For all you manual romantics out there
06-06-2018, 02:30 PM
#16
Drifting
I have two problems with the car.
First is the noise inside. Its loud (and I don't mind loud) but its a highly unpleasant loud. Not something you want to subject yourself to for a long period. And related to the noise issue is the exhaust. In the GT3.2 PDK, you can more more easily dip into the flaps opening zone of 3,600+ rpm (and hence a nicer sound) in 1st, 2nd and 3rd because of the slightly shorter gearing in the PDK due to the extra gear. Also, you get a nice "pfuump" sound when the PDK changes up at these lower revs. I.e. you get to enjoy the sound of the car at much lower speeds in the PDK. But in the manual, its a lot harder to dip into that nice exhaust zone because of the higher gearing when driving around town. And you don't get the nice "pfuump" sound on upshift. This issue is compounded too I think by the fact that in my observation, the flaps open slightly later in the manual compared to the PDK. So at anything under 4000 rpm in the GT3T, it just feels like a regular Carrera. Whereas I always feel like I am driving something special in the GT3.2 PDK.
Second is the manual gearbox. I do not like the 4th to 5th, 5th to 6th or 6th to 5th changes. The detente is so strongly biased to the 3-4 position that you really have to be very deliberate with:
- the 4 to 5 up shift where you really have to push the shifter much too deliberately to the right and up. If you don't, you end up in 3rd.
- the 5 to 6 up shift where you have to (at least I do) alter your hand position on the knot to make sure you pull back and down to get 6th otherwise you end up in 4th far too easily
- the 6 to 5 down shift where you have to make sure you have some sideways force in up shift motion otherwise it will naturally fall into 3rd too easily.
And I am not the first person who has driven that car and commented on this.
And just to be clear, I do not have any of these issues with my 997 GT3 RS or my 964 RS (which admittedly is not a 6th spd box).
IMHO, my GT3.2 is a much better tourer than my GT3T. And so is my 997 GT3 RS for that matter. Instead of the GT3T being the first car my mind goes to when thinking about a long trip, its actually the last.
First is the noise inside. Its loud (and I don't mind loud) but its a highly unpleasant loud. Not something you want to subject yourself to for a long period. And related to the noise issue is the exhaust. In the GT3.2 PDK, you can more more easily dip into the flaps opening zone of 3,600+ rpm (and hence a nicer sound) in 1st, 2nd and 3rd because of the slightly shorter gearing in the PDK due to the extra gear. Also, you get a nice "pfuump" sound when the PDK changes up at these lower revs. I.e. you get to enjoy the sound of the car at much lower speeds in the PDK. But in the manual, its a lot harder to dip into that nice exhaust zone because of the higher gearing when driving around town. And you don't get the nice "pfuump" sound on upshift. This issue is compounded too I think by the fact that in my observation, the flaps open slightly later in the manual compared to the PDK. So at anything under 4000 rpm in the GT3T, it just feels like a regular Carrera. Whereas I always feel like I am driving something special in the GT3.2 PDK.
Second is the manual gearbox. I do not like the 4th to 5th, 5th to 6th or 6th to 5th changes. The detente is so strongly biased to the 3-4 position that you really have to be very deliberate with:
- the 4 to 5 up shift where you really have to push the shifter much too deliberately to the right and up. If you don't, you end up in 3rd.
- the 5 to 6 up shift where you have to (at least I do) alter your hand position on the knot to make sure you pull back and down to get 6th otherwise you end up in 4th far too easily
- the 6 to 5 down shift where you have to make sure you have some sideways force in up shift motion otherwise it will naturally fall into 3rd too easily.
And I am not the first person who has driven that car and commented on this.
And just to be clear, I do not have any of these issues with my 997 GT3 RS or my 964 RS (which admittedly is not a 6th spd box).
IMHO, my GT3.2 is a much better tourer than my GT3T. And so is my 997 GT3 RS for that matter. Instead of the GT3T being the first car my mind goes to when thinking about a long trip, its actually the last.
That said, I have noticed the additional focus required to cleanly shift from 4 to 5 to 6 and back down, as you say. However, where I differ is... I just don't care. It really isn't a big deal. And frankly, it really is nitpicking. Like you need to be actively hunting to find something to complain about to point out it's slightly more difficult to hit a 4-5 shift. All it takes is a little more sideways pressure. Is it something to think about? Yes. Does it really bother me enough to want to get rid of the car? Hell no.
RE: induction sound on shifts between PDK and manual. Keep in mind your car is a Touring. The inductions sound is slightly different compared to a winged version. My manual GT3.2 (with wing), sounds the same as a PDK (with wing). It has all those "fwhap" and "untsss" induction sounds when you shift and blip the throttle. I can't speak to the Touring, as I've not driven one. But I've driven a few GT3s and GT3RSs and they all sounded about the same to me. *shrug*
06-06-2018, 04:20 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
I guess aural sensations and preferences are very different among people. I find the GT3 too quiet, so I got the Sharkwerks, but when I got my Touring, I decided to try a different center-muffler pipe which has a cross section connecting the gases between left and right pipe, and it is very noticeably louder but in a pleasant way. The two cars are similarly loud at around 3600 rpm with Sport Exhaust button activated, but aside from that, the Touring with the louder exhaust just has a louder tone that is on all the time from idle and up through the rev range. I don't even hit the Sport Exhaust button on that car most of the time. I love how my Touring sounds with the new pipe, and have taken day trips many times with that car. The "Wing" car with Sharkwerks is loud only at idle and around 3600 rpm with Sport Exhaust button activated. BTW, I used a decibel meter to measure both at idle and at 3000 rpm, and my Touring with the louder exhaust has a higher average decibel but same peak decibel.
I am not saying the Touring is louder or quieter than the Wing car; just that with a noticeably louder exhaust, the Touring for my tastes is perfect for aural excitement and also for long trips.
I am not saying the Touring is louder or quieter than the Wing car; just that with a noticeably louder exhaust, the Touring for my tastes is perfect for aural excitement and also for long trips.
I have two problems with the car.
First is the noise inside. Its loud (and I don't mind loud) but its a highly unpleasant loud. Not something you want to subject yourself to for a long period. And related to the noise issue is the exhaust. In the GT3.2 PDK, you can more more easily dip into the flaps opening zone of 3,600+ rpm (and hence a nicer sound) in 1st, 2nd and 3rd because of the slightly shorter gearing in the PDK due to the extra gear. Also, you get a nice "pfuump" sound when the PDK changes up at these lower revs. I.e. you get to enjoy the sound of the car at much lower speeds in the PDK. But in the manual, its a lot harder to dip into that nice exhaust zone because of the higher gearing when driving around town. And you don't get the nice "pfuump" sound on upshift. This issue is compounded too I think by the fact that in my observation, the flaps open slightly later in the manual compared to the PDK. So at anything under 4000 rpm in the GT3T, it just feels like a regular Carrera. Whereas I always feel like I am driving something special in the GT3.2 PDK.
Second is the manual gearbox. I do not like the 4th to 5th, 5th to 6th or 6th to 5th changes. The detente is so strongly biased to the 3-4 position that you really have to be very deliberate with:
- the 4 to 5 up shift where you really have to push the shifter much too deliberately to the right and up. If you don't, you end up in 3rd.
- the 5 to 6 up shift where you have to (at least I do) alter your hand position on the knot to make sure you pull back and down to get 6th otherwise you end up in 4th far too easily
- the 6 to 5 down shift where you have to make sure you have some sideways force in up shift motion otherwise it will naturally fall into 3rd too easily.
And I am not the first person who has driven that car and commented on this.
And just to be clear, I do not have any of these issues with my 997 GT3 RS or my 964 RS (which admittedly is not a 6th spd box).
IMHO, my GT3.2 is a much better tourer than my GT3T. And so is my 997 GT3 RS for that matter. Instead of the GT3T being the first car my mind goes to when thinking about a long trip, its actually the last.
First is the noise inside. Its loud (and I don't mind loud) but its a highly unpleasant loud. Not something you want to subject yourself to for a long period. And related to the noise issue is the exhaust. In the GT3.2 PDK, you can more more easily dip into the flaps opening zone of 3,600+ rpm (and hence a nicer sound) in 1st, 2nd and 3rd because of the slightly shorter gearing in the PDK due to the extra gear. Also, you get a nice "pfuump" sound when the PDK changes up at these lower revs. I.e. you get to enjoy the sound of the car at much lower speeds in the PDK. But in the manual, its a lot harder to dip into that nice exhaust zone because of the higher gearing when driving around town. And you don't get the nice "pfuump" sound on upshift. This issue is compounded too I think by the fact that in my observation, the flaps open slightly later in the manual compared to the PDK. So at anything under 4000 rpm in the GT3T, it just feels like a regular Carrera. Whereas I always feel like I am driving something special in the GT3.2 PDK.
Second is the manual gearbox. I do not like the 4th to 5th, 5th to 6th or 6th to 5th changes. The detente is so strongly biased to the 3-4 position that you really have to be very deliberate with:
- the 4 to 5 up shift where you really have to push the shifter much too deliberately to the right and up. If you don't, you end up in 3rd.
- the 5 to 6 up shift where you have to (at least I do) alter your hand position on the knot to make sure you pull back and down to get 6th otherwise you end up in 4th far too easily
- the 6 to 5 down shift where you have to make sure you have some sideways force in up shift motion otherwise it will naturally fall into 3rd too easily.
And I am not the first person who has driven that car and commented on this.
And just to be clear, I do not have any of these issues with my 997 GT3 RS or my 964 RS (which admittedly is not a 6th spd box).
IMHO, my GT3.2 is a much better tourer than my GT3T. And so is my 997 GT3 RS for that matter. Instead of the GT3T being the first car my mind goes to when thinking about a long trip, its actually the last.
06-06-2018, 08:17 PM
#20
Racer
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I have two problems with the car.
First is the noise inside. Its loud (and I don't mind loud) but its a highly unpleasant loud. Not something you want to subject yourself to for a long period. And related to the noise issue is the exhaust. In the GT3.2 PDK, you can more more easily dip into the flaps opening zone of 3,600+ rpm (and hence a nicer sound) in 1st, 2nd and 3rd because of the slightly shorter gearing in the PDK due to the extra gear. Also, you get a nice "pfuump" sound when the PDK changes up at these lower revs. I.e. you get to enjoy the sound of the car at much lower speeds in the PDK. But in the manual, its a lot harder to dip into that nice exhaust zone because of the higher gearing when driving around town. And you don't get the nice "pfuump" sound on upshift. This issue is compounded too I think by the fact that in my observation, the flaps open slightly later in the manual compared to the PDK. So at anything under 4000 rpm in the GT3T, it just feels like a regular Carrera. Whereas I always feel like I am driving something special in the GT3.2 PDK.
Second is the manual gearbox. I do not like the 4th to 5th, 5th to 6th or 6th to 5th changes. The detente is so strongly biased to the 3-4 position that you really have to be very deliberate with:
- the 4 to 5 up shift where you really have to push the shifter much too deliberately to the right and up. If you don't, you end up in 3rd.
- the 5 to 6 up shift where you have to (at least I do) alter your hand position on the knot to make sure you pull back and down to get 6th otherwise you end up in 4th far too easily
- the 6 to 5 down shift where you have to make sure you have some sideways force in up shift motion otherwise it will naturally fall into 3rd too easily.
And I am not the first person who has driven that car and commented on this.
And just to be clear, I do not have any of these issues with my 997 GT3 RS or my 964 RS (which admittedly is not a 6th spd box).
IMHO, my GT3.2 is a much better tourer than my GT3T. And so is my 997 GT3 RS for that matter. Instead of the GT3T being the first car my mind goes to when thinking about a long trip, its actually the last.
First is the noise inside. Its loud (and I don't mind loud) but its a highly unpleasant loud. Not something you want to subject yourself to for a long period. And related to the noise issue is the exhaust. In the GT3.2 PDK, you can more more easily dip into the flaps opening zone of 3,600+ rpm (and hence a nicer sound) in 1st, 2nd and 3rd because of the slightly shorter gearing in the PDK due to the extra gear. Also, you get a nice "pfuump" sound when the PDK changes up at these lower revs. I.e. you get to enjoy the sound of the car at much lower speeds in the PDK. But in the manual, its a lot harder to dip into that nice exhaust zone because of the higher gearing when driving around town. And you don't get the nice "pfuump" sound on upshift. This issue is compounded too I think by the fact that in my observation, the flaps open slightly later in the manual compared to the PDK. So at anything under 4000 rpm in the GT3T, it just feels like a regular Carrera. Whereas I always feel like I am driving something special in the GT3.2 PDK.
Second is the manual gearbox. I do not like the 4th to 5th, 5th to 6th or 6th to 5th changes. The detente is so strongly biased to the 3-4 position that you really have to be very deliberate with:
- the 4 to 5 up shift where you really have to push the shifter much too deliberately to the right and up. If you don't, you end up in 3rd.
- the 5 to 6 up shift where you have to (at least I do) alter your hand position on the knot to make sure you pull back and down to get 6th otherwise you end up in 4th far too easily
- the 6 to 5 down shift where you have to make sure you have some sideways force in up shift motion otherwise it will naturally fall into 3rd too easily.
And I am not the first person who has driven that car and commented on this.
And just to be clear, I do not have any of these issues with my 997 GT3 RS or my 964 RS (which admittedly is not a 6th spd box).
IMHO, my GT3.2 is a much better tourer than my GT3T. And so is my 997 GT3 RS for that matter. Instead of the GT3T being the first car my mind goes to when thinking about a long trip, its actually the last.
06-06-2018, 11:29 PM
#21
RL Community Team
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Rennlist Member
Henry’s the best!
06-07-2018, 12:13 AM
#23
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
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I have two problems with the car.
First is the noise inside. Its loud (and I don't mind loud) but its a highly unpleasant loud. Not something you want to subject yourself to for a long period. And related to the noise issue is the exhaust. In the GT3.2 PDK, you can more more easily dip into the flaps opening zone of 3,600+ rpm (and hence a nicer sound) in 1st, 2nd and 3rd because of the slightly shorter gearing in the PDK due to the extra gear. Also, you get a nice "pfuump" sound when the PDK changes up at these lower revs. I.e. you get to enjoy the sound of the car at much lower speeds in the PDK. But in the manual, its a lot harder to dip into that nice exhaust zone because of the higher gearing when driving around town. And you don't get the nice "pfuump" sound on upshift. This issue is compounded too I think by the fact that in my observation, the flaps open slightly later in the manual compared to the PDK. So at anything under 4000 rpm in the GT3T, it just feels like a regular Carrera. Whereas I always feel like I am driving something special in the GT3.2 PDK.
Second is the manual gearbox. I do not like the 4th to 5th, 5th to 6th or 6th to 5th changes. The detente is so strongly biased to the 3-4 position that you really have to be very deliberate with:
- the 4 to 5 up shift where you really have to push the shifter much too deliberately to the right and up. If you don't, you end up in 3rd.
- the 5 to 6 up shift where you have to (at least I do) alter your hand position on the knot to make sure you pull back and down to get 6th otherwise you end up in 4th far too easily
- the 6 to 5 down shift where you have to make sure you have some sideways force in up shift motion otherwise it will naturally fall into 3rd too easily.
And I am not the first person who has driven that car and commented on this.
And just to be clear, I do not have any of these issues with my 997 GT3 RS or my 964 RS (which admittedly is not a 6th spd box).
IMHO, my GT3.2 is a much better tourer than my GT3T. And so is my 997 GT3 RS for that matter. Instead of the GT3T being the first car my mind goes to when thinking about a long trip, its actually the last.
First is the noise inside. Its loud (and I don't mind loud) but its a highly unpleasant loud. Not something you want to subject yourself to for a long period. And related to the noise issue is the exhaust. In the GT3.2 PDK, you can more more easily dip into the flaps opening zone of 3,600+ rpm (and hence a nicer sound) in 1st, 2nd and 3rd because of the slightly shorter gearing in the PDK due to the extra gear. Also, you get a nice "pfuump" sound when the PDK changes up at these lower revs. I.e. you get to enjoy the sound of the car at much lower speeds in the PDK. But in the manual, its a lot harder to dip into that nice exhaust zone because of the higher gearing when driving around town. And you don't get the nice "pfuump" sound on upshift. This issue is compounded too I think by the fact that in my observation, the flaps open slightly later in the manual compared to the PDK. So at anything under 4000 rpm in the GT3T, it just feels like a regular Carrera. Whereas I always feel like I am driving something special in the GT3.2 PDK.
Second is the manual gearbox. I do not like the 4th to 5th, 5th to 6th or 6th to 5th changes. The detente is so strongly biased to the 3-4 position that you really have to be very deliberate with:
- the 4 to 5 up shift where you really have to push the shifter much too deliberately to the right and up. If you don't, you end up in 3rd.
- the 5 to 6 up shift where you have to (at least I do) alter your hand position on the knot to make sure you pull back and down to get 6th otherwise you end up in 4th far too easily
- the 6 to 5 down shift where you have to make sure you have some sideways force in up shift motion otherwise it will naturally fall into 3rd too easily.
And I am not the first person who has driven that car and commented on this.
And just to be clear, I do not have any of these issues with my 997 GT3 RS or my 964 RS (which admittedly is not a 6th spd box).
IMHO, my GT3.2 is a much better tourer than my GT3T. And so is my 997 GT3 RS for that matter. Instead of the GT3T being the first car my mind goes to when thinking about a long trip, its actually the last.
the rest.... meh.
i do have manual 9912gt3. it's easier to sell the the manual romantic at 50+ msrp ;-)
it will be for sale soon. PTS of course muahahhaaha
06-07-2018, 12:27 AM
#24
06-07-2018, 12:32 AM
#25
man, no love for manual GT3s here lol
I am extremely happy with the shifter. Yes, it is not perfect, but damn is it entertaining and brings a smile to my face.
The points Chris discusses are valid; however, i can live with these faults. Others, can’t. Nothing wrong with that. It’s hard to pump R&D money developing an archaic technology that is manual transmission. It’s like developing a hand crank starter.
Manual trannies are now the marmite of the car industry.
I am extremely happy with the shifter. Yes, it is not perfect, but damn is it entertaining and brings a smile to my face.
The points Chris discusses are valid; however, i can live with these faults. Others, can’t. Nothing wrong with that. It’s hard to pump R&D money developing an archaic technology that is manual transmission. It’s like developing a hand crank starter.
Manual trannies are now the marmite of the car industry.
06-07-2018, 12:48 AM
#26
Rennlist Member
took the words out of my mouth.
yes. 997/996 clutch or 964 993 clutch. but not many have driven all the variants from past thus thing manual is it.
the ENGINE is really really good.
the rest.... meh.
i do have manual 9912gt3. it's easier to sell the the manual romantic at 50+ msrp ;-)
it will be for sale soon. PTS of course muahahhaaha
yes. 997/996 clutch or 964 993 clutch. but not many have driven all the variants from past thus thing manual is it.
the ENGINE is really really good.
the rest.... meh.
i do have manual 9912gt3. it's easier to sell the the manual romantic at 50+ msrp ;-)
it will be for sale soon. PTS of course muahahhaaha
Personally hated the 997.2 clutch effort. For fast shifting it was fine, but never a fan of the 997 manual transmission for many reasons: gearbox linkage, the fact the transmission needed a flush almost after every track weekend to stay smooth, and let's not talk about the diff made of cardboard and the synchros made of soft brass!
man, no love for manual GT3s here lol
I am extremely happy with the shifter. Yes, it is not perfect, but damn is it entertaining and brings a smile to my face.
The points Chris discusses are valid; however, i can live with these faults. Others, can’t. Nothing wrong with that. It’s hard to pump R&D money developing an archaic technology that is manual transmission. It’s like developing a hand crank starter.
Manual trannies are now the marmite of the car industry.
I am extremely happy with the shifter. Yes, it is not perfect, but damn is it entertaining and brings a smile to my face.
The points Chris discusses are valid; however, i can live with these faults. Others, can’t. Nothing wrong with that. It’s hard to pump R&D money developing an archaic technology that is manual transmission. It’s like developing a hand crank starter.
Manual trannies are now the marmite of the car industry.
Learned taste and not for everyone.
If it's like a manual GT3, then I'll eat it.
06-07-2018, 01:06 AM
#28
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I've always wondered what Henry would look like bald.
06-07-2018, 01:52 AM
#30
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
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montoya,
i like the clutch on 7 hated the shifter.
i liek the shifter on GT4/9912GT3 and 991R hated the clutch
one day they will get it right
i like the clutch on 7 hated the shifter.
i liek the shifter on GT4/9912GT3 and 991R hated the clutch
one day they will get it right