GT3.2 - too much for street fun?
07-28-2018, 10:24 PM
#61
Three Wheelin'
Fully agree that this car is way too much for the street and it forces into serious judgement lapses . At 130 on a public road I would be having visions of reckless driving charges and an impounded car!
07-28-2018, 10:40 PM
#62
Three Wheelin'
Miata Man and I need to start a company, we’ll call it Grumpy Cars. A service for Grumpy Old Men, just call us and we bring a truckload of 10 sec 0 to 60 cars for you to take your pick from. A couple of Miatas, a Prius, a Beetle, maybe something from Smart. When the deal is done we will take your sports car away so you’ll never be tempted again!
And don’t tell me a Cayman / Boxster would be better, my Cayman R cruises at 90 and begs for more, so that is definitely too fast.
Ryan
And don’t tell me a Cayman / Boxster would be better, my Cayman R cruises at 90 and begs for more, so that is definitely too fast.
Ryan
07-29-2018, 06:25 PM
#63
Rennlist Member
If we’d have any roads worth driving I’d have never sold my RSA.
When we move and I want something manual, a well sorted 964 hot rod over anything that came after please.
For the track a GT3RS PDK, once the NA ends, there will be loads of Turbo’s to pick from to go faster...
07-29-2018, 07:07 PM
#64
If we’d have any roads worth driving I’d have never sold my RSA.
When we move and I want something manual, a well sorted 964 hot rod over anything that came after please.
For the track a GT3RS PDK, once the NA ends, there will be loads of Turbo’s to pick from to go faster...
When we move and I want something manual, a well sorted 964 hot rod over anything that came after please.
For the track a GT3RS PDK, once the NA ends, there will be loads of Turbo’s to pick from to go faster...
08-03-2018, 06:18 PM
#65
... as cars get faster, the next incremental increase in power DOES become less critical to how good the car is. Handling, braking, noise, responsiveness, etc all become more and more important compared to power as the critical components of a great drivers car. Fortunately Porsche was thoughtful enough to bless the GT3 with all of them in spades.
I do love classic analog cars too though.
I do love classic analog cars too though.
I had a GT4 and loved the brakes (steel) but the steering felt artificial and in the wet gave no sense of grip. The motor had plenty of torque but combined with the tall gearing felt flat in the upper reaches of 3rd gear. To get an inspiring sound you had to have the windows down and the loud exhaust button pushed.
I sold it and bought a 997 RS 4.0, which so far I've only driven on the road. It doesn't comply with the noise limits of tracks in my region - it's bizarre that some tracks have lower limits than the road - but I live in the Alps so the roads are no hardship. Yes you can use maximum revs in the 4.0 much less often than in the GT4 but the car is far more thrilling at any speed. It makes a much more authentic, musical, loud and exciting sound and feels so much more alive: more inertia-free; more on its toes; it writhes more out of a corner under full power; has more progressive breakaway; more understeer to manage in hairpins; a more challenging gearshift (heavier, notchier and lighter flywheel); and steering that feels mechanically connected and provides detailed feedback.
Although the power of many cars has become irrelevant, 500hp is useful for overtaking, an increasingly common necessity. However even though the 997 has less grip than a 991 you do need just the right sort of corner to get it sliding on the road so I am planning to try PS4Ss instead of Cup 2s at the next tyre change. The problem with the 991 on the road is not too much power but too much grip and less analogue sensory rewards.
08-03-2018, 06:37 PM
#66
+ 1/2
The Dragon is an experience, however IMHO there are roads in that area that are much better. I've been to 7 Smokies GT events, somehow we find a new, awesome road each time.
If you haven't see "Feast for the Senses" that Porsche put out when the 991.1, it's worth the watch.
https://youtu.be/Xfi__aUgfgE
These cars are about exciting every human sense, some might say that the 991.2 adds a little more when equipped with a manual. The GT3 is an especially focused road car that is extremely track capable. The car is at it's best on a twisty back road. There are very few other cars that can keep up in the mountains and few other cars that can go lap after lap on track all day, all weekend.
I own a Spec Miata. While hammering the brakes going into Turn 17 at Sebring is a rush; acceleration is pretty sedate.
Ryan
The Dragon is an experience, however IMHO there are roads in that area that are much better. I've been to 7 Smokies GT events, somehow we find a new, awesome road each time.
If you haven't see "Feast for the Senses" that Porsche put out when the 991.1, it's worth the watch.
https://youtu.be/Xfi__aUgfgE
These cars are about exciting every human sense, some might say that the 991.2 adds a little more when equipped with a manual. The GT3 is an especially focused road car that is extremely track capable. The car is at it's best on a twisty back road. There are very few other cars that can keep up in the mountains and few other cars that can go lap after lap on track all day, all weekend.
I own a Spec Miata. While hammering the brakes going into Turn 17 at Sebring is a rush; acceleration is pretty sedate.
Ryan
The 991 GT3 thrives on the track - the harder you drive it, the better it is. I would even say that the GT3 is kind of boring when driven on track at 7/10ths and wants to be cranked up further (of course, the driver needs to be capable of doing so, which requires significant track experience).
Most other cars reveal their weaknesses (suspension too floppy, brakes not good enough, etc.) once you start to push them hard on the track. For example, the Cayman R is more fun on the road than the GT3, but on track near 10/10ths, the Cayman R is crap compared to the GT3 (I've driven them both back to back on track). I would even say that the GT4 begins to show weaknesses when pushed above about 8/10ths, hence a lot of track guys changing alignment, etc. with the GT4, but no need to do that with the GT3, and I generally find the GT4 to be more fun on the road than the GT3.
Most other cars reveal their weaknesses (suspension too floppy, brakes not good enough, etc.) once you start to push them hard on the track. For example, the Cayman R is more fun on the road than the GT3, but on track near 10/10ths, the Cayman R is crap compared to the GT3 (I've driven them both back to back on track). I would even say that the GT4 begins to show weaknesses when pushed above about 8/10ths, hence a lot of track guys changing alignment, etc. with the GT4, but no need to do that with the GT3, and I generally find the GT4 to be more fun on the road than the GT3.
Amen!!
08-03-2018, 06:40 PM
#67
Race Director
It is a daily struggle, even with 100hp less up here in Colorado. Let’s just say 40 to 90 mph comes very quickly with these cars. So easy to get in trouble. I have put about 26,000 mikes on mine over the past 2.5 years about i am lucky i have no tickets. Miracle actually.
08-03-2018, 07:04 PM
#68
The answer is pre-991 GT3s: analogue steering (front and rear); analogue drivetrains (with PSM and TC off); and analogue gearboxes combined with amazing, naturally aspirated engines.
I sold it and bought a 997 RS 4.0, which so far I've only driven on the road. It doesn't comply with the noise limits of tracks in my region - it's bizarre that some tracks have lower limits than the road - but I live in the Alps so the roads are no hardship. Yes you can use maximum revs in the 4.0 much less often than in the GT4 but the car is far more thrilling at any speed. It makes a much more authentic, musical, loud and exciting sound and feels so much more alive: more inertia-free; more on its toes; it writhes more out of a corner under full power; has more progressive breakaway; more understeer to manage in hairpins; a more challenging gearshift (heavier, notchier and lighter flywheel); and steering that feels mechanically connected and provides detailed feedback.
I sold it and bought a 997 RS 4.0, which so far I've only driven on the road. It doesn't comply with the noise limits of tracks in my region - it's bizarre that some tracks have lower limits than the road - but I live in the Alps so the roads are no hardship. Yes you can use maximum revs in the 4.0 much less often than in the GT4 but the car is far more thrilling at any speed. It makes a much more authentic, musical, loud and exciting sound and feels so much more alive: more inertia-free; more on its toes; it writhes more out of a corner under full power; has more progressive breakaway; more understeer to manage in hairpins; a more challenging gearshift (heavier, notchier and lighter flywheel); and steering that feels mechanically connected and provides detailed feedback.
08-03-2018, 07:42 PM
#69
Rennlist Member
08-04-2018, 07:37 AM
#70
I’m jealous! I’ve been thinking about maybe a 997 gt3 (non-rs because I don’t have that kind of money). My manual 360 only partially sated my need for a stick shift car that the pdk 991 gave me because it just doesn’t have the everyday usability that Porsches do. So I’ve been thinking about maybe adding a 997 gt3 or manual v8 vantage next. Or a Viper, I wish I had $$$ to just get them all. In blue obviously.
08-04-2018, 07:57 AM
#71
Rennlist Member
I’ve been looking at V8 Aston just for the V8 manual and looks.
But I live in the wrong part of the world to be able to enjoy it on the road and It would self distruct after 2 corners at Sebring.
I did daily drive my 997GT3 and two 997RS, even my 4.0 from 2008-2013.
I went from 4.0 to 964RSA, it was hot rodded and it was a fantastic car.
Probably if I hadn’t crashed it racing (fixed it) I would still have it today.
My next old car I hope is a euro 964RS.
If we had the roads, it would be another hot rod 964.
But I live in the wrong part of the world to be able to enjoy it on the road and It would self distruct after 2 corners at Sebring.
I did daily drive my 997GT3 and two 997RS, even my 4.0 from 2008-2013.
I went from 4.0 to 964RSA, it was hot rodded and it was a fantastic car.
Probably if I hadn’t crashed it racing (fixed it) I would still have it today.
My next old car I hope is a euro 964RS.
If we had the roads, it would be another hot rod 964.
08-04-2018, 08:45 AM
#73
Rennlist Member
The 997 3.8RS VS 4.0, I preferred the suspension of the 3.8RS at Sebring. I drove another 4.0 (Back when everyone had one LOL!) and it was the same, so not just mine.
Of course the 4.0 power delivery was much better because it doesn’t have that hiccup in the powerband thy the 3.8 has.
The 4.0 could have a little more angle on the wing, but I ran Barron taller uprights on both, (see picture) so that was the same.
I ran same motor sport diff in all of them.
Otherwise I could only notice a difference on track stepping back into the 3.8RS after driving the 4.0; the 3.8RS felt slow, specially at lower RPM.
And I could never quite get over the whorehouse red ceiling ;-)
Then I got my 964RSA; when I bought it, it was a racecar, cage, fuel cell, CUP suspension, regeared gearbox, LSD, winged, splitter, it was both full street legal and PCA race legal. My first aircooled.
It drove wonderful. Loud with straight pipes and quiet with a Sport muffler.
No vibration, lovely to drive with windows down, it had great suspension, no power steering, no sunroof.
I took it to Sebring as soon as I got it and I couldn’t believe how similar it drove.
From 1993 to 2013, after 20 years the driving was so similar! Same brake points, same shift points the lap just took 8 seconds longer :-)
But Sebring all of a sudden became 2’ wider, haha.
Great cabin, seating position, sweet G50 box (Porsche’s best) ABS, proper suspension, even proper AC, just enough power to really enjoy it to the fullest on the road and I love how they look inside and out.
My interior was all original and stock, except the race seats and I put a custom welded cage in it.
So for the track RS PDK, if I go back to analog, I know where I’m going and I’ve never even driven a 964RS.
08-04-2018, 10:55 AM
#74
Rennlist Member
While I don’t have a 991 GT3, I have a similar sentiment towards my 997.2 GT3 once I started tracking it regularly. It’s kinda boring on the street now that I know what it’s capable of. I have a modified 964 C2 to compliment the gt3.. I find the 964 WAY more entertaining to drive on the street given its performance is more accessible at sane speeds.
08-04-2018, 01:40 PM
#75
TRAKCAR, what did you prefer about the 3.8 RS suspension over the 4.0s? Do the race seats give much extra headroom in the 964? I had a 911SC with standard seats and was a bit short on headroom.