Because PDK: Some observations after a roll race
03-14-2018, 06:43 PM
#121
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
For those not exhausted by the PDK vs. Manual thing yet, this is worth a look:
Video includes Street, Drag Race, Figure-8, and Road Course comparisons
Video described here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...-vs-gt3-m.html
Free Subscription here:
https://www.motortrendondemand.com/
Video includes Street, Drag Race, Figure-8, and Road Course comparisons
Video described here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...-vs-gt3-m.html
Free Subscription here:
https://www.motortrendondemand.com/
04-01-2018, 04:51 PM
#122
Three Wheelin'
So with all the debate about a modded GT4 being as quick as the .2 GT3 I decided to do a few runs against my buddies GT4 today. We did 3 runs with all the same results 60mph-130mph and my GT3 was ahead about 6 car lengths. The GT3 would have pulled another car length or so up to 150. His GT4 is modded with cargraphic race headers, bmc filters, plenum, GT3 throttle body, lightweight wheels and BGB tune. His GT4 is about as fast as a .1 GT3. No way in hell a 991.1 GT3 will keep up with a .2 GT3 manual or pdk. Unless the GT4 in the original post had a 4.0 conversion, it is very unlikely it was neck and neck with a .2 GT3. Trying to figure out how to blur faces and license plates then I will post a vid.
04-01-2018, 05:08 PM
#123
Pro
So with all the debate about a modded GT4 being as quick as the .2 GT3 I decided to do a few runs against my buddies GT4 today. We did 3 runs with all the same results 60mph-130mph and my GT3 was ahead about 6 car lengths. The GT3 would have pulled another car length or so up to 150. His GT4 is modded with cargraphic race headers, bmc filters, plenum, GT3 throttle body, lightweight wheels and BGB tune. His GT4 is about as fast as a .1 GT3. No way in hell a 991.1 GT3 will keep up with a .2 GT3 manual or pdk. Unless the GT4 in the original post had a 4.0 conversion, it is very unlikely it was neck and neck with a .2 GT3. Trying to figure out how to blur faces and license plates then I will post a vid.
Best Regards,
Dave
04-01-2018, 08:30 PM
#125
Race Director
Nice posting - I guess that is the period at the end of a sentence. The .2 GT3 is plenty fast. I wanted to post earlier but never did because did not want to debate but my .2 Manual GT3 is certainly quicker than my previously owned .1 GT3 -PDKs
04-02-2018, 03:42 AM
#128
PDK vs MT aside, it's astounding how much better the new 4.0 litre engine is vs the .1's 3.8. Porsche may not have evolved much in terms of cosmetics, but the gap in performance makes it feel like the .2 is more of a brand new car than an LCI or a small update.
I can't imagine the aero plays a critical role, so it had to be brute power from the engine if anything. Damn, bravo Porsche.
I can't imagine the aero plays a critical role, so it had to be brute power from the engine if anything. Damn, bravo Porsche.
04-03-2018, 12:42 PM
#129
Three Wheelin'
PDK vs MT aside, it's astounding how much better the new 4.0 litre engine is vs the .1's 3.8. Porsche may not have evolved much in terms of cosmetics, but the gap in performance makes it feel like the .2 is more of a brand new car than an LCI or a small update.
I can't imagine the aero plays a critical role, so it had to be brute power from the engine if anything. Damn, bravo Porsche.
I can't imagine the aero plays a critical role, so it had to be brute power from the engine if anything. Damn, bravo Porsche.
In terms of acceleration.
991.2 GT3 PDK > 991.2 GT3 Manual from a dig
991.2 GT3 Manual > 991.2 GT3 PDK from a roll > 991.1 GT3 RS PDK > 991.1 GT3 PDK = modified 981 GT4 BGB
04-03-2018, 01:39 PM
#131
Burning Brakes
Pretty interesting thread.
Same day testing, same driver, from a 10mph 1st gear roll but measuring from 30-60mph, closed road:
C7Z06: 1.72-1.75sec (1st gear runs out at 66mph, so no shift)
991.1TurboS: 1.54-1.65 secs (car has a few upgrades, a good 80hp over stock, sport+, auto-shift)
991.1GT3RS: 1.69-1.72 secs (side mufflers deleted, PDK Sport, auto-shift, all else stock)
Notice how close the 650hp vette, 640hp 991TTS and 500hp GT3RS are. If you start factoring fuel type used, heat soak (what makes a 991TTS lose power after a little while), how much fuel in each car (my RS fuel load can vary the car's weight by 140+ lbs), having a passenger, and the most important difference: not every engine produces the advertised hp/torque, there are variations.
The three cars I'm describing are massively different, yet their acceleration results once rolling are pretty close. After 60mph other factors will play: the massive drag from the RS would slow it down, the C7 has to shift gears manually, the 991TTS is the one that would build a big gap but it needs a serious distance to do it, and most tracks don't have that kind of straights.
991.1 GT3, 991.2 GT3 on all variations are much more closer on specs than the three cars I tested above, so their performance difference in straight line is negligible (and if you think 0.1-0.2 secs is a lot, during repeated testing the same car can vary by this or more).
Same day testing, same driver, from a 10mph 1st gear roll but measuring from 30-60mph, closed road:
C7Z06: 1.72-1.75sec (1st gear runs out at 66mph, so no shift)
991.1TurboS: 1.54-1.65 secs (car has a few upgrades, a good 80hp over stock, sport+, auto-shift)
991.1GT3RS: 1.69-1.72 secs (side mufflers deleted, PDK Sport, auto-shift, all else stock)
Notice how close the 650hp vette, 640hp 991TTS and 500hp GT3RS are. If you start factoring fuel type used, heat soak (what makes a 991TTS lose power after a little while), how much fuel in each car (my RS fuel load can vary the car's weight by 140+ lbs), having a passenger, and the most important difference: not every engine produces the advertised hp/torque, there are variations.
The three cars I'm describing are massively different, yet their acceleration results once rolling are pretty close. After 60mph other factors will play: the massive drag from the RS would slow it down, the C7 has to shift gears manually, the 991TTS is the one that would build a big gap but it needs a serious distance to do it, and most tracks don't have that kind of straights.
991.1 GT3, 991.2 GT3 on all variations are much more closer on specs than the three cars I tested above, so their performance difference in straight line is negligible (and if you think 0.1-0.2 secs is a lot, during repeated testing the same car can vary by this or more).
04-03-2018, 02:09 PM
#132
Lots of differring viewpoints on .1 vs .2mt vs .2pdk vs .1rs performance and times. A good number of people on various threads say that .1 vs .2 is a smaller improvement vs others who say it is much more significant. Would be nice to get more same driver/same track data. Will be even more interesting when .2rs hits.
04-03-2018, 02:09 PM
#133
Three Wheelin'
Pretty interesting thread.
Same day testing, same driver, from a 10mph 1st gear roll but measuring from 30-60mph, closed road:
C7Z06: 1.72-1.75sec (1st gear runs out at 66mph, so no shift)
991.1TurboS: 1.54-1.65 secs (car has a few upgrades, a good 80hp over stock, sport+, auto-shift)
991.1GT3RS: 1.69-1.72 secs (side mufflers deleted, PDK Sport, auto-shift, all else stock)
Notice how close the 650hp vette, 640hp 991TTS and 500hp GT3RS are. If you start factoring fuel type used, heat soak (what makes a 991TTS lose power after a little while), how much fuel in each car (my RS fuel load can vary the car's weight by 140+ lbs), having a passenger, and the most important difference: not every engine produces the advertised hp/torque, there are variations.
The three cars I'm describing are massively different, yet their acceleration results once rolling are pretty close. After 60mph other factors will play: the massive drag from the RS would slow it down, the C7 has to shift gears manually, the 991TTS is the one that would build a big gap but it needs a serious distance to do it, and most tracks don't have that kind of straights.
991.1 GT3, 991.2 GT3 on all variations are much more closer on specs than the three cars I tested above, so their performance difference in straight line is negligible (and if you think 0.1-0.2 secs is a lot, during repeated testing the same car can vary by this or more).
Same day testing, same driver, from a 10mph 1st gear roll but measuring from 30-60mph, closed road:
C7Z06: 1.72-1.75sec (1st gear runs out at 66mph, so no shift)
991.1TurboS: 1.54-1.65 secs (car has a few upgrades, a good 80hp over stock, sport+, auto-shift)
991.1GT3RS: 1.69-1.72 secs (side mufflers deleted, PDK Sport, auto-shift, all else stock)
Notice how close the 650hp vette, 640hp 991TTS and 500hp GT3RS are. If you start factoring fuel type used, heat soak (what makes a 991TTS lose power after a little while), how much fuel in each car (my RS fuel load can vary the car's weight by 140+ lbs), having a passenger, and the most important difference: not every engine produces the advertised hp/torque, there are variations.
The three cars I'm describing are massively different, yet their acceleration results once rolling are pretty close. After 60mph other factors will play: the massive drag from the RS would slow it down, the C7 has to shift gears manually, the 991TTS is the one that would build a big gap but it needs a serious distance to do it, and most tracks don't have that kind of straights.
991.1 GT3, 991.2 GT3 on all variations are much more closer on specs than the three cars I tested above, so their performance difference in straight line is negligible (and if you think 0.1-0.2 secs is a lot, during repeated testing the same car can vary by this or more).
04-03-2018, 02:14 PM
#134
Three Wheelin'
Lots of differring viewpoints on .1 vs .2mt vs .2pdk vs .1rs performance and times. A good number of people on various threads say that .1 vs .2 is a smaller improvement vs others who say it is much more significant. Would be nice to get more same driver/same track data. Will be even more interesting when .2rs hits.
04-03-2018, 07:22 PM
#135
Burning Brakes
You are comparing apples to oranges here. 30-60 mph gives you no real performance indication. To truly compare acceleration times you need to do 60-130 mph rolls or 30-150 mph rolls. The acceleration difference between a 991.1 GT3 and 991.2 GT3 is significant. It will be more than 0.1 difference. This is roughly 7 car lengths in difference. Which would be a 0.5 second difference from 30-150 mph. That is hardly negligible. Imagine two long straights at a track like COTA. That is a full second lap difference just on the two straights.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ojd4BrHZS0&t=244s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ojd4BrHZS0&t=244s
Up to 60mph or 75mph (maximum legal speed limit for most of U.S.) these 991.1 or 991.2 GT3/GT3RS PDK or manual are very close in straight line acceleration/deceleration (using equal tires). Plenty of instrumented tests on straight line show the numbers. Entertaining videos of cars jumping the start, unknown fuel loads, cars with passengers vs. car without passengers, are all entertaining, but not realistic of true performance gap (although that lambo vs. 991.2 gt3 video from a roll was one of the best and most accurate I have seen).
I wanted to post how close it is between 2 really powerful cars with 650 and 640hp, and a decent 991 GT3 RS (it has a 4.0 and shorter R&P gear than a regular GT3), big power differences, and not the 25hp between the 991.1 and 991.2 GT3, yet close.