991.2 3RS Ring time..............
04-17-2018, 02:34 PM
#76
RL Community Team
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04-17-2018, 03:22 PM
#77
04-17-2018, 03:31 PM
#78
Rennlist Member
Do the monoball (rose joint) suspension arms in the .2RS contribute to the better lap times?
Also the updated PASM and RWS software tuning should also help. Not easily replicated in the .1RS
Also the updated PASM and RWS software tuning should also help. Not easily replicated in the .1RS
04-17-2018, 03:31 PM
#79
I'm amazed at the hostile reaction by most. Are people actually rooting that the ring time is slower? Is it not awesome what Porsche has been able to do?
And anyone who thinks they know just adding tires and suspension will make a .1rs a few seconds slower is hilarious. Until you get hands on a .2rs and make those .1rs upgrades, you are just purely speculating. Because I'm guessing you could ALSO make the .2rs perform better with future after-market mods. Oem to oem, this is an incredible feat Porsche pulled off and as Porsche-o-files, we should all love this. NA 2wd sub 7 sec ring time. Who else can claim that?
And anyone who thinks they know just adding tires and suspension will make a .1rs a few seconds slower is hilarious. Until you get hands on a .2rs and make those .1rs upgrades, you are just purely speculating. Because I'm guessing you could ALSO make the .2rs perform better with future after-market mods. Oem to oem, this is an incredible feat Porsche pulled off and as Porsche-o-files, we should all love this. NA 2wd sub 7 sec ring time. Who else can claim that?
04-17-2018, 04:34 PM
#80
I'm amazed at the hostile reaction by most. Are people actually rooting that the ring time is slower? Is it not awesome what Porsche has been able to do?
And anyone who thinks they know just adding tires and suspension will make a .1rs a few seconds slower is hilarious. Until you get hands on a .2rs and make those .1rs upgrades, you are just purely speculating. Because I'm guessing you could ALSO make the .2rs perform better with future after-market mods. Oem to oem, this is an incredible feat Porsche pulled off and as Porsche-o-files, we should all love this. NA 2wd sub 7 sec ring time. Who else can claim that?
And anyone who thinks they know just adding tires and suspension will make a .1rs a few seconds slower is hilarious. Until you get hands on a .2rs and make those .1rs upgrades, you are just purely speculating. Because I'm guessing you could ALSO make the .2rs perform better with future after-market mods. Oem to oem, this is an incredible feat Porsche pulled off and as Porsche-o-files, we should all love this. NA 2wd sub 7 sec ring time. Who else can claim that?
04-17-2018, 05:51 PM
#81
same for revised RWS software, car is more agile and more stable in the meantime
weight saving is important, compared to .1 car is 6kg lighter 'apples to apples' plus 30kg further thanks to WP, for a total of 36kg diet of which 13 unsprung mass (magnesium wheels)
just to give more reliability to my words, I had the chance to try the GT2RS of a friend of mine during a trackday in Imola 10 days ago, after stopping my GT3RS I jumped into the "widow maker", so in a perfect situation to do a comparison, well.. I found a more agile car than mine while being more stable, I found a more compliant car than mine (probably thanks to helper springs since I got the same impression when I passed from 997.1 GT3 to 997.2 4.0), the improvement on the suspension side is tangible, with reflections both on handling and traction where ground is not perfect, the combination of suspension work and more aggressive LSD helps the driver accelerate earlier, surprisingly the body rolls more...don't ask me why since me too expected a more extreme set-up, don't know whether carbon sway bars or dampers mitigate the effect of stiffer springs but definitively rolls more...this helps driver in understanding better the reactions of the car and globally I had the perception of an easier car to drive compared to 3RS (power to manage apart). Steering also is better...more "organic". The weights of the two cars are pretty the same (GT3RS clubsport with PCCB and GT2 RS WP differ for no more than 10 kilos) so what I perceived (if I perceived correctly) is due to chassis changes.
Since .2GT3RS is basically a GT2RS with NA engine, I would expect even a better behaviour of the first one with some kilos less (WP both)
Coming back to .2 improvements on the technical sheet, we have also slightly higher downforce with less drag, probably a more ready braking since they reduced the space between pad and disc, PDK is revised and more aggressive in downshifting (which was too much touristic for my taste in 1st gen), plus other things that I forget actually, plus a lot of minor things that they don't mention but all summed up give something.
Engine is better, more hp, more torque, more revs...help being always in a more optimal range compared to .1 both when upshifting and downshifting (and going on the gas).
Having said this, I expect a perfect car to drive (where the .1 was almost perfect) and I'm not so much surprised by the 'exploit' at Ring...if we take into account the external conditions (better than ideal) and the tyre factor.
Last edited by Dante; 04-17-2018 at 05:56 PM. Reason: .
04-17-2018, 07:36 PM
#84
Hope the Ring time stands, but something doesn't add up. Ring times for .1 GT3 and .1 RS was 5 seconds. Difference between the two cars. RS had +25 hp and better aero. New RS has + 20 hp and better aero over .2 Gt3 that results in 16 seconds difference. New GT2 RS better than new RS by 11 seconds, but GT2 has +180 hp better aero, and turbo torque. Huh? Either GT2 RS not putting it down, or .2 GT3 RS batting way above its league. I'll wait for official Porsche results.
04-17-2018, 10:38 PM
#85
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Difference between RS.1 and .2 is not surprising to me based mainly on the difference in the engine. My experience on track (I drive a wolf single seat) is that the new GT3 motor is so much better than the GT3RS.1. In straights I can pull away from old GT3 and GT3RS.1. The new GT3 I cannot, in fact it pulls me in long straights. (In the turns a totally different issue) The torque range on new motor is amazing and I also believe the HP on both GT3 and new RS .2 is underrated. When you add this to all the other tweeks to the new RS it makes sense.
04-17-2018, 11:12 PM
#86
Tires are adding 10% to 13% more mechanical grip. Higher cornering speed + better traction when back on grip is giving the higher speed in the straight. Take a look at last weekend's F1 race to see what a difference tires can make.
04-18-2018, 12:40 PM
#88
Hope the Ring time stands, but something doesn't add up. Ring times for .1 GT3 and .1 RS was 5 seconds. Difference between the two cars. RS had +25 hp and better aero. New RS has + 20 hp and better aero over .2 Gt3 that results in 16 seconds difference. New GT2 RS better than new RS by 11 seconds, but GT2 has +180 hp better aero, and turbo torque. Huh? Either GT2 RS not putting it down, or .2 GT3 RS batting way above its league. I'll wait for official Porsche results.
Much better suspension and handling, lighter car, much better engine, like someone said, the 991.2 gt3 pulls on an 991.1 RS like the RS is broken, this engine has 30hp on the gt3.
MUCH better tires, better aero with less drag, track is a lot faster since the lap record of .1 rs. And to top it of, lap of the .1 RS wasn't that clean.
Don't really see anything weird here.
04-18-2018, 12:51 PM
#89
Originally Posted by Dante
no, not direct impact on car (in itself) performance, rose joints contribute just to more precision...easen driver's input and enhance the output and he will get more from the car, so yes...indirectly contribute to better lap times.
same for revised RWS software, car is more agile and more stable in the meantime
weight saving is important, compared to .1 car is 6kg lighter 'apples to apples' plus 30kg further thanks to WP, for a total of 36kg diet of which 13 unsprung mass (magnesium wheels)
just to give more reliability to my words, I had the chance to try the GT2RS of a friend of mine during a trackday in Imola 10 days ago, after stopping my GT3RS I jumped into the "widow maker", so in a perfect situation to do a comparison, well.. I found a more agile car than mine while being more stable, I found a more compliant car than mine (probably thanks to helper springs since I got the same impression when I passed from 997.1 GT3 to 997.2 4.0), the improvement on the suspension side is tangible, with reflections both on handling and traction where ground is not perfect, the combination of suspension work and more aggressive LSD helps the driver accelerate earlier, surprisingly the body rolls more...don't ask me why since me too expected a more extreme set-up, don't know whether carbon sway bars or dampers mitigate the effect of stiffer springs but definitively rolls more...this helps driver in understanding better the reactions of the car and globally I had the perception of an easier car to drive compared to 3RS (power to manage apart). Steering also is better...more "organic". The weights of the two cars are pretty the same (GT3RS clubsport with PCCB and GT2 RS WP differ for no more than 10 kilos) so what I perceived (if I perceived correctly) is due to chassis changes.
Since .2GT3RS is basically a GT2RS with NA engine, I would expect even a better behaviour of the first one with some kilos less (WP both)
Coming back to .2 improvements on the technical sheet, we have also slightly higher downforce with less drag, probably a more ready braking since they reduced the space between pad and disc, PDK is revised and more aggressive in downshifting (which was too much touristic for my taste in 1st gen), plus other things that I forget actually, plus a lot of minor things that they don't mention but all summed up give something.
Engine is better, more hp, more torque, more revs...help being always in a more optimal range compared to .1 both when upshifting and downshifting (and going on the gas).
Having said this, I expect a perfect car to drive (where the .1 was almost perfect) and I'm not so much surprised by the 'exploit' at Ring...if we take into account the external conditions (better than ideal) and the tyre factor.
same for revised RWS software, car is more agile and more stable in the meantime
weight saving is important, compared to .1 car is 6kg lighter 'apples to apples' plus 30kg further thanks to WP, for a total of 36kg diet of which 13 unsprung mass (magnesium wheels)
just to give more reliability to my words, I had the chance to try the GT2RS of a friend of mine during a trackday in Imola 10 days ago, after stopping my GT3RS I jumped into the "widow maker", so in a perfect situation to do a comparison, well.. I found a more agile car than mine while being more stable, I found a more compliant car than mine (probably thanks to helper springs since I got the same impression when I passed from 997.1 GT3 to 997.2 4.0), the improvement on the suspension side is tangible, with reflections both on handling and traction where ground is not perfect, the combination of suspension work and more aggressive LSD helps the driver accelerate earlier, surprisingly the body rolls more...don't ask me why since me too expected a more extreme set-up, don't know whether carbon sway bars or dampers mitigate the effect of stiffer springs but definitively rolls more...this helps driver in understanding better the reactions of the car and globally I had the perception of an easier car to drive compared to 3RS (power to manage apart). Steering also is better...more "organic". The weights of the two cars are pretty the same (GT3RS clubsport with PCCB and GT2 RS WP differ for no more than 10 kilos) so what I perceived (if I perceived correctly) is due to chassis changes.
Since .2GT3RS is basically a GT2RS with NA engine, I would expect even a better behaviour of the first one with some kilos less (WP both)
Coming back to .2 improvements on the technical sheet, we have also slightly higher downforce with less drag, probably a more ready braking since they reduced the space between pad and disc, PDK is revised and more aggressive in downshifting (which was too much touristic for my taste in 1st gen), plus other things that I forget actually, plus a lot of minor things that they don't mention but all summed up give something.
Engine is better, more hp, more torque, more revs...help being always in a more optimal range compared to .1 both when upshifting and downshifting (and going on the gas).
Having said this, I expect a perfect car to drive (where the .1 was almost perfect) and I'm not so much surprised by the 'exploit' at Ring...if we take into account the external conditions (better than ideal) and the tyre factor.
and well said, thanks for sharing your input. I agree with isv that 25 sec just seems like a quantum leap from .1 to .2 taken on its face without more. Not bashing/discrediting the .2 3RS, I have no horse in this race, but I'd like a little more substance and dissection/analysis of how/why the .2 was 25 seconds faster which is why I appreciate the discussion here. Regardless it's an impressive accomplishment and feat by the best car company in the world
04-18-2018, 01:37 PM
#90
Rennlist Member
White or red one by chance? Might have seen you on the track and well said, thanks for sharing your input.
I agree with isv that 25 sec just seems like a quantum leap from .1 to .2 taken on its face without more. Not bashing/discrediting the .2 3RS, I have no horse in this race, but I'd like a little more substance and dissection/analysis of how/why the .2 was 25 seconds faster which is why I appreciate the discussion here. Regardless it's an impressive accomplishment and feat by the best car company in the world
and well said, thanks for sharing your input.I agree with isv that 25 sec just seems like a quantum leap from .1 to .2 taken on its face without more. Not bashing/discrediting the .2 3RS, I have no horse in this race, but I'd like a little more substance and dissection/analysis of how/why the .2 was 25 seconds faster which is why I appreciate the discussion here. Regardless it's an impressive accomplishment and feat by the best car company in the world
Last edited by Chris3963; 04-18-2018 at 02:49 PM.
