My potentially unpopular thoughts on the GT3 as track car
04-16-2018, 02:35 PM
#32
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curious about your Porsche Norwell story....
yup
I tracked a 991 4.0 cup car about a month ago for the first time.
It really gave me a perspective on what the differences are between a true race car and track capable street car, that's why now I look at tracking street cars more as a fun diversion to see what's in them rather than a true indication of ultimate performance. That's also why I decided that moving forward I'll either buy a cup car or rent seat time in one whenever I really want to push myself and for the feel of exhilaration.
That said, I don't think there is a brand out there that manages to get as much race car into a street legal car mrs than Porsche, in both performance and reliability, in the GT3 and more so in the RS variants ... but it will never be the same same thing.
It really gave me a perspective on what the differences are between a true race car and track capable street car, that's why now I look at tracking street cars more as a fun diversion to see what's in them rather than a true indication of ultimate performance. That's also why I decided that moving forward I'll either buy a cup car or rent seat time in one whenever I really want to push myself and for the feel of exhilaration.
That said, I don't think there is a brand out there that manages to get as much race car into a street legal car mrs than Porsche, in both performance and reliability, in the GT3 and more so in the RS variants ... but it will never be the same same thing.
04-16-2018, 02:50 PM
#33
I track/race a 996 Cup and track a 991RS (which is not too dissimilar to the GT3) and am always in awe of the RS. Yes there's a load more flex in the car, but it maintains very high and consistent performance levels and almost the same laptimes as the Cup. Whilst I get a proper workout in the Cup, the RS does everything without too much effort, but it's so efficient and still feels so mechanical that it's a great tool for a fun trackday. I do come across many with the same view as you, but get out on track with a couple of buddies in similar cars and I'm fairly sure you'll fall in love with the car. Imv every car is fun on track when you find the limits and the GT3 is about as good as it gets for a road car.
04-16-2018, 02:54 PM
#34
Banned
good repoer
bur the observation is not new
this is a STREET cruiser than can be used in track. it is NOT a track car per se. once this is understood t does a great job for what it is. if u want a TRACK car, then radical, gt4cs, gt3 cup car. then all questions will be remedied
bur the observation is not new
this is a STREET cruiser than can be used in track. it is NOT a track car per se. once this is understood t does a great job for what it is. if u want a TRACK car, then radical, gt4cs, gt3 cup car. then all questions will be remedied
04-16-2018, 02:59 PM
#35
Rennlist Member
the points about weight and form factor are relevant
once again it is all relative
track a mustang gt350r 3750 lbs corvette z06 3550 lbs audi r8 3650 lbs and the gt3 feels light and maneuverable - track use brutally exposes the fallacy of the current trend of heavy sports cars... it is a just a joke ... the gt3/rs lives on that spectrum but definitely at lower end - you don't wear these cars like sports cars of old... you sit in them and feel you are steering the helm of a motorboat waiting for the damn nose to turn
porsche has intentionally built new gt cars softer and easier to drive faster for more people... the big wide long platform makes it oh so stable... let's beginner and intermediate drivers get away with murder with bad turn in, mid course adjustments, club foot on throttle....serious track use by advanced drivers need stiffer springs pretty much out of the box to manage dive and squat... but it is a very smart commercial objective and porsche is laughing all the way to the bank
if it is a curvy track, spec boxsters and stripped out e46 m3 racers will run down and pass a gt3 lol
but we still want these cars cuz they are fun, well made, exciting and pretty much better than all other streetable alternatives!
once again it is all relative
track a mustang gt350r 3750 lbs corvette z06 3550 lbs audi r8 3650 lbs and the gt3 feels light and maneuverable - track use brutally exposes the fallacy of the current trend of heavy sports cars... it is a just a joke ... the gt3/rs lives on that spectrum but definitely at lower end - you don't wear these cars like sports cars of old... you sit in them and feel you are steering the helm of a motorboat waiting for the damn nose to turn
porsche has intentionally built new gt cars softer and easier to drive faster for more people... the big wide long platform makes it oh so stable... let's beginner and intermediate drivers get away with murder with bad turn in, mid course adjustments, club foot on throttle....serious track use by advanced drivers need stiffer springs pretty much out of the box to manage dive and squat... but it is a very smart commercial objective and porsche is laughing all the way to the bank
if it is a curvy track, spec boxsters and stripped out e46 m3 racers will run down and pass a gt3 lol
but we still want these cars cuz they are fun, well made, exciting and pretty much better than all other streetable alternatives!
04-16-2018, 06:54 PM
#36
Sorry, don't get it. Heavy? Compared to what. Generally, over the years most race cars have gotten bigger, heavier, have longer wheel base, wider track, etc. Is that a bad thing, or just progress. The modern GT3 will run with or better than older Cup cars. I have friends with older GT3C (2000) cup cars and that race historic air cooled cars. Track with them often. New GT3's are simply faster given the average driver. Bigger, heavier, yes, but compare those same cars to the race cars 20 years prior. Progress. Mind you, that's not to compare modern race cars to current GT3's/RS's. Track specific cars of any age are much lighter than their civilian counterparts. We live in amazing times!
04-16-2018, 07:19 PM
#37
agree w joe's comments on this 100% - one's perspective is all a function of what one has as a frame of reference
grip is real good on a cup 2 unless u compare it to a true slick
gt3/rs is really good on track till u compare it to a cup car
hellcat 700 hp is fast off the line until u compare it to a dragster
gt3/rs is a dual purpose car that can be driven on the street yet provide thrills on track without melting
grip is real good on a cup 2 unless u compare it to a true slick
gt3/rs is really good on track till u compare it to a cup car
hellcat 700 hp is fast off the line until u compare it to a dragster
gt3/rs is a dual purpose car that can be driven on the street yet provide thrills on track without melting
The GT3/RS's are a good as it gets for dual purpose cars that can be driven daily and still hold their own on the track. In reality there is only a small percentage of owners who will ever reach 100% of what these "road cars" are capable of doing on the track anyway.
04-16-2018, 07:51 PM
#38
I pretty much agree with all of this, and the other posters above as well (all of which have been refreshingly civilized!!).
Yes point of reference is everything and I should clarify that I didn't mean to compare it to race cars (but I did sorry!). I guess my main beef is with many of the reviews and some of the posts on here that make this thing out to be 'the race car you can drive on the road' etc etc. I think this aspect of it was wildly over-blown and exaggerated. As other's have pointed out, this is a street car that is track capable, not the other way round as some reviews make out.
Yes point of reference is everything and I should clarify that I didn't mean to compare it to race cars (but I did sorry!). I guess my main beef is with many of the reviews and some of the posts on here that make this thing out to be 'the race car you can drive on the road' etc etc. I think this aspect of it was wildly over-blown and exaggerated. As other's have pointed out, this is a street car that is track capable, not the other way round as some reviews make out.
04-16-2018, 08:08 PM
#39
Racer
Thread Starter
I'm fascinated by this, and how come Miatas/MX5s, or for that matter Smarts, Fiat 500s etc can keep their weight down? Is it a power to weight ratio thing? I can't imagine the crash test speeds change depending on a cars HP or top speed.
04-16-2018, 08:26 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
Side impact for one
the lesser cars don’t chase the 5 star ratings
i don’t believe either the Miata or Fiat do very well in their crash testing - but the internet will correct me.
the lesser cars don’t chase the 5 star ratings
i don’t believe either the Miata or Fiat do very well in their crash testing - but the internet will correct me.
04-16-2018, 08:52 PM
#41
Race Director
Great thread.
i do not track but as much as I love the .2 it just looks so big in my garage. I know the GT4 is not that much smaller but just looks and feels smaller.
Drop the 4.0 Liter in the GT4, with a minimum 450 HP, and take some weight out of it and you have the perfect Street/ Track car
And yes- the .2 has slight body roll and the GT4 has none but I am sure that could be negated with some adjustments
i do not track but as much as I love the .2 it just looks so big in my garage. I know the GT4 is not that much smaller but just looks and feels smaller.
Drop the 4.0 Liter in the GT4, with a minimum 450 HP, and take some weight out of it and you have the perfect Street/ Track car
And yes- the .2 has slight body roll and the GT4 has none but I am sure that could be negated with some adjustments
04-16-2018, 09:35 PM
#42
Rennlist Member
The OP complained that the hype from reviewers made the car sound too much like a track weapon. We all agree it is soft compared to a true race car or even a street based track car like a Cup, but to be fair to the reviewers they usually are comparing against all cars they’ve tested and believe their readers can easily go buy. That limits their comparative pool to street cars and manufacturer built track tuned models. Name a more focused track car you can walk into a show room and buy from a major manufacturer that fits your criteria of light, fast, and responsive? I have done this exercise too many times and when I add reliable to the criteria, I always come to the same answer GT3/RS.
So it's fun to drive my GT car back & forth from the track & enjoy being a wanna be racecar guy for the weekend.
04-16-2018, 10:09 PM
#45
Great thread, love the thesis here. Gold star to everyone on civility and respectful opinion sharing.
I love that fletch has identified some shortcomings, from his perspective, with the car that most everyone else thinks are positives (given the compromise that this car is able to offer, unlike almost any other car available). As a patiently waiting for an August build/September delivery lurker here, this is exactly what I want to read about. So I can live vicariously through y’all for now, and make sure that I’m making the right decision. And so I can continue to answer my son’s ongoing question du jour, “dad, can the gt3 beat that car? How about that one? That one? What about that one?” As we drive down the STREET. Until they start letting actual race cars drive on the street, or everyone around these parts starts driving RSs and Lamborghinis, I can still keep saying “yes, I think so.”
I love that fletch has identified some shortcomings, from his perspective, with the car that most everyone else thinks are positives (given the compromise that this car is able to offer, unlike almost any other car available). As a patiently waiting for an August build/September delivery lurker here, this is exactly what I want to read about. So I can live vicariously through y’all for now, and make sure that I’m making the right decision. And so I can continue to answer my son’s ongoing question du jour, “dad, can the gt3 beat that car? How about that one? That one? What about that one?” As we drive down the STREET. Until they start letting actual race cars drive on the street, or everyone around these parts starts driving RSs and Lamborghinis, I can still keep saying “yes, I think so.”