500bhp, every 10kg is about 0.15 to 0.2s over a 2:07-2:08 lap at Shanghai F1 (featuring two long straights and multiple long, technical sweepers), with a full pro behind the wheel. That gap will be smaller with 700bhp to play with, but I still reckon weight alone to be a 2.5-3.5s penalty.
Then there are tires. What will your cup run, and what will be the expected age of those tires? Mich N-Blues are about 1.5 to 2s faster than the more common S9L and (debatably) somewhat faster than Pirelli DH for our laps here. From DH to Trofeo R was 2.5 to 3s back in my days in the 997.2 RS. That's anywhere from 2.5 to 5s, all HIGHLY dependent on the Cup's rubber choice and lap count...
Lastly, power: the 991.2 Cup has +35bhps over the 991.1 and is largely similar in all other aspects (front axle's improved but can't quantify "feel"). Full-pros shaved 1.5 to 2s in testing. With a 200bhp delta and adjusted for a 15% weight difference, I'd guess that swings the 6-9 seconds in favor of the GT3RS.
Thus my potato math goes, with -ve numbers in favor of the cup:
Enough of geek math/conjectures already, show us pics when you get to the test and tell us the darn results already
For a Cup with about 500bhp, every 10kg is about 0.15 to 0.2s over a 2:07-2:08 lap at Shanghai F1 (featuring two long straights and multiple long, technical sweepers), with a full pro behind the wheel. That gap will be smaller with 700bhp to play with, but I still reckon weight alone to be a 2.5-3.5s penalty.
Then there are tires. What will your cup run, and what will be the expected age of those tires? Mich N-Blues are about 1.5 to 2s faster than the more common S9L and (debatably) somewhat faster than Pirelli DH for our laps here. From DH to Trofeo R was 2.5 to 3s back in my days in the 997.2 RS. That's anywhere from 2.5 to 5s, all HIGHLY dependent on the Cup's rubber choice and lap count...
Lastly, power: the 991.2 Cup has +35bhps over the 991.1 and is largely similar in all other aspects (front axle's improved but can't quantify "feel"). Full-pros shaved 1.5 to 2s in testing. With a 200bhp delta and adjusted for a 15% weight difference, I'd guess that swings the 6-9 seconds in favor of the GT3RS.
Thus my potato math goes, with -ve numbers in favor of the cup:
- Weight: -2.5 to -3.5
- Tires: -2.5 to -5.0 (biggest wildcard here)
- Power: +6.0 to +9.0
Enough of geek math/conjectures already, show us pics when you get to the test and tell us the darn results already
07-31-2018, 01:21 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Steve, no MPSC2 R from Michelin Marketing??
”From the track to the street technology”, no?
A GT3RS is more GT4CS speed. My guess is that a GT2RS on R tires and at a high speed track like RA is much faster than that.
+ one on a VBOX in both Steve!
I love this little challenge / experiment! If there is any car that can chase CUP cars it should be the GT2RS.
RA probably plays into the GT2RS cards a bit more then Hockenheim?
And to be fair, CUP cars at DE’s aren’t always Sellers :-)
Very interesting to see weight VS power VS slicks, PDK VS sequentual, RWS, SC, ABS...
Hell yes!!
”From the track to the street technology”, no?
A GT3RS is more GT4CS speed. My guess is that a GT2RS on R tires and at a high speed track like RA is much faster than that.
+ one on a VBOX in both Steve!
I love this little challenge / experiment! If there is any car that can chase CUP cars it should be the GT2RS.
RA probably plays into the GT2RS cards a bit more then Hockenheim?
And to be fair, CUP cars at DE’s aren’t always Sellers :-)
Very interesting to see weight VS power VS slicks, PDK VS sequentual, RWS, SC, ABS...
Hell yes!!
I am very happy to see that this thread has sparked both debate and enthusiasm which I had hoped it would!!. I like the comment about " no more stitching discussions" LOL time to have some fun with these cars!!!
Bryan is the best candidate to test the cars and while I appreciate all the advice on telemetry and Cup Car selection, I am working with what I have. Should someone be at the track with 2 VBoxes to install I am happy to oblige.
07-31-2018, 03:29 PM
#24
Burning Brakes
At Road America with plenty of high speed turns, my vote goes for the GT3 Cup (on Michelin stock slicks) beating the GT2RS (on MPSC2-R) by at least 6 seconds per lap.
07-31-2018, 05:12 PM
#25
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Very cool comparison.....looking forward to the results.
Just a few thoughts....
-Although the 2RS will have over 200 more HP/TQ, the weight and the weight transfer of the car under braking and in corners like the carousel, will definitely hinder its performance.
-We have tested so many race cars vs street cars at Thermal and although it's a much tighter track, it's the braking that kills the street cars, with a lot of that having to do with the obvious tire difference.
-Rd Am will certainly allow the 2RS to stretch it's legs but there are a lot of long brake zones and I imagine the Cup braking well over 200 ft later in turns 1, 5 and 12....
-Make sure your 2RS has a harness bar and harnesses in it, that will help Bryan go a lot quicker......while feeling a lot safer!
-Bryan will have to do his bests laps in the first 3 runs on the new tires.....or that tire will fall off.
-I'm thinking the Cup will be 5 seconds faster than the GT2RS.....
Or you can wait until this comes out!! :-)
Good luck, keep us posted!!
Just a few thoughts....
-Although the 2RS will have over 200 more HP/TQ, the weight and the weight transfer of the car under braking and in corners like the carousel, will definitely hinder its performance.
-We have tested so many race cars vs street cars at Thermal and although it's a much tighter track, it's the braking that kills the street cars, with a lot of that having to do with the obvious tire difference.
-Rd Am will certainly allow the 2RS to stretch it's legs but there are a lot of long brake zones and I imagine the Cup braking well over 200 ft later in turns 1, 5 and 12....
-Make sure your 2RS has a harness bar and harnesses in it, that will help Bryan go a lot quicker......while feeling a lot safer!
-Bryan will have to do his bests laps in the first 3 runs on the new tires.....or that tire will fall off.
-I'm thinking the Cup will be 5 seconds faster than the GT2RS.....
Or you can wait until this comes out!! :-)
Good luck, keep us posted!!
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Global Motorsports Group ™
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07-31-2018, 07:03 PM
#26
r compound tires alone are worth about 2 seconds per minute
If same tires RS would be 1 second + or - Cup Car.
07-31-2018, 07:52 PM
#27
Rennlist Member
^^ Nonsense, why?
More fun to run the cars the way they come out of the box because that’s how the cars will most likely be configured when they meet at the local HPDE championship!
We need a VBOX tho
More fun to run the cars the way they come out of the box because that’s how the cars will most likely be configured when they meet at the local HPDE championship!
We need a VBOX tho
08-01-2018, 02:10 AM
#28
then you are mostly comparing tires, NOT CARS
which is the main tópic to compare
that is why a nurburgring test with a carrera gts on michelin 4s vs a gt3 with cup 2s, is worthless, because the tires alone give a 4 second difference on a track that long
but hey what do i know
waiting on the results, have fun
08-01-2018, 12:12 PM
#30
IMO Cups are engineered for Slicks. Why put street tires on a race car, makes no sense. The goal is to see what the difference is run "as is" is it not? Evo mag has already kinda done this btw. The tested RSR, Cup R, Cup and down the line to a street RS. interesting read.
