Key secret why 991.2 GT3 RS will post some great lap times
03-10-2018, 06:20 PM
#46
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Additionally as someone mentioned it would not void a warranty if you put a lithium battery in the car as long as you weren't changing/modifying anything, which you don't have to do. The last note is that you do have to update your PIWIS when you put the Lithium Battery in your car. As we get closer to finishing our mounting system for the 991.1s I will make a post about it. The first models we are focusing on are the GT3s/Turbos since they have the same battery tray are in them....we are looking into if some of the other models share the same battery tray area.
If you are interested in Lithium Batteries you can see our new RS-30 battery here... it is the most advance Lithium Battery in the Market by a big margin... if you have any questions you can PM me... I don't want to hi-jack the thread, just wanted to provide some information.
https://shop.antigravitybatteries.co...es/automotive/
03-10-2018, 06:39 PM
#47
Hi All, we are a Lithium Battery Company named Antigravity Batteries.... we just became Vendors here on the site. In fact we just bought a .1 RS just this past Wednesday.... (WOO-HOOOOO!). But the RS does not come with the Lithium Battery from Porsche in it, it is an option on it... but at $4500.00 dollars it's definitely not worth it. But we actually are developing a kit for the 991.1 models using our new RS-30 Lightweight Lithium Battery we recently came out with. It will be a very easy install and nothing more than what is required to install a stock lead/acid battery. We are now developing the kit for it since our battery is physically smaller than the stock battery. It also save about 40 pounds over the stock battery... It weighs 10.5Lbs, and has over 1000 cranking amps.... oh but the kicker is it can't leave you stranded! Meaning it has what we call our RE-START Technology, so this battery won't ever go completely dead, it puts itself to sleep before it will allow it self to over-discharge.... Yet the amazing thing is all you do it push a button on the battery and it will start the vehicle again. No need for a jump starter or other device. If you can get in the truck to access the battery you will never be stranded!
Additionally as someone mentioned it would not void a warranty if you put a lithium battery in the car as long as you weren't changing/modifying anything, which you don't have to do. The last note is that you do have to update your PIWIS when you put the Lithium Battery in your car. As we get closer to finishing our mounting system for the 991.1s I will make a post about it. The first models we are focusing on are the GT3s/Turbos since they have the same battery tray are in them....we are looking into if some of the other models share the same battery tray area.
If you are interested in Lithium Batteries you can see our new RS-30 battery here... it is the most advance Lithium Battery in the Market by a big margin... if you have any questions you can PM me... I don't want to hi-jack the thread, just wanted to provide some information.
https://shop.antigravitybatteries.co...es/automotive/
Additionally as someone mentioned it would not void a warranty if you put a lithium battery in the car as long as you weren't changing/modifying anything, which you don't have to do. The last note is that you do have to update your PIWIS when you put the Lithium Battery in your car. As we get closer to finishing our mounting system for the 991.1s I will make a post about it. The first models we are focusing on are the GT3s/Turbos since they have the same battery tray are in them....we are looking into if some of the other models share the same battery tray area.
If you are interested in Lithium Batteries you can see our new RS-30 battery here... it is the most advance Lithium Battery in the Market by a big margin... if you have any questions you can PM me... I don't want to hi-jack the thread, just wanted to provide some information.
https://shop.antigravitybatteries.co...es/automotive/
03-10-2018, 06:41 PM
#48
Hi All, we are a Lithium Battery Company named Antigravity Batteries.... we just became Vendors here on the site. In fact we just bought a .1 RS just this past Wednesday.... (WOO-HOOOOO!). But the RS does not come with the Lithium Battery from Porsche in it, it is an option on it... but at $4500.00 dollars it's definitely not worth it. But we actually are developing a kit for the 991.1 models using our new RS-30 Lightweight Lithium Battery we recently came out with. It will be a very easy install and nothing more than what is required to install a stock lead/acid battery. We are now developing the kit for it since our battery is physically smaller than the stock battery. It also save about 40 pounds over the stock battery... It weighs 10.5Lbs, and has over 1000 cranking amps.... oh but the kicker is it can't leave you stranded! Meaning it has what we call our RE-START Technology, so this battery won't ever go completely dead, it puts itself to sleep before it will allow it self to over-discharge.... Yet the amazing thing is all you do it push a button on the battery and it will start the vehicle again. No need for a jump starter or other device. If you can get in the truck to access the battery you will never be stranded!
Additionally as someone mentioned it would not void a warranty if you put a lithium battery in the car as long as you weren't changing/modifying anything, which you don't have to do. The last note is that you do have to update your PIWIS when you put the Lithium Battery in your car. As we get closer to finishing our mounting system for the 991.1s I will make a post about it. The first models we are focusing on are the GT3s/Turbos since they have the same battery tray are in them....we are looking into if some of the other models share the same battery tray area.
If you are interested in Lithium Batteries you can see our new RS-30 battery here... it is the most advance Lithium Battery in the Market by a big margin... if you have any questions you can PM me... I don't want to hi-jack the thread, just wanted to provide some information.
https://shop.antigravitybatteries.co...es/automotive/
Additionally as someone mentioned it would not void a warranty if you put a lithium battery in the car as long as you weren't changing/modifying anything, which you don't have to do. The last note is that you do have to update your PIWIS when you put the Lithium Battery in your car. As we get closer to finishing our mounting system for the 991.1s I will make a post about it. The first models we are focusing on are the GT3s/Turbos since they have the same battery tray are in them....we are looking into if some of the other models share the same battery tray area.
If you are interested in Lithium Batteries you can see our new RS-30 battery here... it is the most advance Lithium Battery in the Market by a big margin... if you have any questions you can PM me... I don't want to hi-jack the thread, just wanted to provide some information.
https://shop.antigravitybatteries.co...es/automotive/
Love it. Thanks.
03-10-2018, 07:05 PM
#49
Can you please expound on your 20% delta figure and how you arrived at that number????
Horsepower is not a 20% delta increase. It's 4% increase. As noted by AP most incresae comes from center exhaust and flash to ECU. Dundon headers, GMG headers will give you more than 20hp increase for the .1RS. Theoretically could just do a tune/flash download also for the extra ponies on the .1RS. Same basic 4.0 except for solid lifters.
Torque is a 0% increase.
New stiffer front and rear springs by a larger percentage yes. But stiffer is not always better depending on circuit. Advnatage at the Ring since relatively smooth and fast. Getting the same stiffer springs, softer sways and tweeked valving for dampers won't be hard for the .1RS. Would opt for the BBi suspension kit as it comes with improved control arms with rose joints.
Aero. About the same.
Tires. .2GT3RS much better tires. Easily changed for .1RS.
Weight about the same.
Is the .2GT3RS faster then the .1RS stock for stock? Sure. No argument. It's an incremental improvement. As someone mentioned AP will have selective memory about the poor weather conditions for the previous .1RS Ring time.
I'm not saying the .2GT3RS doesn't advance the ball on overall track performance. It does. Incrementally.
I love the new .2GT3RS. Hoping to get one. But it's not leaps and bounds faster. It is faster but incrementally. Give it another 20 hp and reposition the lump to the RSR position now we are talking another ball game.
Until then its the usual PAG evolution on refresh.
Resale of course would be affected with track mods but if your heavily tracking your RS your taking a beating on resale anyway and likely don't care about resale otherwise you wouldn't be modding it or tracking it alot. Non issue in my mind if that's what your using the car for.
Horsepower is not a 20% delta increase. It's 4% increase. As noted by AP most incresae comes from center exhaust and flash to ECU. Dundon headers, GMG headers will give you more than 20hp increase for the .1RS. Theoretically could just do a tune/flash download also for the extra ponies on the .1RS. Same basic 4.0 except for solid lifters.
Torque is a 0% increase.
New stiffer front and rear springs by a larger percentage yes. But stiffer is not always better depending on circuit. Advnatage at the Ring since relatively smooth and fast. Getting the same stiffer springs, softer sways and tweeked valving for dampers won't be hard for the .1RS. Would opt for the BBi suspension kit as it comes with improved control arms with rose joints.
Aero. About the same.
Tires. .2GT3RS much better tires. Easily changed for .1RS.
Weight about the same.
Is the .2GT3RS faster then the .1RS stock for stock? Sure. No argument. It's an incremental improvement. As someone mentioned AP will have selective memory about the poor weather conditions for the previous .1RS Ring time.
I'm not saying the .2GT3RS doesn't advance the ball on overall track performance. It does. Incrementally.
I love the new .2GT3RS. Hoping to get one. But it's not leaps and bounds faster. It is faster but incrementally. Give it another 20 hp and reposition the lump to the RSR position now we are talking another ball game.
Until then its the usual PAG evolution on refresh.
Resale of course would be affected with track mods but if your heavily tracking your RS your taking a beating on resale anyway and likely don't care about resale otherwise you wouldn't be modding it or tracking it alot. Non issue in my mind if that's what your using the car for.
My point is, porsche made a lot of little improvements all around, from decrasing cabin weight, reducing body panel weight, decreasing a lot of drag, adding more downforce, increasing lower pressure zones, upgrades to the lsd, pdk, power, engine internals friction, more power, suspension, both on spring rates and damper, solid mounts everywhere, less unsprung weight.
All of these put together make the old rs slower, unless you do the same exact mods, but then you are fkd by warranty, what makes these cars so atractive.
You can get away with a pair of headers maybe coilovers and you might have to take both out before you go for a warranty claim. If you do all of those mods and you have enough to not care about warranty, why don't just go to a 2 rs? Better base.
Then on your mods. Bilstein clubsport are so far from being even worthy of mention, if you are spending the money just go tractive.
Lars Kers already drove a couple of manthey cars. If he was the one doing the manthey lap, sub 7:05 wouldn't be farfetched tho.
Manthey car has the aero upgrades that work, kw competion, magnesium wheels (the same exact ones from the wp package), solid bushes (i think) and trofeo r (the new track tire from Porsche will not be (much) faster than trofeo r, maybe more durable). People with this pack on the ring are saving around more than 15 seconds from the standard car with alignment.
In the end, the new car with the right spec, a set dundon headers and a set of tractive/kw race coilovers will be far superior/faster than a 1.RS with the same or even more mods.
03-10-2018, 07:10 PM
#50
Massive increase in downforce? Per the AP carfection video, on the max setting (rear wing angle and front blocks) it produces the same as the gt2rs, 430kg but at 300km/h or max speed. That's hardly a 100kg increase and no corner is ever going to be taken at that speed. At a more typical corner say at 150km/h it's 25kg of downforce, the impact on a 1500kg car is going to be negligible.
Massive might be a slight overstatement, but consider: they've added nearly as much downforce as the 991.1 GT3 makes period, so if you find that amount noticeable you should notice this as well. Obviously at lower speeds you'll never see it, but at 200 kph the 991.2 GT3 will brake and corner with nearly .04 more Gs. That lets it carry 4 kph more speed through a 200 kph high speed kink based on aero alone- not bad speed to carry down a straight.
We'll need to wait and see, but I suspect the biggest change will be in feel. On paper the 997 GT3 RS 4.0 has very little on the 3.8 RS. In practice, however, it's a whole different ball of wax, the extra development time resulting in the package coming together in ways that can't be accounted for on the spec sheet. I also suspect the ride won't suffer nearly as much as many expect; in my experience even massive increases in spring rate (ie 993 GT2 vs 993 RS) don't tank the ride if the damping is great and chassis stiff enough. Thus I'm expecting a lot when drivers finally get behind the wheel, and I look forward to the increase in track focus and distance between the GT3 and RS.
Last edited by Petevb; 03-10-2018 at 07:26 PM.
03-10-2018, 07:19 PM
#51
Massive increase in downforce? Per the AP carfection video, on the max setting (rear wing angle and front blocks) it produces the same as the gt2rs, 430kg but at 300km/h or max speed. That's hardly a 100kg increase and no corner is ever going to be taken at that speed. At a more typical corner say at 150km/h it's 25kg of downforce, the impact on a 1500kg car is going to be negligible. Also that same video mentioned that like for like, the new car is 6kg lighter. Not exactly big weight reduction is it?
the suspension/rose joints really is the main change, plus as the usual little small improvements that do add up but in all honesty, if SportAuto did a back to back test of the old 991.1rs with the only change with the new tyre and the new car, I very much doubt the difference will be as significant as being made out by some.
Add all the weight reduction, better aero (more downforce, less drag), better rws, better steering, solid bushings, better suspension, more power. It's at least 3 seconds faster in the same tires.
03-10-2018, 07:52 PM
#52
Massive might be a slight overstatement, but consider: they've added nearly as much downforce as the 991.1 GT3 makes period, so if you find that amount noticeable you should notice this as well. Obviously at lower speeds you'll never see it, but at 200 kph the 991.2 GT3 will brake and corner with nearly .04 more Gs. That lets it carry 4 kph more speed through a 200 kph high speed kink based on aero alone- not bad speed to carry down a straight.
Fair, but I think the point is that you don't need to spec it like for like.
We'll need to wait and see, but I suspect the biggest change will be in feel. On paper the 997 GT3 RS 4.0 has very little on the 3.8 RS. In practice, however, it's a whole different ball of wax, the extra development time resulting in the package coming together in ways that can't be accounted for on the spec sheet. I also suspect the ride won't suffer nearly as much as many expect; in my experience even massive increases in spring rate (ie 993 GT2 vs 993 RS) don't tank the ride if the damping is great and chassis stiff enough. Thus I'm expecting a lot when drivers finally get behind the wheel, and I look forward to the increase in track focus and distance between the GT3 and RS.Fair, but I think the point is that you don't need to spec it like for like.
The only 'fair' way to truly compare the weights between 2 cars is surely with the same spec as otherwise you're not comparing apples to apples. I typically am going to spec a car quite the same, clubsport roll cage, steel brakes, as far as I can see the .2rs for me is going to be only 6kg lighter...
Agreed the biggest difference will be in feel. Setup the same way, I am not sure I entirely agree the 3.8rs was that different to the 4.0 but that I suppose is subjective and I'm happy to defer to you as I've only had a short go in the 3.8.
Still think tyres are by far the biggest differentiator in performance of newer iterations of cars though. Just as with the gt3, a 'fair' back to back test of the old car vs new car on identical tyres I think would be awfully informative. the chances of the likes of SportAuto doing this are zero though sadly.
03-10-2018, 08:36 PM
#53
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We do ship all over the world, for this battery we do not have any distributors in Europe though our UK Distributor may have some coming. Where are you. The issue is Lithium is expensive to ship overseas. If you get me an address I can get you a quote on shipping. But best PM me so we don't interrupt the thread with this.
03-10-2018, 08:58 PM
#54
Drifting
Call me brainwashed by Porsche marketing. When the new RS comes out, I sell my old one and buy the new one. Life is short. It's all about new experiences for me: incremental or revolutionary. If u r an RS nut, you can feel even little wiggle of difference porsche throws into the new formula and it gets my blood going; so I'll take the 991.2rs, 992.1rs, 992.2rs and on and on.
agree 100%. Everyone is going completely ape kaka over the changes from GT3.1 to GT3.2; why wouldn’t there be a similar upgrade in terms of performance/feel/feedback in the RS.2 as well?
03-10-2018, 10:14 PM
#55
Pro
The .2 GT3 is faster than the .1 GT3RS... the .2GT3RS is faster than the .2 GT3.
You can mod your .1 RS or mod your .2 GT3... for less than the new .2 RS.. but it won't be a new .2 RS.
Leave mods and tires out of it... you either want the newer faster car, or you don't. Great think about 'Choices'
Best Regards,
Dave
You can mod your .1 RS or mod your .2 GT3... for less than the new .2 RS.. but it won't be a new .2 RS.
Leave mods and tires out of it... you either want the newer faster car, or you don't. Great think about 'Choices'
Best Regards,
Dave
03-11-2018, 06:49 AM
#57
Still think tyres are by far the biggest differentiator in performance of newer iterations of cars though. Just as with the gt3, a 'fair' back to back test of the old car vs new car on identical tyres I think would be awfully informative. the chances of the likes of SportAuto doing this are zero though sadly.
Agreed, Its all about tires for a few hot laps - and there are real surprises out there - for example I have seen a 997 GT3 Series II knock off a 991.1GT3RS. The 997 was on Advan 050 - soft front and medium rear. The RS was on MPSC2................Both drivers at various times competed in the national Cup comp. The MPSC2s are good for a few hot laps, the Trofeo Rs are better for a few more. Personally, I don't like the side wall in both - too much give.
The real world difference between these cars will come down to the drivers - one butchered corner and you can lose 1s.....
03-11-2018, 09:51 AM
#58
"The .2 GT3 is faster than the .1 GT3RS... the .2GT3RS is faster than the .2 GT3."
Highly highly doubt this. Im willing to bet my .1 RS on N2 is faster than a GT3 (and not far from a .2 RS on many tracks). And frankly I'd be willing to lay some money on the line to prove it.
Highly highly doubt this. Im willing to bet my .1 RS on N2 is faster than a GT3 (and not far from a .2 RS on many tracks). And frankly I'd be willing to lay some money on the line to prove it.
03-11-2018, 10:21 AM
#59
Nordschleife Master
The 20% was obviously illustractive as it was the 100 5%, I don't have the time to measure everything out.
My point is, porsche made a lot of little improvements all around, from decrasing cabin weight, reducing body panel weight, decreasing a lot of drag, adding more downforce, increasing lower pressure zones, upgrades to the lsd, pdk, power, engine internals friction, more power, suspension, both on spring rates and damper, solid mounts everywhere, less unsprung weight.
All of these put together make the old rs slower, unless you do the same exact mods, but then you are fkd by warranty, what makes these cars so atractive.
You can get away with a pair of headers maybe coilovers and you might have to take both out before you go for a warranty claim. If you do all of those mods and you have enough to not care about warranty, why don't just go to a 2 rs? Better base.
Then on your mods. Bilstein clubsport are so far from being even worthy of mention, if you are spending the money just go tractive.
Lars Kers already drove a couple of manthey cars. If he was the one doing the manthey lap, sub 7:05 wouldn't be farfetched tho.
Manthey car has the aero upgrades that work, kw competion, magnesium wheels (the same exact ones from the wp package), solid bushes (i think) and trofeo r (the new track tire from Porsche will not be (much) faster than trofeo r, maybe more durable). People with this pack on the ring are saving around more than 15 seconds from the standard car with alignment.
In the end, the new car with the right spec, a set dundon headers and a set of tractive/kw race coilovers will be far superior/faster than a 1.RS with the same or even more mods.
My point is, porsche made a lot of little improvements all around, from decrasing cabin weight, reducing body panel weight, decreasing a lot of drag, adding more downforce, increasing lower pressure zones, upgrades to the lsd, pdk, power, engine internals friction, more power, suspension, both on spring rates and damper, solid mounts everywhere, less unsprung weight.
All of these put together make the old rs slower, unless you do the same exact mods, but then you are fkd by warranty, what makes these cars so atractive.
You can get away with a pair of headers maybe coilovers and you might have to take both out before you go for a warranty claim. If you do all of those mods and you have enough to not care about warranty, why don't just go to a 2 rs? Better base.
Then on your mods. Bilstein clubsport are so far from being even worthy of mention, if you are spending the money just go tractive.
Lars Kers already drove a couple of manthey cars. If he was the one doing the manthey lap, sub 7:05 wouldn't be farfetched tho.
Manthey car has the aero upgrades that work, kw competion, magnesium wheels (the same exact ones from the wp package), solid bushes (i think) and trofeo r (the new track tire from Porsche will not be (much) faster than trofeo r, maybe more durable). People with this pack on the ring are saving around more than 15 seconds from the standard car with alignment.
In the end, the new car with the right spec, a set dundon headers and a set of tractive/kw race coilovers will be far superior/faster than a 1.RS with the same or even more mods.
Weight the same.
As someone said, main difference is tires and in real world still the driver between .1 and .2.
Istill want a .2 Salmon with WP.
03-11-2018, 11:15 AM
#60
i have to say, personally I find downforce very overrated in most road cars which are heavy. Not familiar with US tracks to be fair but say at Silverstone which generally is reckoned to be a quick track, most of the fast corners minimum apex speed is going to be 90-100mph. Even at Spa, the fast corners of Eau Rouge/Pouhon/blanchimont 2 are not 200km/h corners. The aero effect at those speeds <150km/h is imo going to be pretty negligible.
The only 'fair' way to truly compare the weights between 2 cars is surely with the same spec as otherwise you're not comparing apples to apples. I typically am going to spec a car quite the same, clubsport roll cage, steel brakes, as far as I can see the .2rs for me is going to be only 6kg lighter...
Agreed the biggest difference will be in feel. Setup the same way, I am not sure I entirely agree the 3.8rs was that different to the 4.0 but that I suppose is subjective and I'm happy to defer to you as I've only had a short go in the 3.8.
Still think tyres are by far the biggest differentiator in performance of newer iterations of cars though. Just as with the gt3, a 'fair' back to back test of the old car vs new car on identical tyres I think would be awfully informative. the chances of the likes of SportAuto doing this are zero though sadly.
3 seconds on a 90 second track purely on chassis changes (ex tyre)? Are you serious?
Edit. I might be overstating the gains, I will check spa times, laguna and algarve. Until results are out, I think this kind of talk is redundant.
I do believe gains in time will be bigger than anyone is imagining, might be totally wrong