My potentially unpopular thoughts on the GT3 as track car
04-17-2018, 01:41 AM
#47
Rennlist Member
Anyone who merely "tracks" a cup car is a fool with too much money.
The GT3 is a damn good track car - as ortho points out, fun and reliable.
Bottom line, until you start running 7 and change minute 'ring times, you need to keep practicing... I still have never met the guy that will extract everything out a GT3 at a local track day.
Well, except Potter in a 996 GT3. 991 RS guys, be humbled by 1:36.8 at laguna.
The GT3 is a damn good track car - as ortho points out, fun and reliable.
Bottom line, until you start running 7 and change minute 'ring times, you need to keep practicing... I still have never met the guy that will extract everything out a GT3 at a local track day.
Well, except Potter in a 996 GT3. 991 RS guys, be humbled by 1:36.8 at laguna.
04-17-2018, 02:27 AM
#48
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
It's your car. Do with it as you wish.
Why do you feel the need to justify what you do (or not do) with your car?
Why do you feel the need to justify what you do (or not do) with your car?
04-17-2018, 03:04 AM
#49
Rennlist Member
The OP's made very good points which I can relate to. And kudos to the civilized arguments presented to the contrary!
"Track car" means different things to different people. Some say that's a stripped-out Miata or maybe E46. Others say that's a retired Cup or Radical. Reality is everything in between depending on budget.
I've come full circle myself--starting with a 997.1 RS, tracking a 997.2 RS very, very extensively, moving on to a Cup trainer and then full-fat racing. That's given me the perspective to see from the OP's POV. But I also know that without the street cars in our formative years, few of us would've progressed to piloting full-bore track machines with zero humor whatsoever.
The GT3 (streetcar) is a necessary gateway drug. The "Track Car" moniker is probably half marketing gimmick and half truth... the product *is* track-capable, definitely more so than other cars within a 75%–150% price range. Admittedly I'm also among those sillies who find it cool to drive a track-capable car for grocery duty
I'm quite thankful that Porsche made the GT3 product and marketed it the way they did. Without it, I don't think I'd be half as deep into the brand and into racing today. (Then again, I could've had a much healthier piggy bank in that alternate universe!!)
"Track car" means different things to different people. Some say that's a stripped-out Miata or maybe E46. Others say that's a retired Cup or Radical. Reality is everything in between depending on budget.
I've come full circle myself--starting with a 997.1 RS, tracking a 997.2 RS very, very extensively, moving on to a Cup trainer and then full-fat racing. That's given me the perspective to see from the OP's POV. But I also know that without the street cars in our formative years, few of us would've progressed to piloting full-bore track machines with zero humor whatsoever.
The GT3 (streetcar) is a necessary gateway drug. The "Track Car" moniker is probably half marketing gimmick and half truth... the product *is* track-capable, definitely more so than other cars within a 75%–150% price range. Admittedly I'm also among those sillies who find it cool to drive a track-capable car for grocery duty
I'm quite thankful that Porsche made the GT3 product and marketed it the way they did. Without it, I don't think I'd be half as deep into the brand and into racing today. (Then again, I could've had a much healthier piggy bank in that alternate universe!!)
04-17-2018, 03:14 AM
#50
I agree with the OP's thoughts actually on the power curve of the 4.0 motor in my limited experience so far with the car, but suspension feels plenty stiff to me (that is on regular driving roads). Suspension was actually so stiff that on bad roads I think it led to the temporary shutdown of my entire PCM... So it seems like Porsche is making the car the ultimate dual-purpose machine for both street/track which will inevitably come with some compromise for both. And yet they still make the best one at that...
The aspect for me on why my GT3 won't make for a very good track car is for the simple fact it costs $200K when everything is said and done. One little dust up/mistake and that is going to be a very tough pill for me to swallow... maybe that's in line with an actual track car cost but as my main car/daily driver (C4 is leaving soon)...can't do it. If I was yearning for it I'd take a hard look at a Miata or older PDK Cayman, something like that to convert to how I like and track it *worry free.* Gets dented/love taps, spins out, etc I think I wouldn't be as stressed about it and these cars are for taking me away from my stresses Had a lot of fun taking my car to the Ring for one lap but was also sh!tting my pants wanting to make sure I finished with the car in one piece!
The aspect for me on why my GT3 won't make for a very good track car is for the simple fact it costs $200K when everything is said and done. One little dust up/mistake and that is going to be a very tough pill for me to swallow... maybe that's in line with an actual track car cost but as my main car/daily driver (C4 is leaving soon)...can't do it. If I was yearning for it I'd take a hard look at a Miata or older PDK Cayman, something like that to convert to how I like and track it *worry free.* Gets dented/love taps, spins out, etc I think I wouldn't be as stressed about it and these cars are for taking me away from my stresses
Had a lot of fun taking my car to the Ring for one lap but was also sh!tting my pants wanting to make sure I finished with the car in one piece!
Last edited by sampelligrino; 04-17-2018 at 07:25 AM.
04-17-2018, 10:45 AM
#53
Burning Brakes
The OP's made very good points which I can relate to. And kudos to the civilized arguments presented to the contrary!
"Track car" means different things to different people. Some say that's a stripped-out Miata or maybe E46. Others say that's a retired Cup or Radical. Reality is everything in between depending on budget.
I've come full circle myself--starting with a 997.1 RS, tracking a 997.2 RS very, very extensively, moving on to a Cup trainer and then full-fat racing. That's given me the perspective to see from the OP's POV. But I also know that without the street cars in our formative years, few of us would've progressed to piloting full-bore track machines with zero humor whatsoever.
The GT3 (streetcar) is a necessary gateway drug. The "Track Car" moniker is probably half marketing gimmick and half truth... the product *is* track-capable, definitely more so than other cars within a 75%–150% price range. Admittedly I'm also among those sillies who find it cool to drive a track-capable car for grocery duty
I'm quite thankful that Porsche made the GT3 product and marketed it the way they did. Without it, I don't think I'd be half as deep into the brand and into racing today. (Then again, I could've had a much healthier piggy bank in that alternate universe!!)
"Track car" means different things to different people. Some say that's a stripped-out Miata or maybe E46. Others say that's a retired Cup or Radical. Reality is everything in between depending on budget.
I've come full circle myself--starting with a 997.1 RS, tracking a 997.2 RS very, very extensively, moving on to a Cup trainer and then full-fat racing. That's given me the perspective to see from the OP's POV. But I also know that without the street cars in our formative years, few of us would've progressed to piloting full-bore track machines with zero humor whatsoever.
The GT3 (streetcar) is a necessary gateway drug. The "Track Car" moniker is probably half marketing gimmick and half truth... the product *is* track-capable, definitely more so than other cars within a 75%–150% price range. Admittedly I'm also among those sillies who find it cool to drive a track-capable car for grocery duty
I'm quite thankful that Porsche made the GT3 product and marketed it the way they did. Without it, I don't think I'd be half as deep into the brand and into racing today. (Then again, I could've had a much healthier piggy bank in that alternate universe!!)
Very well said CRex, "trackable street cars" are what brought most of us to the track at first
GT3/RS/GT4 are ones of the few very good at it
True that they are getting fatter/biger with every version though...
Back in the days, my very light (compared to GT cars) Supercharged Elise was as fun as a GT3 on the track, as reliable and much much cheaper to run... A little slower though.
Cheers
04-17-2018, 01:49 PM
#54
Racer
Thread Starter
You should check out their range now. Almost everything is 400hp+. They are absolutely bonkers.
04-17-2018, 02:12 PM
#55
Burning Brakes
YES!!!! We can all agree that the 991 GT3 is not the "Best" Track Car ever made, assuming "Best" is defined as "Fastest", and I think we can all
agree that the GT3 is not the "Best" "Grand Touring" Car ever made if "Grand Touring" is defined as "Most Comfortable, Quiet and Smooth Riding."
But to this highly experienced Sportscar Reviewer, after testing and driving the 991.1 GT3, he concluded it was the "Best Sportscar" he had ever driven.
After driving, owning, racing and instructing in many dozens of competing Sports Cars on Road and Track, over 5 decades, including owning several
dozen different 911 Models since it was introduced to the USA in 1966, I heartily agree with the Reviewer.
IMHO, the 991 GT3 is simply the "BEST SPORTSCAR" EVER BUILT. And my definition is in accordance with the original Description that defines a
"Sportscar" as being EQUALLY. proficient on the Road and on the Track. While not the "MOST COMFORTABLE" for touring, nor the "FASTEST"
on the Track, it provides a sufficiently high level of performance on both venues with Reliability, Speed, Comfort, Efficiency and Modest operating costs
that no other car has matched. This makes it the most satisfying and enjoyable car I have ever owned. If I could only own ONE car, it would be a 991 GT3.
agree that the GT3 is not the "Best" "Grand Touring" Car ever made if "Grand Touring" is defined as "Most Comfortable, Quiet and Smooth Riding."
But to this highly experienced Sportscar Reviewer, after testing and driving the 991.1 GT3, he concluded it was the "Best Sportscar" he had ever driven.
After driving, owning, racing and instructing in many dozens of competing Sports Cars on Road and Track, over 5 decades, including owning several
dozen different 911 Models since it was introduced to the USA in 1966, I heartily agree with the Reviewer.
IMHO, the 991 GT3 is simply the "BEST SPORTSCAR" EVER BUILT. And my definition is in accordance with the original Description that defines a
"Sportscar" as being EQUALLY. proficient on the Road and on the Track. While not the "MOST COMFORTABLE" for touring, nor the "FASTEST"
on the Track, it provides a sufficiently high level of performance on both venues with Reliability, Speed, Comfort, Efficiency and Modest operating costs
that no other car has matched. This makes it the most satisfying and enjoyable car I have ever owned. If I could only own ONE car, it would be a 991 GT3.
04-17-2018, 02:22 PM
#56
Drifting
^yup like I said Spense , "pound for pounding best deal around and can't be beat "
such a veteran experienced conclusion Hip Hip Hooray so glad to hear it today!
such a veteran experienced conclusion Hip Hip Hooray so glad to hear it today!
04-17-2018, 03:26 PM
#57
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I think it's also necessary to define "which" track before saying that the GT3 isn't a great track car. On a short/slow/technical track commonly found in the Western US, my hotrod '73 911 that weighs 1,200 pounds less than my GT3 is a better choice in many respects and difficult to improve upon for a street legal car in terms of fun.
But on Porsche's "home" track of the Nordschleife, I can't imagine a much better choice than a .2 GT3. That track is so fast, that I would never feel comfortable or safe in my 45 year old 911 (and Power to Weight Ratio starts to mean less than pure Power and aero when the speeds get high). The GT3 feels utterly at home in that environment - it does not feel too heavy or too soft there - it feels perfectly matched and balanced
But on Porsche's "home" track of the Nordschleife, I can't imagine a much better choice than a .2 GT3. That track is so fast, that I would never feel comfortable or safe in my 45 year old 911 (and Power to Weight Ratio starts to mean less than pure Power and aero when the speeds get high). The GT3 feels utterly at home in that environment - it does not feel too heavy or too soft there - it feels perfectly matched and balanced
04-17-2018, 03:45 PM
#58
Three Wheelin'
I think it's also necessary to define "which" track before saying that the GT3 isn't a great track car. On a short/slow/technical track commonly found in the Western US, my hotrod '73 911 that weighs 1,200 pounds less than my GT3 is a better choice in many respects and difficult to improve upon for a street legal car in terms of fun.
But on Porsche's "home" track of the Nordschleife, I can't imagine a much better choice than a .2 GT3. That track is so fast, that I would never feel comfortable or safe in my 45 year old 911 (and Power to Weight Ratio starts to mean less than pure Power and aero when the speeds get high). The GT3 feels utterly at home in that environment - it does not feel too heavy or too soft there - it feels perfectly matched and balanced
But on Porsche's "home" track of the Nordschleife, I can't imagine a much better choice than a .2 GT3. That track is so fast, that I would never feel comfortable or safe in my 45 year old 911 (and Power to Weight Ratio starts to mean less than pure Power and aero when the speeds get high). The GT3 feels utterly at home in that environment - it does not feel too heavy or too soft there - it feels perfectly matched and balanced
04-17-2018, 04:30 PM
#59
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Or maybe they aren’t foolish, and don’t have too much $. Maybe they take comfort knowing they are safer in the Cup than they are in any street car. And in the case of a 996 Cup they can be into the car for less than half the price of a new GT3street car, allowing for a lot of extra $ for transport, storage, running costs.
04-17-2018, 04:41 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
I think it's also necessary to define "which" track before saying that the GT3 isn't a great track car. On a short/slow/technical track commonly found in the Western US, my hotrod '73 911 that weighs 1,200 pounds less than my GT3 is a better choice in many respects and difficult to improve upon for a street legal car in terms of fun.
But on Porsche's "home" track of the Nordschleife, I can't imagine a much better choice than a .2 GT3. That track is so fast, that I would never feel comfortable or safe in my 45 year old 911 (and Power to Weight Ratio starts to mean less than pure Power and aero when the speeds get high). The GT3 feels utterly at home in that environment - it does not feel too heavy or too soft there - it feels perfectly matched and balanced
But on Porsche's "home" track of the Nordschleife, I can't imagine a much better choice than a .2 GT3. That track is so fast, that I would never feel comfortable or safe in my 45 year old 911 (and Power to Weight Ratio starts to mean less than pure Power and aero when the speeds get high). The GT3 feels utterly at home in that environment - it does not feel too heavy or too soft there - it feels perfectly matched and balanced