Tale of a GT2RS Allocation
04-04-2018, 11:41 PM
#46
Race Car
Originally Posted by orthojoe
It's reached a tipping point. Guys like me, mooty, and trakcar aren't getting any younger. Patience and tolerance erodes with age. There are other brands and other activities to spend money and time on that value us. I've been fortunate with being able to obtain the cars that I've been able to get so far, but it wasn't without consternation, forethought, and a bit of luck. I'm tired of the game at this point.Ford did that with the Ford GT.
04-05-2018, 12:06 AM
#47
Instructor
There is money and then there is money.
I can have a GT2RS at 150k above. I don't have the money nor the need nor the skills to drive well a 2RS.
150k above is NOTHING for a lot of people. Heck, people buy 1300 sf ****ty houses for 200k above sticker price here in the SF Bay area.
Everything is relative...but I got my V200 GT3RS at sticker
I can have a GT2RS at 150k above. I don't have the money nor the need nor the skills to drive well a 2RS.
150k above is NOTHING for a lot of people. Heck, people buy 1300 sf ****ty houses for 200k above sticker price here in the SF Bay area.
Everything is relative...but I got my V200 GT3RS at sticker
04-05-2018, 12:15 AM
#48
Rennlist Member
Ellig- sorry to hear about your story. Did you have much of your communication in writing / email? Since we are talking about large $$ numbers here, don't forget that you have rights. Is it worth the hassle of filing a complaint/ lawsuit? Well it depends...but If there was email communication, you knew your place in line, and then were supplanted for a sale to someone else, it may be worth challenging this. Yes...doing so would forever break your relationship with the dealer, but sounds like there may not be much of a relationship in the first place. Of course the details would determine the strength of your case.
http://flatsixes.com/porsche-culture...-someone-else/
http://flatsixes.com/porsche-culture...-someone-else/
04-05-2018, 12:34 AM
#49
In reality, you have to look at China demand for two seater cars because they're competing for cars off the same limited Zuffenhasen production line as US/Euro buyers. Meaning that, for example, if Porsche makes more money selling lots of 718 cars to China than selling GT cars elsewhere, guess what gets produced at Zuffenhausen and what gets cut back? Cutting back on the supply of GT cars, under these circumstances, will likely keep the ADM for GT cars in place.
Right now, China is Porsches biggest customer. And it's selling 718s pretty well, from what I've read. They're big on pollution over their and small engines gets them excited.
04-05-2018, 12:54 AM
#50
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It's total bull****. Klaus Zellmer knows this and the entire PCNA management is in cahoots on it. Literally no other brand does it as seedy as Porsche does.
As a point of comparison I just placed a deposit down on an AMG G63 SUV. The 2019 is new, and they are not taking orders on it per se, but you can put down a 1K deposit for an allocation. I am #4 in line, Mercedes is extremely transparent about where you are on the list and puts together a written sheet for you.
Why can't Porsche do this???
As a point of comparison I just placed a deposit down on an AMG G63 SUV. The 2019 is new, and they are not taking orders on it per se, but you can put down a 1K deposit for an allocation. I am #4 in line, Mercedes is extremely transparent about where you are on the list and puts together a written sheet for you.
Why can't Porsche do this???
04-05-2018, 01:18 AM
#51
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It's reached a tipping point. Guys like me, mooty, and trakcar aren't getting any younger. Patience and tolerance erodes with age. There are other brands and other activities to spend money and time on that value us. I've been fortunate with being able to obtain the cars that I've been able to get so far, but it wasn't without consternation, forethought, and a bit of luck. I'm tired of the game at this point.
In the past I didn't have a ton of money so Porsche GT cars were attractive but now I am older and better off. At THIS point through PORSCHE's OWN doing I will investigate other cars. Porsche is PUSHING me to other brands. With Ferrari at the top of the list. But when the next one comes the first place I WONT GO is Porsche. It will be a broker or Ferrari or Lambo dealer, and I will see how I am treated. If that doesn't work I'll ask CJ what to do. Having said that I would go to CJ now but when CJ is 3rd on his own list things don't bode well for me. And see thats the other thing. All these Porsche dealerships are pissing people off then the small number of dealers like CJ who are treating people with respect are over loaded. I STILL cant believe my local dealer called the AUTO GALLERY to get "the correct ADM on the GT3" I still have to laugh at that one!
04-05-2018, 01:19 AM
#52
Race Director
Originally Posted by C.J. Ichiban
dealers basically got 1 GT2RS allocation per 13-15 911's they sold annually as a share of nation. So, the massive 1000 unit stores that sell 150 911's a year got over 10.
my store has only been awarded one GT2RS allocation because during the evaluation process we had only sold 16 911's in a rolling 12 month period. so, I got aggressive with trades etc and now we are on pace for 50+ this year. lets see if it holds up but I have a list 15 people long (didn't take deposits on it, just told people where they were on the list) and the top guy got one. everyone else is waiting, including me. I'm #3 on my own list. I did not buy a 918, so I'm only a little vip. not a VIP.
my store has only been awarded one GT2RS allocation because during the evaluation process we had only sold 16 911's in a rolling 12 month period. so, I got aggressive with trades etc and now we are on pace for 50+ this year. lets see if it holds up but I have a list 15 people long (didn't take deposits on it, just told people where they were on the list) and the top guy got one. everyone else is waiting, including me. I'm #3 on my own list. I did not buy a 918, so I'm only a little vip. not a VIP.
That says it all in this context. You're a true standout individual and a gentleman CJ, it's a pleasure knowing you.
04-05-2018, 01:40 AM
#53
RL Community Team
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Ellig- sorry to hear about your story. Did you have much of your communication in writing / email? Since we are talking about large $$ numbers here, don't forget that you have rights. Is it worth the hassle of filing a complaint/ lawsuit? Well it depends...but If there was email communication, you knew your place in line, and then were supplanted for a sale to someone else, it may be worth challenging this. Yes...doing so would forever break your relationship with the dealer, but sounds like there may not be much of a relationship in the first place. Of course the details would determine the strength of your case.
http://flatsixes.com/porsche-culture...-someone-else/
http://flatsixes.com/porsche-culture...-someone-else/
We're in the U.S.
04-05-2018, 02:00 AM
#54
Rennlist Member
Oh I see. Thx for clarifying that. In the US we don't sue each other for breach of contract? That was meant to illustrate a point. The issue here is that a deposit was taken......many dealers these days don't take deposits for this exact reason. There is a "list" but no money exchanges hands. Assume that a buyer pays a deposit for a car, orders it, and economic calamity follows and the buyer backs out. Does the buyer get their deposit back?
This entire problem exists because of greed and the potential to profit from not entering into one transaction / commitment and entering into another instead. If this can be demonstrated, the scaffolding of the case is pretty strong.
But good....at least I know I'm in the US.
This entire problem exists because of greed and the potential to profit from not entering into one transaction / commitment and entering into another instead. If this can be demonstrated, the scaffolding of the case is pretty strong.
But good....at least I know I'm in the US.
04-05-2018, 04:03 AM
#55
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Oh I see. Thx for clarifying that. In the US we don't sue each other for breach of contract? That was meant to illustrate a point. The issue here is that a deposit was taken......many dealers these days don't take deposits for this exact reason. There is a "list" but no money exchanges hands. Assume that a buyer pays a deposit for a car, orders it, and economic calamity follows and the buyer backs out. Does the buyer get their deposit back?
.
.
04-05-2018, 08:39 AM
#56
If it was me I would write a very clear and accurate letter to PNA and also cc every motoring journal and the local newspaper in the dealers town. I would also include reference to the 918's. The bad taste might provoke a response. The is corruption in a sense as Porsche are allowing the dealer to play games with their product for his own personal gain, if I were Porsche I would be very unhappy indeed.
04-05-2018, 08:56 AM
#57
There are currently 77 2016 GT3 RS's on Cars.com, of which 25 have less than 1,000 miles and 15 less than 500 miles. All are priced above $200k, 16 are above $249k, and one wildly optimistic seller is at $297k with - gasp - 1,100 miles on the odometer. Meanwhile real RS transactions at auction are in the upper 100's, interest rates are headed higher, and market volatility has jumped after years of having no pulse.
The days of the ADM game are numbered. Buyers need to chill; reality is coming. Bad dealers will get burned and/or go belly up. Good dealers that treat customers honestly and fairly will survive and get stronger. The story is as old as time.
The days of the ADM game are numbered. Buyers need to chill; reality is coming. Bad dealers will get burned and/or go belly up. Good dealers that treat customers honestly and fairly will survive and get stronger. The story is as old as time.
04-05-2018, 09:42 AM
#58
Rennlist Member
Corruption
I agree with all of you. I have had all three GT3s 996/997/991. I don't want to play games anymore.
I don't understand why PCNA cant keep track of who buys what.
You get shafted by one dealer so you go to another but you still buy your cars from PCNA.
I got invited to buy a 918 I still have my letter and book. I don't seem to get letters to buy GT cars tho. How hard is it to track people who buys 10-20 cars?They have to know who likes what or why would you get stuff from Porsche? If they CANT figure this out, this will be my last also....
I don't understand why PCNA cant keep track of who buys what.
You get shafted by one dealer so you go to another but you still buy your cars from PCNA.
I got invited to buy a 918 I still have my letter and book. I don't seem to get letters to buy GT cars tho. How hard is it to track people who buys 10-20 cars?They have to know who likes what or why would you get stuff from Porsche? If they CANT figure this out, this will be my last also....
My dealer stuffed me too (although it is a new dealership with 4 GM changes in <2 yrs )
so I found my own, worked the tax angle to offset ADM and I am a happy camper. All this happiness WITHOUT going through my local Porsche dealer !
If it was me I would write a very clear and accurate letter to PNA and also cc every motoring journal and the local newspaper in the dealers town. I would also include reference to the 918's. The bad taste might provoke a response. The is corruption in a sense as Porsche are allowing the dealer to play games with their product for his own personal gain, if I were Porsche I would be very unhappy indeed.
04-05-2018, 10:50 AM
#59
Nordschleife Master
+1
I've bought FIVE GT cars from the same dealer and the same SA. The dealer promised me a 3.2RS allocation when I picked up my 3.2 in the fall. They recently contacted me about the 3.2RS and wanted to buy my 3.2 back. I gladly accepted since I also have a 3.1RS anyhow; no big deal. My 3.2 is gone now and guess what.... My dealer and SA are suddenly very aloof with regard to the 3.2RS allocation.... Certainly disconcerting. I have to say - if the 3.2RS evaporates on me I will certainly be walking on the brand as I do not like to play games with people. I'd likely go figure out a way to get into a new 488 GTB.
- Chris.
I've bought FIVE GT cars from the same dealer and the same SA. The dealer promised me a 3.2RS allocation when I picked up my 3.2 in the fall. They recently contacted me about the 3.2RS and wanted to buy my 3.2 back. I gladly accepted since I also have a 3.1RS anyhow; no big deal. My 3.2 is gone now and guess what.... My dealer and SA are suddenly very aloof with regard to the 3.2RS allocation.... Certainly disconcerting. I have to say - if the 3.2RS evaporates on me I will certainly be walking on the brand as I do not like to play games with people. I'd likely go figure out a way to get into a new 488 GTB.
- Chris.
sad
04-05-2018, 11:37 AM
#60
Rennlist Member
i do speak wilfully provocative:
Why the dealer should not cash in the extra money?
The dealer is the guy who takes and took all the risk and all the cost of driving the business.
Why we as clients want this car + the 200k$ in the pocket?
The dealer is above us in the foodchain.
It is always a question of personal situation. If you buy from your dealer 5 Porsche a year - you will get a GT.
If you buy just GT - because the rest you donīt like or because you donīt want depreciation - why he should give you his 200k cash present?
In EU and a lot of countries ww dealers are not allowed to charge ADM. But so they do it based on relations, paid holidays, buybacks way to cheap, etc. This game exist since the homo sapiens or even since we start to climb trees - some million years ago...
What to do?
If you really want/need one - as you would have bought one back in 2008 or 2002 - pay 100k over - you will get one from your good dealer - as long you share "the pain" with him. And go on loosing 50k each year. As it was normal with such cars.
If you want one - because you just donīt want to lose or want to earn money - you will not get one.
Be honest to yourself and in here. (not pointing on anybody (especially not at the OP, because breaking a "contract" is not ok))
as said. wilfully provocative...
Why the dealer should not cash in the extra money?
The dealer is the guy who takes and took all the risk and all the cost of driving the business.
Why we as clients want this car + the 200k$ in the pocket?
The dealer is above us in the foodchain.
It is always a question of personal situation. If you buy from your dealer 5 Porsche a year - you will get a GT.
If you buy just GT - because the rest you donīt like or because you donīt want depreciation - why he should give you his 200k cash present?
In EU and a lot of countries ww dealers are not allowed to charge ADM. But so they do it based on relations, paid holidays, buybacks way to cheap, etc. This game exist since the homo sapiens or even since we start to climb trees - some million years ago...
What to do?
If you really want/need one - as you would have bought one back in 2008 or 2002 - pay 100k over - you will get one from your good dealer - as long you share "the pain" with him. And go on loosing 50k each year. As it was normal with such cars.
If you want one - because you just donīt want to lose or want to earn money - you will not get one.
Be honest to yourself and in here. (not pointing on anybody (especially not at the OP, because breaking a "contract" is not ok))
as said. wilfully provocative...