Because PDK: Some observations after a roll race
03-11-2018, 10:34 PM
#16
03-11-2018, 10:46 PM
#18
You know what they say about making assumptions, right?
03-11-2018, 10:51 PM
#19
Race Director
Thread Starter
I think time will prove that statement quite inaccurate, and quite a stretch from thin data. Porsche quotes identical 100-200 kph times for the PDK and manual in the .2, and they state they are very even in their own roll-on testing. Either Porsche’s times are incorrect or the .1’s going to get dropped from a roll through that speed range.
Keep in mind that in addition to the 25 hp the .2 manual gets a weight advantage and lower frictional losses through the gearbox. That’s a 5.3% power advantage, 1.2% weight advantage and ~1% more power making it to the ground due too lower driveline losses. The latter two are likely what allow the manual to run with the PDK from a roll in Porsche’s testing despite both the slower shifting and gearing disadvantage. I suspect as we get more broken in cars into owners hands we’ll get plenty of .1 vs .2 runs to compare that will disprove your assertion above. The .1 will pull on the launch due to launch control, but how often are you launching?
We’ll try to get a head to head to confirm.
. And, i did say we would try to follow it up by going to our local drag strip. That will be the confirmation. This is one result. One data point. Oh come on, i haven’t posted anything controversial about these cars. lol. People know i wouldn’t BS anyone here. The results are the results. The “why” is what is missing. I tend to think PDK > MT (speed wise), considering gearing, but there could be other reasons. Not opposed to considering them.
Just sharing a data point. More data to come hopefully.
03-11-2018, 10:52 PM
#20
Race Director
Thread Starter
03-11-2018, 10:58 PM
#21
As much as I would like to buy into this, I’m skeptical. The delta between the .2 PDK and 6MT isn’t that much (especially from a roll) as evidenced by tested lap times within 1sec of each other. To think that a .1 PDK walks away from a .2 MT is hard to reconcile. I suspect the drivers of each car (.2 GT3 and modded GT4) played a bigger factor in the test than you realize. I’ll reserve judgment until further real world results emerge...
03-11-2018, 11:14 PM
#22
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Akunob wrote
Especially when you consider Porsche put in the speed shift feature and the rev match, effectively taking out any proficiency with the MT. You can basically shift the Manual just like a PDK at full RPM without lifting. The Manual is almost as automated as the PDK.
As much as I would like to buy into this, I’m skeptical. The delta between the .2 PDK and 6MT isn’t that much (especially from a roll) as evidenced by tested lap times within 1sec of each other. To think that a .1 PDK walks away from a .2 MT is hard to reconcile. I suspect the drivers of each car (.2 GT3 and modded GT4) played a bigger factor in the test than you realize. I’ll reserve judgment until further real world results emerge...
03-11-2018, 11:17 PM
#23
Race Director
Thread Starter
As much as I would like to buy into this, I’m skeptical. The delta between the .2 PDK and 6MT isn’t that much (especially from a roll) as evidenced by tested lap times within 1sec of each other. To think that a .1 PDK walks away from a .2 MT is hard to reconcile. I suspect the drivers of each car (.2 GT3 and modded GT4) played a bigger factor in the test than you realize. I’ll reserve judgment until further real world results emerge...
I know this goes against the narrative but what can i say. And the interesting thing is i was dead even with the RS. too. Maybe it is my loose “high mileage” GT3.
03-12-2018, 12:30 AM
#26
Rennlist Member
Interesting previous comment on manual cars being 30% more in value in 15 years...winged PDK versus winged Manual or winged PDK versus touring Manual ? Will be interesting to watch....hopefully people that can afford these cars are not millennials who mostly will be into self driving cars by then and don't know how to drive a manual...LOL...touring cars might be the ones to hold value best since they seem to only be less than 10% of production base on Rennlist posts....but primary goal of a GT3 is to drive it and enjoy!! You can't take it with you.......
03-12-2018, 12:46 AM
#27
Race Director
Thread Starter
03-12-2018, 01:14 AM
#28
Pro
Best Regards,
Dave
03-12-2018, 01:24 AM
#29
Race Director
Thread Starter
From Evo...
Porsche quotes a 0-62mph time of 3.4 seconds and 197mph flat out for the PDK version, and 3.9 seconds and 198mph for the manual.
The .1 GT3 was quoted at 3.5 seconds by Porsche. I guess i am not sure why Porsche says this? There is a half second difference between the .2 PDK and .2 MT from 0-60. That is pretty significant imo. The .2 PDK is .1 second quicker than the .1 per Porsche. I guess i don’t see why it is such a stretch to think the .1 will be faster than the .2 manual? Even Porsche says it is true.
Not trying to start a controversy, but Porsche’ own estimates have the .1 GT3 about .4 seconds quicker than the .2 MT, and we just did a roll race that essentially confirms that there is a gap. We’ll do another test under controlled circumstances, so maybe things will change, but i don’t see why the results would be that different. Porsche themselves says the .1 is faster. From a dead stop the PDK has an even greater advantage. The .1 should walk away from the .2 manual if Porsche estimates are correct.
One thing i did run across was a difference in the final drive ratio. The .1 PDK is 3.97 while the .2 MT is 3.75. That should give a gearing advantage to the PDK.
Not sure guys. Just reporting the result.
Porsche quotes a 0-62mph time of 3.4 seconds and 197mph flat out for the PDK version, and 3.9 seconds and 198mph for the manual.
The .1 GT3 was quoted at 3.5 seconds by Porsche. I guess i am not sure why Porsche says this? There is a half second difference between the .2 PDK and .2 MT from 0-60. That is pretty significant imo. The .2 PDK is .1 second quicker than the .1 per Porsche. I guess i don’t see why it is such a stretch to think the .1 will be faster than the .2 manual? Even Porsche says it is true.
Not trying to start a controversy, but Porsche’ own estimates have the .1 GT3 about .4 seconds quicker than the .2 MT, and we just did a roll race that essentially confirms that there is a gap. We’ll do another test under controlled circumstances, so maybe things will change, but i don’t see why the results would be that different. Porsche themselves says the .1 is faster. From a dead stop the PDK has an even greater advantage. The .1 should walk away from the .2 manual if Porsche estimates are correct.
One thing i did run across was a difference in the final drive ratio. The .1 PDK is 3.97 while the .2 MT is 3.75. That should give a gearing advantage to the PDK.
Not sure guys. Just reporting the result.
03-12-2018, 01:28 AM
#30
Three Wheelin'
No way in hell the GT4 came close to a .2 GT3 manual. Especially from a roll. I have owned both cars. The .2 GT3 has a ton more torque and hp. Just took the GT3 to the track this weekend and it is faster in every way by a large margin. The .2 GT3 manual is faster than a .1 GT3 and probably .1 RS. The manual .2 GT3 have been dynoing over 100 rwhp more than a GT4. There is a video of a manual GT3 beating a Turbo S. My manual GT4 was dead even with a 991.1 Carrera S. A Turbo would leave the GT4 in the dust. The GT4 is a great car and handles realpy well, but straigjt line speed is not its strong suit.