Key secret why 991.2 GT3 RS will post some great lap times
03-09-2018, 09:57 PM
#16
The improved suspension and aero is a benefit, but here comes the key reason:
"For the first time, specially developed race track tyres are available for the new 911 GT3 RS separately. While these tyres are also road-legal, they place even more focus on maximum track performance."
Source: https://www.porsche.com/internationa...hassis/wheels/
Does this mean they are an option as they're not standard but "are available"? That would be doing it the same way as for example AMG GTR. That car comes with Michelin Cup2's, however, you can somehow opt for "track spec" Cup2's which is a more grippier tire for track use and is part of the reason why AMG GTR posted great lap times in 2017. This is not a rumour, for example Sport Auto magazine in Germany did some track tests with both set of Cup2s in the GTR, showing the special ones are quicker.
These "special" Cup2s of the AMG GTR have not been available from the car's option list, but can be somehow ordered separately from Mercedes. Maybe the reason for this silliness is the car has been approved for emissions and noise standards only with the ordinary Cup2s and no tiny deviation would be allowed due to VAG dieselgate etc. Looks like same with GT3 RS?
A bit same goes for Huracan Performante, in all the tests the car is equipped with Trofeo R's, however you cannot spec the Trofeo R's from the option list at all, even though Pirelli and Lambo itself has made press releases about the specially developed Trofeo R for the Performante: https://www.pirelli.com/global/en-ww...urgring-record
So, Sub 7 at the Ring with GT3 RS is quite certain with these special tires (also the new smoother track surface of 2018 will definitely help).
Btw. I loved for example the 996 GT3 RS, each of those cars were lightweight spec track beasts with pure RS heritage and no room for excess luxury. If you saw a GT3 RS back then at a track day you immediately knew those cars meant business with their perlon bucket seats, full cages and often with at least radio if not air/con deletes! Today I'm not entirely a fan that for the first time in the history of GT3 RS there can be a measurable performance difference depending on the spec. In my view, Porsche could leave the more luxury stuff for GT3 and Turbo models and keep RS as a hardcore brand, but sure if customers want more options it's better to provide them. Anyways, just consider the following difference, if a RS WP stripper model with the fast special tires is compared to a luxurious RS with:
- Slower tires
- no WP package +18kg
- no titanium roll cage, but normal one +12kg
- no Magnesium wheels +12kg
- no PCCB, but steel brakes +15kg
- No bucket seats, but comfort seats +30kg (btw for weight geeks, aren't the folding buckets lighter than full buckets due to no motor for height adjustment
)
- no radio and nav delete, but bose system +20kg
- no air-con delete +15kg
- front-lift added +10kg
- led lights added +5kg
+ all random small adds, reversing camera, sport chrono, light package, garage opener etc. +5kg easily
These weights are estimates, but it's approx 140 kg of difference (310 lbs!) in the total sum. Quite the difference between two GT3 RSs that look quite the same.
P.S. Not anyway hating the 991.2 GT3 RS, but considering trying to get one...
"For the first time, specially developed race track tyres are available for the new 911 GT3 RS separately. While these tyres are also road-legal, they place even more focus on maximum track performance."
Source: https://www.porsche.com/internationa...hassis/wheels/
Does this mean they are an option as they're not standard but "are available"? That would be doing it the same way as for example AMG GTR. That car comes with Michelin Cup2's, however, you can somehow opt for "track spec" Cup2's which is a more grippier tire for track use and is part of the reason why AMG GTR posted great lap times in 2017. This is not a rumour, for example Sport Auto magazine in Germany did some track tests with both set of Cup2s in the GTR, showing the special ones are quicker.
These "special" Cup2s of the AMG GTR have not been available from the car's option list, but can be somehow ordered separately from Mercedes. Maybe the reason for this silliness is the car has been approved for emissions and noise standards only with the ordinary Cup2s and no tiny deviation would be allowed due to VAG dieselgate etc. Looks like same with GT3 RS?
A bit same goes for Huracan Performante, in all the tests the car is equipped with Trofeo R's, however you cannot spec the Trofeo R's from the option list at all, even though Pirelli and Lambo itself has made press releases about the specially developed Trofeo R for the Performante: https://www.pirelli.com/global/en-ww...urgring-record
So, Sub 7 at the Ring with GT3 RS is quite certain with these special tires (also the new smoother track surface of 2018 will definitely help).
Btw. I loved for example the 996 GT3 RS, each of those cars were lightweight spec track beasts with pure RS heritage and no room for excess luxury. If you saw a GT3 RS back then at a track day you immediately knew those cars meant business with their perlon bucket seats, full cages and often with at least radio if not air/con deletes! Today I'm not entirely a fan that for the first time in the history of GT3 RS there can be a measurable performance difference depending on the spec. In my view, Porsche could leave the more luxury stuff for GT3 and Turbo models and keep RS as a hardcore brand, but sure if customers want more options it's better to provide them. Anyways, just consider the following difference, if a RS WP stripper model with the fast special tires is compared to a luxurious RS with:
- Slower tires
- no WP package +18kg
- no titanium roll cage, but normal one +12kg
- no Magnesium wheels +12kg
- no PCCB, but steel brakes +15kg
- No bucket seats, but comfort seats +30kg (btw for weight geeks, aren't the folding buckets lighter than full buckets due to no motor for height adjustment
)- no radio and nav delete, but bose system +20kg
- no air-con delete +15kg
- front-lift added +10kg
- led lights added +5kg
+ all random small adds, reversing camera, sport chrono, light package, garage opener etc. +5kg easily
These weights are estimates, but it's approx 140 kg of difference (310 lbs!) in the total sum. Quite the difference between two GT3 RSs that look quite the same.
P.S. Not anyway hating the 991.2 GT3 RS, but considering trying to get one...
03-09-2018, 10:54 PM
#17
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I wish someone will equip the .1 RS (already has light weight lithium battery and magnesium hood) with BBS magnesium wheels and new RS special Cup2's, Bilstein cup shocks and tune and do an honest comparison of Nurburing lap times with the .2 RS that is similarly equipped. The cost of upgrade on the .1 RS might be less than the cost of trading in the .1 RS and buying the .2 RS. Just a thought.
03-09-2018, 11:09 PM
#18
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Join Date: Jan 2013
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The improved suspension and aero is a benefit, but here comes the key reason:
"For the first time, specially developed race track tyres are available for the new 911 GT3 RS separately. While these tyres are also road-legal, they place even more focus on maximum track performance."
Source: https://www.porsche.com/internationa...hassis/wheels/
Does this mean they are an option as they're not standard but "are available"? That would be doing it the same way as for example AMG GTR. That car comes with Michelin Cup2's, however, you can somehow opt for "track spec" Cup2's which is a more grippier tire for track use and is part of the reason why AMG GTR posted great lap times in 2017. This is not a rumour, for example Sport Auto magazine in Germany did some track tests with both set of Cup2s in the GTR, showing the special ones are quicker.
These "special" Cup2s of the AMG GTR have not been available from the car's option list, but can be somehow ordered separately from Mercedes. Maybe the reason for this silliness is the car has been approved for emissions and noise standards only with the ordinary Cup2s and no tiny deviation would be allowed due to VAG dieselgate etc. Looks like same with GT3 RS?
A bit same goes for Huracan Performante, in all the tests the car is equipped with Trofeo R's, however you cannot spec the Trofeo R's from the option list at all, even though Pirelli and Lambo itself has made press releases about the specially developed Trofeo R for the Performante: https://www.pirelli.com/global/en-ww...urgring-record
So, Sub 7 at the Ring with GT3 RS is quite certain with these special tires (also the new smoother track surface of 2018 will definitely help).
Btw. I loved for example the 996 GT3 RS, each of those cars were lightweight spec track beasts with pure RS heritage and no room for excess luxury. If you saw a GT3 RS back then at a track day you immediately knew those cars meant business with their perlon bucket seats, full cages and often with at least radio if not air/con deletes! Today I'm not entirely a fan that for the first time in the history of GT3 RS there can be a measurable performance difference depending on the spec. In my view, Porsche could leave the more luxury stuff for GT3 and Turbo models and keep RS as a hardcore brand, but sure if customers want more options it's better to provide them. Anyways, just consider the following difference, if a RS WP stripper model with the fast special tires is compared to a luxurious RS with:
- Slower tires
- no WP package +18kg
- no titanium roll cage, but normal one +12kg
- no Magnesium wheels +12kg
- no PCCB, but steel brakes +15kg
- No bucket seats, but comfort seats +30kg (btw for weight geeks, aren't the folding buckets lighter than full buckets due to no motor for height adjustment)
- no radio and nav delete, but bose system +20kg
- no air-con delete +15kg
- front-lift added +10kg
- led lights added +5kg
+ all random small adds, reversing camera, sport chrono, light package, garage opener etc. +5kg easily
These weights are estimates, but it's approx 140 kg of difference (310 lbs!) in the total sum. Quite the difference between two GT3 RSs that look quite the same.
P.S. Not anyway hating the 991.2 GT3 RS, but considering trying to get one...
"For the first time, specially developed race track tyres are available for the new 911 GT3 RS separately. While these tyres are also road-legal, they place even more focus on maximum track performance."
Source: https://www.porsche.com/internationa...hassis/wheels/
Does this mean they are an option as they're not standard but "are available"? That would be doing it the same way as for example AMG GTR. That car comes with Michelin Cup2's, however, you can somehow opt for "track spec" Cup2's which is a more grippier tire for track use and is part of the reason why AMG GTR posted great lap times in 2017. This is not a rumour, for example Sport Auto magazine in Germany did some track tests with both set of Cup2s in the GTR, showing the special ones are quicker.
These "special" Cup2s of the AMG GTR have not been available from the car's option list, but can be somehow ordered separately from Mercedes. Maybe the reason for this silliness is the car has been approved for emissions and noise standards only with the ordinary Cup2s and no tiny deviation would be allowed due to VAG dieselgate etc. Looks like same with GT3 RS?
A bit same goes for Huracan Performante, in all the tests the car is equipped with Trofeo R's, however you cannot spec the Trofeo R's from the option list at all, even though Pirelli and Lambo itself has made press releases about the specially developed Trofeo R for the Performante: https://www.pirelli.com/global/en-ww...urgring-record
So, Sub 7 at the Ring with GT3 RS is quite certain with these special tires (also the new smoother track surface of 2018 will definitely help).
Btw. I loved for example the 996 GT3 RS, each of those cars were lightweight spec track beasts with pure RS heritage and no room for excess luxury. If you saw a GT3 RS back then at a track day you immediately knew those cars meant business with their perlon bucket seats, full cages and often with at least radio if not air/con deletes! Today I'm not entirely a fan that for the first time in the history of GT3 RS there can be a measurable performance difference depending on the spec. In my view, Porsche could leave the more luxury stuff for GT3 and Turbo models and keep RS as a hardcore brand, but sure if customers want more options it's better to provide them. Anyways, just consider the following difference, if a RS WP stripper model with the fast special tires is compared to a luxurious RS with:
- Slower tires
- no WP package +18kg
- no titanium roll cage, but normal one +12kg
- no Magnesium wheels +12kg
- no PCCB, but steel brakes +15kg
- No bucket seats, but comfort seats +30kg (btw for weight geeks, aren't the folding buckets lighter than full buckets due to no motor for height adjustment
)- no radio and nav delete, but bose system +20kg
- no air-con delete +15kg
- front-lift added +10kg
- led lights added +5kg
+ all random small adds, reversing camera, sport chrono, light package, garage opener etc. +5kg easily
These weights are estimates, but it's approx 140 kg of difference (310 lbs!) in the total sum. Quite the difference between two GT3 RSs that look quite the same.
P.S. Not anyway hating the 991.2 GT3 RS, but considering trying to get one...
By the way, where are the weights in the table above coming from? They seem awfully exaggerated. For example, the old front lift was 7kg, and the new one is "almost 50% lighter", which would make it 3.5-4kg, not 10kg. Also, LED lights are lighter than PDLS, not heavier. Also, 18kg loss for WP already includes wheels (it's 13lbs or 5.5kg loss without mag wheels). Don't know about exact weights of seats, but my comfort seat is light enough to lift easily with one arm, no more than 20kg, probably 15kg, so it's impossible for the difference between buckets and comforts to be 30kg because that would mean buckets weigh nothing. So check your numbers.
03-09-2018, 11:56 PM
#19
Nordschleife Master
I wish someone will equip the .1 RS (already has light weight lithium battery and magnesium hood) with BBS magnesium wheels and new RS special Cup2's, Bilstein cup shocks and tune and do an honest comparison of Nurburing lap times with the .2 RS that is similarly equipped. The cost of upgrade on the .1 RS might be less than the cost of trading in the .1 RS and buying the .2 RS. Just a thought.
Arsthetics are similar and not worth any change in my book but add the WP that is the main draw for me.
03-10-2018, 12:29 AM
#20
Its clear to me the improvements are incremental at best. Main improvement is the 20 extra hp and new mpsc. Put headers, BBi suspension package and new mpsc tires on .1RS it is easily faster than .2.
Arsthetics are similar and not worth any change in my book but add the WP that is the main draw for me.
03-10-2018, 01:39 AM
#21
03-10-2018, 01:55 AM
#22
From a street-car point of view I can see how these changes would be underwhelming. From a track use perspective the changes look anything but inceremental to me, and attempting to match them with a .1 would be largely cost-prohibitive. Power’s cheap. Proper suspension and aero much less so, and that’s far rarer in the aftermarket than most appreciate.
03-10-2018, 02:09 AM
#23
Rennlist Member
Agree about the importance of suspension improvements, aero and tires but I don't see a significant reduction in weight compared to the .1 apart from mg wheels.)
03-10-2018, 08:01 AM
#25
Willing to bet the new tires make up 75% of the difference on most tracks. Also at a track like Sebring the softer sprung RS.1 may have advantages in some corners like 18.
03-10-2018, 08:31 AM
#26
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Raghu
I wish someone will equip the .1 RS (already has light weight lithium battery and magnesium hood) with BBS magnesium wheels and new RS special Cup2's, Bilstein cup shocks and tune and do an honest comparison of Nurburing lap times with the .2 RS that is similarly equipped. The cost of upgrade on the .1 RS might be less than the cost of trading in the .1 RS and buying the .2 RS. Just a thought.
03-10-2018, 09:27 AM
#27
Unlikely because after those mods are done to the .1rs, the car is worth less. And the .2rs will always cary that upgrade premium going forward. It is a difference of capital outlay but the spread in the two cars will be there for the foreseeable future. U aren't losing that money (unless u r paying crazy adm).
In short, it may be best to get a .1 RS like you want (there are many on the market) or keep the one you already have and drive it a lot and have fun and buy a vacation condo, a MT .2 GT3 or a plane with the money you save and enjoy that also! I am, by no means, giving out lifestyle or financial advice nor am I suggesting that the .2 RS is not a capable track machine. I am simply saying that the increment in gains achieved through the purchase of a .2 RS (sum of the parts, as some have suggested) may be achieved with a .1 RS (and the sum of its parts) without breaking the bank. I agree with some who have speculated that there may very well be an uptick in the market value of the .1 RS, thanks to the .2 RS.
03-10-2018, 09:28 AM
#28
PS: The magnesium wheels are not going to be available this year on the .2 RS. They are available through BBS for the .1 RS.
03-10-2018, 09:52 AM
#29
Nordschleife Master
Guys, it’s a refresh. 20 more horses w/ 0 more torque. All PAG did was put in stiffer springs and softer sways. This is like the emporer has no clothes. Manthey does far more and PAG does far less but PAGs RS is still faster? Ok, if you say so.
Who had had brake cooling issues on .1RS? I do like the NACA duct look though.
Aero looks the same to me. My eyes work fine last I checked. minor styling change. .1RS had near Cup down force already.
Body is the same. I like the .1 side vent intakes better. Likely those and front fender vents are pop in n replacements.
.2GT3 did 7:12 with less aero same power, same springs and dampers with better tires and dry track than the .1RS. The .1RS will best that time with dry track and the better tires. My guess by 5 seconds.
.2GT3RS will be just under 7. My bet.
Put headers and BBi suspension with the better tires .1RS is faster still.
yes stock for stock the new car is faster. Mainly due to tires and bump in push power.
