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And other people have driven MT's for decades, are proficient with them and don't "need" a PDK gearbox yet think that it is a better match for the 991 variant of the GT3 than a manual. You may try to paint everyone who prefers PDK in this application as "Rick Bobby", but it's an inaccurate characterization. Peace out.
Every driver is different, so of course it doesn’t apply to everyone, but we all agree they’re out there.
And I agree as well that if your goal is to coax that last couple tenths out, then PDK is the proper tool. But propagating inaccuracies like the OP is doing about PDK being massively faster than the manual is likely to encourage more people like me, that are more about driving curvies or enjoying the car as a daily driver with only rare track use, to buy the PDK and hate it like I did and do.
Every driver is different, so of course it doesn’t apply to everyone, but we all agree they’re out there.
And I agree as well that if your goal is to coax that last couple tenths out, then PDK is the proper tool. But propagating inaccuracies like the OP is doing about PDK being massively faster than the manual is likely to encourage more people like me, that are more about driving curvies or enjoying the car as a daily driver with only rare track use, to buy the PDK and hate it like I did and do.
Rob is simply sharing his driving experience with us. Sorry you are not happy with the outcome
Originally Posted by Dewinator
Sure ...but manuals are more fun to drive in addition to having higher resale down the road. Win-win.
Every driver is different, so of course it doesn’t apply to everyone, but we all agree they’re out there.
And I agree as well that if your goal is to coax that last couple tenths out, then PDK is the proper tool. But propagating inaccuracies like the OP is doing about PDK being massively faster than the manual is likely to encourage more people like me, that are more about driving curvies or enjoying the car as a daily driver with only rare track use, to buy the PDK and hate it like I did and do.
There is an important lesson to learn here, so here is my attempt to help you understand it. I have driven manuals all my life. When you were probably not even born yet I was drag racing manual transmissions using the lost art of power shifting. It was all we knew. Then I got into built automatics, like those offered by B&M. We are talking reverse valve body, high stall converter automatics that were the ancestors of the PDK. There are many people on this board who know how to drive manuals, but prefer the PDK for a variety of reasons. None of these reasons have anything to do with "not wanting to learn to drive a stick." I personally feel that the PDK just perfectly suits the GT3, and it unlocks the car on the street, and the track. It is just the highest performance option for the car, and let's face it, a lot of people tick options to get the highest performance configuration. To those of us who have ticked the PDK option (which in the 991.1 was the only option), we are not upset or disappointed by the choice. We wanted it and enjoy the heck out of it. It has nothing to do about not wanting to learn how to use a manual.
As far as propagating inaccuracies, I shared an experience. A buddy of mine in a modded GT4 raced a .2 GT3 owner (who is an excellent driver with way more track experience that most of the guys here have) to a draw up to about 100 mph. I raced the same GT4 and walked away from him multiple times. What does that mean? I don't know. But it is a data point that needs to be confirmed, which I said we would try to do. Not sure what else to tell you. It isn't like I made it up. Besides, the 0-60 times favor the .1 GT3 over the .2 MT. The 1/4 mile times favor the .1 GT3 over the .2 MT. Not sure what to say other than we will try to confirm it on the track, at which point everyone will say those results don't matter because the PDK has the advantage with LC.
Sorry, your buddy needs to learn how to 'shift'... here's my .2 GT3 6spd vs. a new '18 Turbo S.. from a roll... no way a GT4 plays with this crowd from a roll:
It looks like the manual .2 GT3 is putting down more power. Either way the .2 GT3 is about 10 car lengths faster than the .1. I highly doubt the GT4 can come close. If you .1 pulls away steadily and the .2 GT3 can pull away steadily from a .1. Then the .2 GT3 would run away from a GT4.
It looks like the manual .2 GT3 is putting down more power. Either way the .2 GT3 is about 10 car lengths faster than the .1. I highly doubt the GT4 can come close. If you .1 pulls away steadily and the .2 GT3 can pull away steadily from a .1. Then the .2 GT3 would run away from a GT4.
This video was PDK vs PDK. Nobody is saying the .1 will beat a .2 PDK car, although with headers and a tune I like my chances. And...the GT4 was modded. Headers, tune. throttle body. It was pushing out a lot more power vs stock.
One thing i did run across was a difference in the final drive ratio. The .1 PDK is 3.97 while the .2 MT is 3.75. That should give a gearing advantage to the PDK.
Hi Rob - that would be a big advantage for the PDK (nearly 6%), if the individual gear ratios (1st through 6th or 7th) were identical between Manual and PDK. But they're not. To get the overall gear ratio, you need to multiply the ratio of the individual gear and the Final drive. Once you do that, you'll see that the Manual and PDK have very similar ratios in 1st through 4th gears (within a couple/few %), but then PDK enjoys a larger benefit in gears 5th, 6th and 7th (5th doesn't happen until very high speeds if you drive Manual to redline in 4th - probably ~150mph).
Since the average 1/4 mile or roll-race is not going to include speeds above 150 mph, the better gearing of PDK is not going to come into play much.
Hi Rob - that would be a big advantage for the PDK (nearly 6%), if the individual gear ratios (1st through 6th or 7th) were identical between Manual and PDK. But they're not. To get the overall gear ratio, you need to multiply the ratio of the individual gear and the Final drive. Once you do that, you'll see that the Manual and PDK have very similar ratios in 1st through 4th gears (within a couple/few %), but then PDK enjoys a larger benefit in gears 5th, 6th and 7th (5th doesn't happen until very high speeds if you drive Manual to redline in 4th - probably ~150mph).
Hey Grant. I thought the data I found showed them being identical between gears 1-4, but the final drive was different. I guess I either looked at the data wrong, or didn't understand the data I was reading.
The gear ratios are essentially the same for the 997 GT3 RS and the 991.2 GT3/911R. What I think is different here is the listing of constant on the final drive ratio of the 911R. This I believe is an idler gear or drop gear configuration on the final drive. So the effective ratio of the final drive is figured by multiplying the listed ratio by the constant ratio.
3.091 x 1.216 = 3.757 Final Drive
The PDK had...
First Gear Ratio: 3.75
Second Gear Ratio: 2.38
Third Gear Ratio: 1.72
Fourth Gear Ratio: 1.34
Fifth Gear Ratio: 1.11
Sixth Gear Ratio: 0.96
Seventh Gear Ratio: 0.84
Yes, changing the Final Drive of a particular car to be lower will have some desirable effects wrt acceleration. But comparing the Final Drive of two cars with dissimilar gear ratios has no meaning without also considering the individual gear ratios as well - just as comparing the individual gear ratios of two cars is meaningless without considering the final drive or tire diameters...
Yes, changing the Final Drive of a particular car to be lower will have some desirable effects wrt acceleration. But comparing the Final Drive of two cars with dissimilar gear ratios has no meaning without also considering the individual gear ratios as well - just as comparing the individual gear ratios of two cars is meaningless without considering the final drive or tire diameters...
The gear ratios are essentially the same for the 997 GT3 RS and the 991.2 GT3/911R. What I think is different here is the listing of constant on the final drive ratio of the 911R. This I believe is an idler gear or drop gear configuration on the final drive. So the effective ratio of the final drive is figured by multiplying the listed ratio by the constant ratio.
3.091 x 1.216 = 3.757 Final Drive
The PDK had...
First Gear Ratio: 3.75
Second Gear Ratio: 2.38
Third Gear Ratio: 1.72
Fourth Gear Ratio: 1.34
Fifth Gear Ratio: 1.11
Sixth Gear Ratio: 0.96
Seventh Gear Ratio: 0.84
Final Drive Axle Ratio: 3.97
What am I missing buddy?
OK, this is much more useful data (you added additional stuff after my first reply). If correct, it implies a gearing advantage for the PDK of 5.67%. However, I think I have seen different numbers before that implied a much smaller gap. If I can find it, I'll post here. Happy to have the conversation
OK, this is much more useful data (you added additional stuff after my first reply). If correct, it implies a gearing advantage for the PDK of 5.67%. However, I think I have seen different numbers before that implied a much smaller gap. If I can find it, I'll post here. Happy to have the conversation
Cool! See what you can dig up. Just because I found this data it doesn't guarantee it is right!
I looked through my old gearing spreadsheets and found a variety of different numbers for the Manual's Final Drive. Hopefully, someone will chime in with a confirmation of the exact number. Anyway, here is a chart for PDK first:
03-13-2018, 02:11 AM
