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At my local 2.5 mile track, my Evo (modified), GT4, and .2 GT3 Manual are all within 2 seconds of each other with me driving. Sure some of that is the bottleneck of the driver, but I hope to increase that with more seat time (and after the resurfaced track collects more rubber/grip).
7 to 10 seconds on a lap under 100 seconds is huge. Need to get a LapTimer to appreciate the tenths’ improvements
To say if good enough to drive without "the nannies" is like saying are you good enough to drive "without a seatbelt for your passenger ". Its a safety aid, if not for yourself, then at least for others around you.
Very informative and interesting to hear everyone's opinions on PSM. I am in the Trakcar camp of mostly leaving it on to protect against the rare unexpected occurrence of oil, coolant, serious driver error, or other surprise conditions that can catch off guard. When you run a lot of laps, even a 1 in a 1,000 chance of a serious mishap will eventually catch up with you. I think a good compromise here with differing opinions and the need to protect our expensive investments would be to run the with the PSM on most of the time, but learn what the car feels like without it.
What do I mean by that? I would run with it on most of the time and learn to work with it and or around it when it does intervene. Then, on occasion, near the end of a session, when the tires are a little less grippy, and you have some clear track, then I would turn off PSM and run the car at 80-90% of your ability but aggressively in the corners. The car will move around more but at a slower pace and be easier to catch. At that point you can play around and see what happens in those areas where the PSM seems to routinely interfere. You can purposely pinch off a few apexes etc etc and see what the car does. At the slower speed, things happen more slowly and you have extra room on track out to recover the car from any hooligan or erroneous type moves. After a few laps of just you and the car without any electronics, you will have an enhanced understanding of how it handles by itself, and done so without having to risk it at what may be somewhat unsafe speeds for your driving ability.
Very informative and interesting to hear everyone's opinions on PSM. I am in the Trakcar camp of mostly leaving it on to protect against the rare unexpected occurrence of oil, coolant, serious driver error, or other surprise conditions that can catch off guard. When you run a lot of laps, even a 1 in a 1,000 chance of a serious mishap will eventually catch up with you. I think a good compromise here with differing opinions and the need to protect our expensive investments would be to run the with the PSM on most of the time, but learn what the car feels like without it.
What do I mean by that? I would run with it on most of the time and learn to work with it and or around it when it does intervene. Then, on occasion, near the end of a session, when the tires are a little less grippy, and you have some clear track, then I would turn off PSM and run the car at 80-90% of your ability but aggressively in the corners. The car will move around more but at a slower pace and be easier to catch. At that point you can play around and see what happens in those areas where the PSM seems to routinely interfere. You can purposely pinch off a few apexes etc etc and see what the car does. At the slower speed, things happen more slowly and you have extra room on track out to recover the car from any hooligan or erroneous type moves. After a few laps of just you and the car without any electronics, you will have an enhanced understanding of how it handles by itself, and done so without having to risk it at what may be somewhat unsafe speeds for your driving ability.
Just another enthusiasts thoughts on the subject.
I think it depends on your skill. But I also complement Porsche as their system is VERY GOOD and not obtrusive. I did testing this weekend, and while I prefer the car with everything off... I wasn't really any faster just leaving traction control on. I always leave ESC OFF, and go back and forth between traction control on or off.
If you don't race regularly... no reason to turn them off... they won't slow you down even a 'second' from what I've seen. But you can get some nice drifts into and out of corners with them defeated.
One other recommendation... if you're driving the .2 GT3... my recommendation is to leave the car up a gear (more often than you think) it has such good midrange, you really should never find yourself between gears, always default to being up one higher, and you'll be faster overall in almost all scenarios.
Lovetoturn- that's how I would track my 675LT's...run aggressively with ESC in dynamic but not off- and then once tires were too hot for max lap attack...ESC OFF and fiddle around in Chris Harris mode.
Just a pic of 2 Canadian bothers (the cars that had to fly south for some track time at Road Atlanta before the PCA race. It was quite an introduction to the car to have to run with all the CUP and other race cars that were just getting some track time. Everyone was excellent on the track realizing us (and a few others) were not there for a race. Great group of people. What an amazing ride, so much to learn coming from a 991S.
Thanks we will be at Mosport first weekend in May for the UCR PCA track days with a couple others from Rennsport region...assuming we finally get some decent weather 😬
I think it depends on your skill. But I also complement Porsche as their system is VERY GOOD and not obtrusive. I did testing this weekend, and while I prefer the car with everything off... I wasn't really any faster just leaving traction control on. I always leave ESC OFF, and go back and forth between traction control on or off.
If you don't race regularly... no reason to turn them off... they won't slow you down even a 'second' from what I've seen. But you can get some nice drifts into and out of corners with them defeated.
One other recommendation... if you're driving the .2 GT3... my recommendation is to leave the car up a gear (more often than you think) it has such good midrange, you really should never find yourself between gears, always default to being up one higher, and you'll be faster overall in almost all scenarios.
Best Regards,
Dave
Sounds like you’re leaving some power on the table.
Stumbled into the ESC discussion.
In the past, ESC/TC was just no good. That is no longer the case. Some have never driven with ESC, are very fast, and just can't believe that the new systems work so well.
The problem with ESC is that it allows people to drive horribly and perpetuate bad habits. If you are constantly hitting ESC, you are doing it wrong.
The great thing about ESC is that it a safety system that will save you and the car from calamity when the unforeseen happens.
ESC does not slow you down. A local pro driver who holds multiple national championships and track records has driven many of the latest GT cars. He says that ESC works well. He prefers the system off because it allows more flexibility for his style of driving. With ESC on, he does have to change his driving style slightly, but he ultimately admits that the lap times would be no different.
The only exception to ESC not slowing you down is that when it intervenes, I do believes that it sacrifices more momentum and time than someone who can correct/save and lose less time. Either way, time is lost so the fastest lap possible is not affected.
Over the years, I've heard many times guys announce that they refuse to use ESC or decided that it was 'time' to turn off ESC and they ended up in a wall. It is very predictable.
ESC can be just as much of a learning tool as it can be a crutch depending on how you use it.
When I shifted to spec miata, I expected to have a learning curve not having any nannies or ESC. It turned out to be the opposite. ESC on the Porsches allowed just enough slip angle for me to learn what to expect and how to correct. When I switched to a zero assist anything car like the miata, it was no big deal and surprisingly easy/fun. I thought I would be terrible in the rain as well, but I ended with qualifying p1 and winning a race in the rain. I told my crew chief over the radio that the the car felt really loose in the rain, but continued to pass cars and ended up winning.
Thanks we will be at Mosport first weekend in May for the UCR PCA track days with a couple others from Rennsport region...assuming we finally get some decent weather 😬
I've been back and forth over cancelling but I think I'm gonna be there. I don't think I'm gonna get through the break-in miles so I'll just take it easy and enjoy the car on the track.
04-14-2018, 01:06 PM
that had to fly south for some track time at Road Atlanta before the PCA race. It was quite an introduction to the car to have to run with all the CUP and other race cars that were just getting some track time. Everyone was excellent on the track realizing us (and a few others) were not there for a race. Great group of people. What an amazing ride, so much to learn coming from a 991S.
