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No lift shift in MT 991.2 GT3

 
Old 03-13-2018, 10:56 AM
  #46  
Cormid
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Eilig
"Yeah no kidding. Basically you're just pulling a stick instead of flipping a paddle. The net is the same. If I'm going to have a stick, I'd prefer that it be a proper MANUAL, as the current "stick" in the new GT3 is really just a different mechanism of activating the PDK, with the rev matching and no lifting, etc."

Manual = single clutch

Pdk = double clutch auto
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Old 03-13-2018, 11:07 AM
  #47  
meaker
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Wait, none of you have ever done this in a manual before?? I used to do this all the time, when I was a kid, in my fox body Mustang. Now it didn't have a computer holding the revs but you just had to be quick or hit the rev limiter.. and I'm sure without a computer behind it was pretty harsh on the car but those mustangs could take the abuse.
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Old 03-13-2018, 11:15 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by meaker View Post
Wait, none of you have ever done this in a manual before?? I used to do this all the time, when I was a kid, in my fox body Mustang. Now it didn't have a computer holding the revs but you just had to be quick or hit the rev limiter..
I've been wondering about this all this time.

I did a lot of drag racing (slow, sport compact stuff) in my 20's so I like to think I can bang out an up-shift as well as most. I've learned to lay off a little on the track after having instructors tell me I should be nicer to my car. I mean... there's so little lost in being a bit more gentle. It was just habit.

Thing is... I don't really want to match revs on an upshift. I don't keep the pedal flat. That would be dumb as you're just gonna hit the rev limiter. But I sure as hell don't let off completely. It's more of a slight lift to keep the revs high but not too high and then you transfer that flywheel energy to the wheels when you drop the clutch.

So what's this flat-shift thing doing? Is it rev-matching? Is it holding the revs slightly higher? Is it just keeping you from hitting the redline without cutting fuel, essentially managing the throttle for you? What exactly is happening here?
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Old 03-13-2018, 11:24 AM
  #49  
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Not sure it's a huge advantage in an NA car, but in my ex GT2 doing no lift shift keep the Boost higher by about .5 Bar vs regular shifting.

Peter
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Old 03-13-2018, 11:28 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by meaker View Post
Wait, none of you have ever done this in a manual before?? I used to do this all the time, when I was a kid, in my fox body Mustang. Now it didn't have a computer holding the revs but you just had to be quick or hit the rev limiter.. and I'm sure without a computer behind it was pretty harsh on the car but those mustangs could take the abuse.
Exactly, Chris. I thought this was the ONLY way to drive a manual fast. Every manual muscle car i ever owned was powershifted during racing. My GTOís, Mopars, heck even my Zís. But you have to be quick. Those old muscle cars could take it. The reason i went to built automatics (i.e. B&M) with high stall converters was that most people couldnít drive sticks well enough to beat that setup. I canít tell you how many races i won against people blowing 3rd.

Powershifting was the method everyone learned. It isnít that hard, but even if you execute it perfectly, itís no PDK.
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Old 03-13-2018, 01:29 PM
  #51  
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C.J. is correct about the risk of a "money shift." Everyone saying otherwise is missing the point or doesn't understand the machinery. All the electronics in the world can't prevent the engine from being over revved if an inappropriate ratio is chosen. This is not specific to flat shifting but since you're very deliberately shifting the vehicle differently a mistake will be easier to make.

Be careful or Porsche might just need to add a range 7...
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Old 03-13-2018, 02:13 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by FRP View Post
C.J. is correct about the risk of a "money shift." Everyone saying otherwise is missing the point or doesn't understand the machinery. All the electronics in the world can't prevent the engine from being over revved if an inappropriate ratio is chosen. This is not specific to flat shifting but since you're very deliberately shifting the vehicle differently a mistake will be easier to make.

Be careful or Porsche might just need to add a range 7...
One of the reasons I really like the auto-rev-match on downshifts is that it helps prevent a money shift. If you grab the wrong gear or shift too early, it won't rev-match. That's a very obvious cue NOT to let the clutch out. When you re-select the gear at a more agreeable time, it will rev-match properly and away you go.

Obviously you'd get no such help on an up-shift.
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Old 03-13-2018, 02:36 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Wild Weasel
This isn't the case at all. The gear stick is still physically changing the gears through the cables or whatever. The paddles are switches telling the transmission to change the gears itself.

You know you can turn off all this rev matching witchcraft right? Just like you can turn off the traction control if you decide you don't want it. Having it there doesn't mean you need to use it.
Well said! For the millionth time!
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Old 03-13-2018, 03:19 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Cormid View Post
Eilig
"Yeah no kidding. Basically you're just pulling a stick instead of flipping a paddle. The net is the same. If I'm going to have a stick, I'd prefer that it be a proper MANUAL, as the current "stick" in the new GT3 is really just a different mechanism of activating the PDK, with the rev matching and no lifting, etc."

Manual = single clutch

Pdk = double clutch auto
You can turn off rev matching and don't have to no lift shift. It drives just like any other manual. Porsche just gives the option to auto rev match and no lift shift if you want to use it. PDK is an automatic. You can put it in drive and not have to do anything.
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Old 03-14-2018, 09:12 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Wild Weasel View Post
One of the reasons I really like the auto-rev-match on downshifts is that it helps prevent a money shift. If you grab the wrong gear or shift too early, it won't rev-match. That's a very obvious cue NOT to let the clutch out. When you re-select the gear at a more agreeable time, it will rev-match properly and away you go.

Obviously you'd get no such help on an up-shift.
Missed up-shift = $$$$-shift
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Old 03-14-2018, 09:29 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by 1Gunner View Post
Missed up-shift = $$$$-shift
Any shift can be a money shift if you grab a lower gear than you intended, whether up or down.
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Old 03-14-2018, 09:34 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Wild Weasel View Post
Any shift can be a money shift if you grab a lower gear than you intended, whether up or down.
Technically true!

Easy catching a missed down-shift- not so easy catching an up-shift missed.
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Old 03-16-2018, 06:16 PM
  #58  
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This works the same way in the R, tried it today.
I've also done it for years in some race cars, and most rental cars.
(Not in sport...never use the rev-match, as doing it yourself and getting it right is a big part of the fun )
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Old 03-16-2018, 07:25 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Footsoldier View Post
This works the same way in the R, tried it today.
I've also done it for years in some race cars, and most rental cars.
(Not in sport...never use the rev-match, as doing it yourself and getting it right is a big part of the fun )
Did you have the sense that it would be faster on a track or just a gimmick?
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Old 03-17-2018, 12:13 AM
  #60  
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It's definitely faster on a track. Let's call it's a qualifying lap effort and not an enduro race effort.
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