Key secret why 991.2 GT3 RS will post some great lap times
03-10-2018, 10:25 AM
#31
By the way, where are the weights in the table above coming from? They seem awfully exaggerated. For example, the old front lift was 7kg, and the new one is "almost 50% lighter", which would make it 3.5-4kg, not 10kg. Also, LED lights are lighter than PDLS, not heavier. Also, 18kg loss for WP already includes wheels (it's 13lbs or 5.5kg loss without mag wheels). Don't know about exact weights of seats, but my comfort seat is light enough to lift easily with one arm, no more than 20kg, probably 15kg, so it's impossible for the difference between buckets and comforts to be 30kg because that would mean buckets weigh nothing. So check your numbers.
03-10-2018, 10:36 AM
#32
The tires are definitely an easy way to "win" comparisons or fake progress - Corvette started it with MPSC2 tires that have no tread and last one day, then GT R (same trick MPSC2), then Huracan with "bespoke" tropheos, so I guess it's Porsche's turn to play this game. But unlike others, Porsche is making a claim that these fast tires will last as much as the more street-friendly ones. If this proves true, that would be much better than what others did, although still an exaggeration of the progress.
By the way, where are the weights in the table above coming from? They seem awfully exaggerated. For example, the old front lift was 7kg, and the new one is "almost 50% lighter", which would make it 3.5-4kg, not 10kg. Also, LED lights are lighter than PDLS, not heavier. Also, 18kg loss for WP already includes wheels (it's 13lbs or 5.5kg loss without mag wheels). Don't know about exact weights of seats, but my comfort seat is light enough to lift easily with one arm, no more than 20kg, probably 15kg, so it's impossible for the difference between buckets and comforts to be 30kg because that would mean buckets weigh nothing. So check your numbers.
By the way, where are the weights in the table above coming from? They seem awfully exaggerated. For example, the old front lift was 7kg, and the new one is "almost 50% lighter", which would make it 3.5-4kg, not 10kg. Also, LED lights are lighter than PDLS, not heavier. Also, 18kg loss for WP already includes wheels (it's 13lbs or 5.5kg loss without mag wheels). Don't know about exact weights of seats, but my comfort seat is light enough to lift easily with one arm, no more than 20kg, probably 15kg, so it's impossible for the difference between buckets and comforts to be 30kg because that would mean buckets weigh nothing. So check your numbers.
It was way more havier. Between 20-30kg easy!
03-10-2018, 10:43 AM
#33
^ This exactly.
Guys, it’s a refresh. 20 more horses w/ 0 more torque. All PAG did was put in stiffer springs and softer sways. This is like the emporer has no clothes. Manthey does far more and PAG does far less but PAGs RS is still faster? Ok, if you say so.
Who had had brake cooling issues on .1RS? I do like the NACA duct look though.
Aero looks the same to me. My eyes work fine last I checked. minor styling change. .1RS had near Cup down force already.
Body is the same. I like the .1 side vent intakes better. Likely those and front fender vents are pop in n replacements.
.2GT3 did 7:12 with less aero same power, same springs and dampers with better tires and dry track than the .1RS. The .1RS will best that time with dry track and the better tires. My guess by 5 seconds.
.2GT3RS will be just under 7. My bet.
Put headers and BBi suspension with the better tires .1RS is faster still.
yes stock for stock the new car is faster. Mainly due to tires and bump in push power.
Again 4 upgrades that increase each 20% the performance is different than 100 upgrades that increase 5%
03-10-2018, 11:06 AM
#34
When the .2 RS delivers a superior Nurburgring time, recall how disappointed AP was with the .1 RS time (poor conditions). Some even argued he was leaving room for the .2 RS (while still improving on 997 GT3 RS performance). I don’t expect AP will remind us of that “unrepresentative .1 RS time” when he announces the .2 RS time. For all the reasons mentioned, the .2 RS will be quicker than the .1RS - but not by the gap we’ll see in Nurburgring times...
03-10-2018, 11:25 AM
#35
The tires are definitely an easy way to "win" comparisons or fake progress - Corvette started it with MPSC2 tires that have no tread and last one day, then GT R (same trick MPSC2), then Huracan with "bespoke" tropheos, so I guess it's Porsche's turn to play this game. But unlike others, Porsche is making a claim that these fast tires will last as much as the more street-friendly ones. If this proves true, that would be much better than what others did, although still an exaggeration of the progress.
By the way, where are the weights in the table above coming from? They seem awfully exaggerated. For example, the old front lift was 7kg, and the new one is "almost 50% lighter", which would make it 3.5-4kg, not 10kg. Also, LED lights are lighter than PDLS, not heavier. Also, 18kg loss for WP already includes wheels (it's 13lbs or 5.5kg loss without mag wheels). Don't know about exact weights of seats, but my comfort seat is light enough to lift easily with one arm, no more than 20kg, probably 15kg, so it's impossible for the difference between buckets and comforts to be 30kg because that would mean buckets weigh nothing. So check your numbers.
By the way, where are the weights in the table above coming from? They seem awfully exaggerated. For example, the old front lift was 7kg, and the new one is "almost 50% lighter", which would make it 3.5-4kg, not 10kg. Also, LED lights are lighter than PDLS, not heavier. Also, 18kg loss for WP already includes wheels (it's 13lbs or 5.5kg loss without mag wheels). Don't know about exact weights of seats, but my comfort seat is light enough to lift easily with one arm, no more than 20kg, probably 15kg, so it's impossible for the difference between buckets and comforts to be 30kg because that would mean buckets weigh nothing. So check your numbers.
No doubt you have strong arms and no question about that your comfort "sofa" seats are the lightest ones on the market
03-10-2018, 11:56 AM
#37
so, the folding buckets are indeed lighter than the 918 seats? 4 kilos per seat... That's something I wouldn't ever imagined.
03-10-2018, 02:56 PM
#38
Nordschleife Master
Horsepower is not a 20% delta increase. It's 4% increase. As noted by AP most incresae comes from center exhaust and flash to ECU. Dundon headers, GMG headers will give you more than 20hp increase for the .1RS. Theoretically could just do a tune/flash download also for the extra ponies on the .1RS. Same basic 4.0 except for solid lifters.
Torque is a 0% increase.
New stiffer front and rear springs by a larger percentage yes. But stiffer is not always better depending on circuit. Advnatage at the Ring since relatively smooth and fast. Getting the same stiffer springs, softer sways and tweeked valving for dampers won't be hard for the .1RS. Would opt for the BBi suspension kit as it comes with improved control arms with rose joints.
Aero. About the same.
Tires. .2GT3RS much better tires. Easily changed for .1RS.
Weight about the same.
Is the .2GT3RS faster then the .1RS stock for stock? Sure. No argument. It's an incremental improvement. As someone mentioned AP will have selective memory about the poor weather conditions for the previous .1RS Ring time.
I'm not saying the .2GT3RS doesn't advance the ball on overall track performance. It does. Incrementally.
I love the new .2GT3RS. Hoping to get one. But it's not leaps and bounds faster. It is faster but incrementally. Give it another 20 hp and reposition the lump to the RSR position now we are talking another ball game.
Until then its the usual PAG evolution on refresh.
Resale of course would be affected with track mods but if your heavily tracking your RS your taking a beating on resale anyway and likely don't care about resale otherwise you wouldn't be modding it or tracking it alot. Non issue in my mind if that's what your using the car for.
03-10-2018, 03:26 PM
#39
I think Lars Kern or Randy Pobst needs to drive the .1 RS (with LWBS, no front lift) with the new cup2 tires, BBS magnesium wheels and Bilstein cup shocks and a similarly optioned .2 RS and we will know. That would end all speculation. I hate to spend $45K more on the .2 RS and give another $50K-$100K ADM for it without a head to head comparison. Then two amateurs with similar (to each other) skill sets need to drive the two cars as well and see if there is any difference. We all would like to see what Lars or Randy can do with these cars but we forget that after we purchase the car it is us who are going to be driving the car of choice and not Randy or Lars. So technically speaking the lap times and resulting purchases are not really going to show up on our lap speeds. The fact that we are all discussing such minor elements shows that there is not that big a difference between the two.
03-10-2018, 03:33 PM
#40
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9k rpm is 9k rpm 
03-10-2018, 03:47 PM
#41
Nordschleife Master
No denying that, however, the main difference will be who is in the driver seat.
I'm willing to bet Randy Pobst will set a faster lap time in my Salmon Sloth lap after lap then I can set in the new .2GT3RS each and every time.
This is a game of increments. PAG incrementally improves to sell new cars and we determine if the cost of change is worth the increment.
The .1RS is unGodly fast as it is. The new one unGodlier fast.
I'm willing to bet Randy Pobst will set a faster lap time in my Salmon Sloth lap after lap then I can set in the new .2GT3RS each and every time.
This is a game of increments. PAG incrementally improves to sell new cars and we determine if the cost of change is worth the increment.
The .1RS is unGodly fast as it is. The new one unGodlier fast.
03-10-2018, 03:54 PM
#42
Nordschleife Master
I think Lars Kern or Randy Pobst needs to drive the .1 RS (with LWBS, no front lift) with the new cup2 tires, BBS magnesium wheels and Bilstein cup shocks and a similarly optioned .2 RS and we will know. That would end all speculation. I hate to spend $45K more on the .2 RS and give another $50K-$100K ADM for it without a head to head comparison. Then two amateurs with similar (to each other) skill sets need to drive the two cars as well and see if there is any difference. We all would like to see what Lars or Randy can do with these cars but we forget that after we purchase the car it is us who are going to be driving the car of choice and not Randy or Lars. So technically speaking the lap times and resulting purchases are not really going to show up on our lap speeds. The fact that we are all discussing such minor elements shows that there is not that big a difference between the two.
03-10-2018, 04:16 PM
#43
No denying that, however, the main difference will be who is in the driver seat.
I'm willing to bet Randy Pobst will set a faster lap time in my Salmon Sloth lap after lap then I can set in the new .2GT3RS each and every time.
This is a game of increments. PAG incrementally improves to sell new cars and we determine if the cost of change is worth the increment.
The .1RS is unGodly fast as it is. The new one unGodlier fast.
I'm willing to bet Randy Pobst will set a faster lap time in my Salmon Sloth lap after lap then I can set in the new .2GT3RS each and every time.
This is a game of increments. PAG incrementally improves to sell new cars and we determine if the cost of change is worth the increment.
The .1RS is unGodly fast as it is. The new one unGodlier fast.
+1.
03-10-2018, 04:26 PM
#44
Rennlist Member
Call me brainwashed by Porsche marketing. When the new RS comes out, I sell my old one and buy the new one. Life is short. It's all about new experiences for me: incremental or revolutionary. If u r an RS nut, you can feel even little wiggle of difference porsche throws into the new formula and it gets my blood going; so I'll take the 991.2rs, 992.1rs, 992.2rs and on and on.
03-10-2018, 06:00 PM
#45
Relative to previous .2 versions this one appears a significantly larger improvement; I’ll bet heavily that the clock will reflect that. The very substantial suspension rework, massive absolute increase in downforce along with big weight reduction are all far more important for track work than any fractional power increase. Keep in mind that Cup cars often run less power than their street counterparts.
the suspension/rose joints really is the main change, plus as the usual little small improvements that do add up but in all honesty, if SportAuto did a back to back test of the old 991.1rs with the only change with the new tyre and the new car, I very much doubt the difference will be as significant as being made out by some.