Because PDK: Some observations after a roll race
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
Because PDK: Some observations after a roll race
Note: This is going to be a controversial topic. Please don't shoot the messenger.
A buddy of mine has a pretty well modded GT4. He has Dundon headers (he says they make power!), a tune, an IPD Plenum/GT3 Throttle Body, and maybe some other parts. His GT4 is really nice. Anyways, we get gas on the way to Cars and Coffee and shortly thereafter find ourselves with a very nice open stretch of road. We were probably going 55 to 65 mph, when we jump on it. My .1 GT3 pulls away pretty steadily. I would say a good 1/4 to 1/2 car length immediately opens up, and then it continues to widen. We did it a couple of times, and each time the result was the same. No big deal, as this is a GT3 vs GT4, although a seriously modded GT4.
When we get to C&C he tells me that he did a similar roll race against a friend in his new .2 Manual GT3. Those races resulted in a dead heat, with the GT3 starting to pull away at ridiculous speeds. We have a pretty good group of GT car owners, so this was a bit of a surprise. I guess we were thinking my .1 GT3 would possibly stay even with the GT4, but instead mine just walked away.
I think the reason is pretty clear. The difference is the PDK, with its fast shifts and extra gear/lower final drive versus the 6 speed manual. We could see a noticeable gap open every time the GT4 shifted. Subtle, but maybe a 1/4 car length jump each time. But the GT3 was pulling away each time from the start. The GT4 was quick, though. Those mods made a huge difference, and i am really impressed.
We will try to line up a .1 PDK vs .2 manual at Bandimere so we can see what the rest of the data looks like, but as of right now our assumption will be that 0-60 and 1/4 mile will favor the .1 PDK equipped GT3 over the .2 MT GT3. The .2 PDK should show an even bigger gap.
Btw, we also did a roll race with my .1 GT3 vs a .1 RS. It was essentially dead even. The RS was very low on fuel, while mine had a full tank. No passengers in either car. I think the GT3 would start to pull away at higher speeds due to less aero. That result wasn’t super surprising, but it was a data point.
At some point I am going to get headers. We’ll try to get the GT4, GT3 RS, and both GT3’s at the track to see how they compare, then do headers and try it again. My assumption is that with headers the .1 GT3 should be very competitive with the .2 PDK. But we’ll see.
Next time we will get video. Sorry, this was not planned. We just had a huge open stretch, no cars around, and well...you know.
A buddy of mine has a pretty well modded GT4. He has Dundon headers (he says they make power!), a tune, an IPD Plenum/GT3 Throttle Body, and maybe some other parts. His GT4 is really nice. Anyways, we get gas on the way to Cars and Coffee and shortly thereafter find ourselves with a very nice open stretch of road. We were probably going 55 to 65 mph, when we jump on it. My .1 GT3 pulls away pretty steadily. I would say a good 1/4 to 1/2 car length immediately opens up, and then it continues to widen. We did it a couple of times, and each time the result was the same. No big deal, as this is a GT3 vs GT4, although a seriously modded GT4.
When we get to C&C he tells me that he did a similar roll race against a friend in his new .2 Manual GT3. Those races resulted in a dead heat, with the GT3 starting to pull away at ridiculous speeds. We have a pretty good group of GT car owners, so this was a bit of a surprise. I guess we were thinking my .1 GT3 would possibly stay even with the GT4, but instead mine just walked away.
I think the reason is pretty clear. The difference is the PDK, with its fast shifts and extra gear/lower final drive versus the 6 speed manual. We could see a noticeable gap open every time the GT4 shifted. Subtle, but maybe a 1/4 car length jump each time. But the GT3 was pulling away each time from the start. The GT4 was quick, though. Those mods made a huge difference, and i am really impressed.
We will try to line up a .1 PDK vs .2 manual at Bandimere so we can see what the rest of the data looks like, but as of right now our assumption will be that 0-60 and 1/4 mile will favor the .1 PDK equipped GT3 over the .2 MT GT3. The .2 PDK should show an even bigger gap.
Btw, we also did a roll race with my .1 GT3 vs a .1 RS. It was essentially dead even. The RS was very low on fuel, while mine had a full tank. No passengers in either car. I think the GT3 would start to pull away at higher speeds due to less aero. That result wasn’t super surprising, but it was a data point.
At some point I am going to get headers. We’ll try to get the GT4, GT3 RS, and both GT3’s at the track to see how they compare, then do headers and try it again. My assumption is that with headers the .1 GT3 should be very competitive with the .2 PDK. But we’ll see.
Next time we will get video. Sorry, this was not planned. We just had a huge open stretch, no cars around, and well...you know.
#2
Rennlist Member
I would love to see the results of a 991.1 pdk vs 991.2 pdk vs 991.2 manual test. It’s probably only a matter of time before a video appears on YouTube
#3
Pro
Sorry, your buddy needs to learn how to 'shift'... here's my .2 GT3 6spd vs. a new '18 Turbo S.. from a roll... no way a GT4 plays with this crowd from a roll:
Best Regards,
Dave
Best Regards,
Dave
#4
Burning Brakes
So my buddy did a roll race against a MT .2 GT3 with his GT4. This is not a stock GT4, as it has Dundon headers and a tune. In his words, the GT3 had him by maybe a “splitter’s width.” Essentially it was dead even up until stupid speeds, at which point the .2 MT GT3 started to pull away. Needless to say all parties involved were pretty surprised at the GT4, with minor mods. So anybody wondering if Dundon headers and tune make serious power or not, there you go. They do.
if from the same thread, the GT3 driver's credentials are pretty substantive. The GT4 is lighter, and in this case, with more power, so it's not surprising to me that it is close.
#5
PDK only makes a huge difference if you don’t know how to operate the stick. 1:24.95s manual vs 1:24.66s PDK lap time in this test difference of less than 0.29 seconds: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/porsc...t-test-review/
#7
PDK only makes a huge difference if you don’t know how to operate the stick. 1:24.95s manual vs 1:24.66s PDK lap time in this test difference of less than 0.29 seconds: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/porsc...t-test-review/
Not only that but this impromptu test was don't altitude which the MT test wasn't.
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#9
“Don’t altitude” or not, I think it’s awesome how when you get an MT car you suck at it at first and learn to get better and better, eventually getting within a spitting distance of just having the computer drive for you once you’ve really mastered the car.
#11
Race Director
Thread Starter
Sorry, your buddy needs to learn how to 'shift'... here's my .2 GT3 6spd vs. a new '18 Turbo S.. from a roll... no way a GT4 plays with this crowd from a roll:
https://youtu.be/2nlH8qkgMtw
Best Regards,
Dave
https://youtu.be/2nlH8qkgMtw
Best Regards,
Dave
If this is the same GT4 that was discussed in the GT4 sub-forum, it has more than just headers and tune...
if from the same thread, the GT3 driver's credentials are pretty substantive. The GT4 is lighter, and in this case, with more power, so it's not surprising to me that it is close.
if from the same thread, the GT3 driver's credentials are pretty substantive. The GT4 is lighter, and in this case, with more power, so it's not surprising to me that it is close.
PDK only makes a huge difference if you don’t know how to operate the stick. 1:24.95s manual vs 1:24.66s PDK lap time in this test difference of less than 0.29 seconds: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/porsc...t-test-review/
Thanks! It was fun.
#12
Race Director
Thread Starter
Also, Motor Trend tested the .1 GT3 and got a 0-60 time of 3.1 seconds. The .2 manual GT3 is rated at 3.5 seconds 0-60. Why would this be surprising that the .1 GT3 is faster than the manual .2?
#13
- US mags test 0-60 from a small roll
- You are comparing tested Vs. rated
- 0-60 performance for PDK is mostly about the launch, which is not relevant from a roll
#14
Race Director
Thread Starter
#15
Keep in mind that in addition to the 25 hp the .2 manual gets a weight advantage and lower frictional losses through the gearbox. That’s a 5.3% power advantage, 1.2% weight advantage and ~1% more power making it to the ground due too lower driveline losses. The latter two are likely what allow the manual to run with the PDK from a roll in Porsche’s testing despite both the slower shifting and gearing disadvantage. I suspect as we get more broken in cars into owners hands we’ll get plenty of .1 vs .2 runs to compare that will disprove your assertion above. The .1 will pull on the launch due to launch control, but how often are you launching?