Performance Developments

Over the last 2 years we have developed as semi 'bolt in" solution to this problem changing over the finger to solid from Hydraulic. This has been done in conjunction with Dundon Motorsport. I have read a lot of the posts where it was suggested that we didn't understand the problem, had no idea how to fix it and we where a 3 man shop verses millions of engineers. The only correct part of that is, we do not have millions of engineers at work on this. But, the money spent on this could have bought Jamie and I, a small country.

In a couple of days we will show the new parts bolted into a 991 cylinder head. The final machining is being completed on new Cylinder heads. All the new valve train parts have been in house for some time, but we have being hard at work designing and making all new Crankshafts, Connecting Rods, Pistons, etc for this engine. This not something that that is easy to do, quick to make happen and takes days to make. It is not our only work, we have to do other work to pay the bills and everything done on this solution was paid for by Jamie and myself. Development, testing and the final manufacturing. These parts are not cheap to produce at this level of quality.

This could not have happened without the collaboration of Dundon Motorsport along with the other projects we are currently involved with. These included the 991.1 and 991.2 GT3, GT4, Turbo and now the earlier 911 air cooled development, and the soon to be completed 997 GT3 42R engine project. This project includes all of the new friction development which was an integral part of the 991 finger program.

There will always be those that detract and find what we do silly and that the OEM is always the right way to go. Years ago they thought the world was flat too. We have come along way since then and the human spirit had a lot to do with this. Not taking anything for granted, not accepting that the only solution was what the "mother ship" produced etc.

My time in F1 was sometime ago but nothing has changed other than the technology. The need to create something from nothing, push the envelop, do something brand new where there are no existing standards or technology to copy, has not changed and still is the DNA that drives me to do what we do everyday. Its becomes your daily existence, gets in your blood and never leaves. I had the extreme fortune to work with some of the greats in my past who instilled into me that there is never a limit and keep trying to make it better.

Jamie@dundonmotorsports

cox1974

Great!!!!

0to60

Bye bye 10 year engine warranty.
Why would anyone mod this engine only to forfeit the warranty ?

rosenbergendo

Cay_PI

PAG did the same with the updated .2 engine (but they can not adopt it to .1 because it sacrifices the advertised automatic lash adjustment feature)... so... the guys here were right in their analysis
Maybe the market for this fix will need 8 years to mature ;D

Do you have hotter cam timings? Any power improvements?

Jamie@dundonmotorsports

We've already been contacted by customers on their 3rd and 4th engine that are interested in a more permanent fix. That said yes, hotter cams are already designed. We're starting with something stockish as the ramp rates have to change from the stock cams anyway going to a solid lash design.

The solid lash upgrade is part of our engine program. First up is a 4.1L 991 GT3, moving to a 4.5L. All the parts are here for the 4.5, we just need to get the data for the 4.1L first...

Jamie

robmypro

Jamie, maybe you can help us understand why anyone would decide to void their 10 year warranty for these upgrades? Because the engine warranty PAG provided includes all internals, not just for failures related to the finger followers. The new engines also provides a permanent fix to the FF issue, so can you make the case for why anyone would buy your upgrade at this stage? I personally think it might make sense in 2025 when my warranty has expired, but today I don't get why I would do it. I have unlimited race engines on Porsche for 3 years AFTER the .2 warranties expire. Why would I toss that out the window?

zedcat

"10 year engine warranty" always sounds good. But my engine was built Sept 14. So, soon will be 6 years left. Maybe just me, but 6 years is not that long. Very glad to hear work is continuing on other solutions. Will be good to have options whenever the time comes. Looking forward to hearing more.

robmypro

No question, in 6 years this will be of interest to a lot of people. I am just wondering about today, next month or next year. Hopefully Jamie can make the case for why we'd do this.

Performance Developments

To add to what Jamie has just said, we never set out to just “fix” the finger issue. We knew nothing about any finger follower issue even when the first issues started to occur.

It all started with us, when a customer with a 3.8L engine asked us to build him a 4.0L engine. On opening the engine, we saw the damage occurring to the fingers and camshaft lobes. We evaluated the problem, cause and what was needed to “fix” which quickly made any 3.8L to 4.0L upgrade pointless until we solved the valve train problem.

It has taken some time to get to where we are now as this sort of upgrade is not cheap, not quick and we only had “four people” in total, as I have recently read.

In fact, this upgrade has included many at Performance Developments, Dundon Motorsports and our partners in Europe. As the finger development was on going, we went ahead and designed new engine parts to make these engine up to 4.5L. Crankshafts, Rods, Pistons, Camshafts all have being designed and made. New coating applications and technologies have also been focused with a lot of this back dating to the 997 parts as well.

To understand the actual problem confirms that a “band aid fix” of coating both the cam lobes and followers is merely a quick fix, one I suggest is based on a financial decision and not an engineering one. It’s clear the original coated followers were not coated with the best and the later ones along with lobes are, but this does not change the inherent design problem that still exist within these engines. We decided to “fix” this by making the fingers non-hydraulic and supply oil to both the exhaust and Intake followers.

As engines get more complicated in their design, so do any modifications and up goes the cost. The extended warranty offered by Porsche appeared to limit our return on the investment, but in fact has helped us. We are now receiving many requests to build larger displacement engines which will require this problem to be addressed properly. Many owners are about performance and have seen the engineering gone into our parts and have decided to go ahead at this time with upgrades that included changing over the solid valve train.

There are over 7000 units built between 2014 and 2017, so if we can expect to get a tiny percentage of those owners asking for an engine performance upgrade, we will be busy for along time. In the meantime, our other engine programs, including McLaren, air cooled 911, 996/997 GT3, Turbo and now GT4 engines are keeping “all four” personal at Performance Developments and Dundon very busy.

ZBR

Hi, i'm very interested on this solution. May you give more info about it? I think it's a great idea!! But PAG must pay for this solution free to all the customers.... I don't think the 10 year warranty it's a solution!!!

Jamie@dundonmotorsports

Rob, there are customers in the world where warranty doesn't matter... I know sounds weird, but they exist... We started this solution well before the 10 year warranty was announced and before the 991.2 GT3 engine was announced to be using solid lash, knowing regardless the solution would find it's home into some engines either for a permanent solution or for performance upgrades. This is a both a longevity upgrade and a performance upgrade as solid lash will reduce frictional losses and allow for more aggressive cam profiles. Even if we put aside the argument of the current fix being permanent or not, after the engines are out of warranty, then what? Maybe Porsche will keep replacing engines after the 10year warranty, maybe not. Either way, there's enough demand for more performance out of the A175/6 GT3 engines that our efforts won't be wasted...

The A175/A176 engine is pretty great, with a solid lash valve train and proper lubrication it's fantastic, see the DGGA (2018 GT3 4.0L). The beauty of capitalism is you get to vote with your money. We're making a long term play here that the 9A1 GT3 engines are not throw away engines and are pretty great. In the end time will tell, for now we continue to push and build and test.

Never a bad thing to have options...

robmypro

Hi Jamie,

Yeah, I guess there are those people out there! I totally see the strategy long-term, as I mentioned. In 6 or 7 years I will probably come see you for the 4.5L! I guess my pockets aren't deep enough to ignore the warranty. Now, if you started talking about rebuilds for the PDK....you have my attention. :-)

BTW, what do you think the cost of an upgrade like this is going to be? Any ballpark estimates?

Jamie@dundonmotorsports

Testing now, quotes only after it's been tested...