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No lift shift in MT 991.2 GT3

 
Old 06-06-2019, 01:37 PM
  #121  
GrantG
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Yeah, I never use rev match on the road either (just occasionally on tight and twisty canyon or mountain roads)...
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Old 06-06-2019, 02:33 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by richardbf View Post
When I started this thread I didn't own a 991.2 gt3. I had a gt4. In the gt4 I always used the rev match. I had some difficulty getting it just right on the street and on track it's a no brainer for me. One less thing to do and I can focus on my line and braking. HOWEVER on my GT3 I never use it on the street. For some reason I feel it's much easier to rev match in this car. Maybe it has to do with the wider engine rev range (I have zero clue) but I can do it perfectly and smoothly every time. And it sounds better lol. So on the street it's no aids. On the track or smokies mountain runs it's on though. Keeping up with Ryan R and Andy P is hard enough lol

I agree. Not sure why some people prefer the GT4 gearbox/clutch. The GT3 seems to catch better and rev match easier for me also. So a smooth and great manual to drive.
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Old 06-06-2019, 03:12 PM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by drdonger View Post
I agree. Not sure why some people prefer the GT4 gearbox/clutch. The GT3 seems to catch better and rev match easier for me also. So a smooth and great manual to drive.
I will say I like the slicker throws of the shifter in the GT4 better but I don't dislike my GT3's gearbox. It just feels a little notchy is all.
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Old 06-06-2019, 03:37 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by Will Motivation
I do exactly the same thing as this here... I have not tried the no lift shift yet but sport mode on manual is good for street use but I would not use it on the track because it also reduces some of the engine braking that you might leverage when releasing the clutch on a downshift into a turn for example...
U never want to leverage engine braking into a corner with a clutch release

Good way to hit a wall
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Old 06-06-2019, 03:39 PM
  #125  
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Originally Posted by richardbf View Post
I will say I like the slicker throws of the shifter in the GT4 better but I don't dislike my GT3's gearbox. It just feels a little notchy is all.
It's funny because some people complain that the GT3 shifter is not notchy enough and they prefer the 997. lol
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Old 06-06-2019, 04:10 PM
  #126  
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Originally Posted by Izzone View Post
U never want to leverage engine braking into a corner with a clutch release

Good way to hit a wall
Yep, the middle pedal does the braking. The engine is for going
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Old 06-06-2019, 06:36 PM
  #127  
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I donít see a point of using the sport mode on daily driving. Imo highway only. That way if you need to speed up fast you can. For the street I thought it was awful. I much rather downshift without it as it helps me stop much better. Iíve gotten use to doing it so much that if I time it correctly I donít even use the brake. With sport mode on you donít slow down as fast. Just my 2 cents
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Old 06-06-2019, 06:45 PM
  #128  
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Originally Posted by Jbravo23 View Post
I don’t see a point of using the sport mode on daily driving. Imo highway only. That way if you need to speed up fast you can. For the street I thought it was awful. I much rather downshift without it as it helps me stop much better. I’ve gotten use to doing it so much that if I time it correctly I don’t even use the brake. With sport mode on you don’t slow down as fast. Just my 2 cents
As mentioned in a couple posts above, you don't want to rely on engine braking whether on road or track. If you are finding the car slowing more when downshifting yourself vs. using Sport button, that means you are not manually rev matching properly and putting extra wear on the clutch and potentially unsettling the balance of the car. The goal is to be (nearly) as seamless yourself as the computer can do it for you. If this means you use the brakes more, remember that brake pads wear much longer and are much cheaper to replace than a clutch (not to mention potential body damage from a spin induced by poor rev matching).
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Old 06-06-2019, 06:53 PM
  #129  
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Originally Posted by GrantG View Post
As mentioned in a couple posts above, you don't want to rely on engine braking whether on road or track. If you are finding the car slowing more when downshifting yourself vs. using Sport button, that means you are not manually rev matching properly and putting extra wear on the clutch and potentially unsettling the balance of the car. The goal is to be (nearly) as seamless yourself as the computer can do it for you. If this means you use the brakes more, remember that brake pads wear much longer and are much cheaper to replace than a clutch (not to mention potential body damage from a spin induced by poor rev matching).
Im no car mechanic or guru, but I donít see how releasing the clutch slowly is putting any extra wear on the clutch. I sold my e46 M3 that I put 130k miles on with its original clutch. Drove the same way. No such thing as rev matching 18 years ago.
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Old 06-06-2019, 07:00 PM
  #130  
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Originally Posted by Jbravo23 View Post
Im no car mechanic or guru, but I donít see how releasing the clutch slowly is putting any extra wear on the clutch. I sold my e46 M3 that I put 130k miles on with its original clutch. Drove the same way. No such thing as rev matching 18 years ago.
Yea I guess I need to learn how to drive again too because I have downshifted for years without trying to rev match in every situation and never had any issues, as I know what to expect when I let out the clutch... And I've never had to replace a clutch in 30 years of driving... But yea I won't argue with anyone as I never took a class on rev matching etc... I'm happy to learn from the experts either way...

I have a feeling this thread is about to take a major detour
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Old 06-06-2019, 07:04 PM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by Jbravo23 View Post
Im no car mechanic or guru, but I don’t see how releasing the clutch slowly is putting any extra wear on the clutch. I sold my e46 M3 that I put 130k miles on with its original clutch. Drove the same way. No such thing as rev matching 18 years ago.
You are releasing the clutch without blipping the motor (enough, if at all) to achieve the higher engine speed required for the lower gear you are selecting and the speed the vehicle is traveling (like the computer does when you press the Sport button). You are relying on the clutch's friction surface to equalize the speed of these 2 objects spinning at dissimilar speeds (the engine's flywheel and the transmission which is connected to the spinning tires). There is a bunch of kinetic energy there that you are converting to heat (wearing the clutch).

More significantly, the wheels are spinning quickly (depending on road speed) and you are connecting them (through the clutch) to an idling (or nearly idling) flywheel which can easily cause the driven wheels to lose traction as they attempt to slow suddenly to match the speed of the flywheel, particularly if the road is wet, icy, snowy, gravel, etc. Even when dry, this is very poor practice. Do a google search on heel-toe downshifting and the necessity for rev matching on downshifts. Your car and your safety will both thank you.

Here are a couple videos to get a start:


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Old 06-06-2019, 07:18 PM
  #132  
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I knew I shouldíve gotten PDK.
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Old 06-06-2019, 07:26 PM
  #133  
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Originally Posted by Jbravo23 View Post
I knew I shouldíve gotten PDK.
I think both are pretty epic in their own way...
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Old 06-06-2019, 08:22 PM
  #134  
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Originally Posted by Jbravo23 View Post
I knew I should’ve gotten PDK.
Just use the Sport button all the time, until you learn to do it on your own (or not).

By the way, it's not necessary to heel-toe downshift in order to rev-match. Heel-toe is the fastest and best way to downshift on a track or if aggressively mountain driving, but you can take your foot off the brake to blip the throttle when downshifting. This way is much easier to learn, but means you need more room for braking as your foot is off the brake pedal for some of the time. Totally fine for relaxed street driving and will teach you the concept and feel of rev matching on your own. After that is comfortable, you can try heel-toe (preferably on a track, in a parking lot, or other safe space).

Last edited by GrantG; 06-06-2019 at 08:50 PM.
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