600HP possible out of the 4.0 GT3/RS engine, who is the first to unleash it?
03-08-2018, 12:40 PM
#16
Racer
I agree, I used to build the Hart 1.5T turbo engines a long, long time ago. They matched the 1,000 hp of the BMW's at the time but this was only for qualifying laps and they were shot after 3-4 laps. Draining the sump showed 2-3 litres of petrol, needing that amount of fuel dumped though to cool the turbo's . But they did make 900 +hp from a 1.5 litre Turbo ! (just not for very long)
03-08-2018, 12:51 PM
#17
Drifting
Here's how you can get 600+ bhp out of a naturally aspirated flat six:
Buy (or start) a race team competing in WEC or ELMS
Call Porsche Motorsport and beg for a 911 RSR to campaign as a privateer (they were well oversubscribed this year)
The car is 991K euros plus spares and delivery; GTE/GTLM crate engines (across the various manufacturers) are reputed to cost ~$250K
It would take an extraordinarily credulous person to believe that any tuner, anywhere could liberate 80 marginal horsepower above the quoted figures for the 991.2 GT3 RS
Buy (or start) a race team competing in WEC or ELMS
Call Porsche Motorsport and beg for a 911 RSR to campaign as a privateer (they were well oversubscribed this year)
The car is 991K euros plus spares and delivery; GTE/GTLM crate engines (across the various manufacturers) are reputed to cost ~$250K
It would take an extraordinarily credulous person to believe that any tuner, anywhere could liberate 80 marginal horsepower above the quoted figures for the 991.2 GT3 RS
03-08-2018, 01:02 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
Even though it won't reach 600hp, but with headers, exhaust, intake, ECU tune will at least give you 40-50hp. You will end up with 560-570hp which is a lot in my book already.
03-08-2018, 01:33 PM
#19
According to some here, the Dundon headers alone are good for 150hp. 
03-08-2018, 01:48 PM
#20
03-08-2018, 01:52 PM
#21
Race Director
03-08-2018, 01:56 PM
#22
I have yes sorry I meant to say another 25 hp over 125 so 150 hp ... I used to be quite good at maths !
03-08-2018, 01:58 PM
#23
1st Gear
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Hi,
I strongly doubt that it is possible with the MA1.76 GT3RS 4.0 engine to get 570-600. What is now available for adjustment in the ECU, yet does not allow to get more, even for sports fuel RON100.
Here's what happened on one of our cars, the Acrapovich exhaust with catalysts 100cpi, fuel Ron100 +
Before the racing season, we plan to test different versions of fuel VP, E10, etc. But there are doubts that there will be a big increase in power.
I strongly doubt that it is possible with the MA1.76 GT3RS 4.0 engine to get 570-600. What is now available for adjustment in the ECU, yet does not allow to get more, even for sports fuel RON100.
Here's what happened on one of our cars, the Acrapovich exhaust with catalysts 100cpi, fuel Ron100 +
Before the racing season, we plan to test different versions of fuel VP, E10, etc. But there are doubts that there will be a big increase in power.
03-08-2018, 02:27 PM
#24
The 9A1 is more difficult to tune but it has numerous advantages, so there’s no reason in my mind that 600 hp wouldn’t be achievable. However sacrificing both emmisions and some longevity may well be required, and quite likely drivability too. High cost is simply a given.
Remember that those 600+ hp unrestricted 9A1 RSR engines have 30 hour rebuild schedules, idle at 2k+ rpm, have poor low rpm drivability and no emissions requirements. They also have rules limited displacements. Give the right tuner a pile of money and they’ll get you something similar (or perhaps even better with a displacement bump), but those sacrifices are not ones most are willing to make.
03-08-2018, 03:12 PM
#25
Hi,
I strongly doubt that it is possible with the MA1.76 GT3RS 4.0 engine to get 570-600. What is now available for adjustment in the ECU, yet does not allow to get more, even for sports fuel RON100.
Here's what happened on one of our cars, the Acrapovich exhaust with catalysts 100cpi, fuel Ron100 +
https://instagram.com/p/BgCP7Ihl-2Y/
Before the racing season, we plan to test different versions of fuel VP, E10, etc. But there are doubts that there will be a big increase in power.
I strongly doubt that it is possible with the MA1.76 GT3RS 4.0 engine to get 570-600. What is now available for adjustment in the ECU, yet does not allow to get more, even for sports fuel RON100.
Here's what happened on one of our cars, the Acrapovich exhaust with catalysts 100cpi, fuel Ron100 +
https://instagram.com/p/BgCP7Ihl-2Y/
Before the racing season, we plan to test different versions of fuel VP, E10, etc. But there are doubts that there will be a big increase in power.
Wow, 530whp on a superflow is slightly over 600HP. 👍🏻 Never seen a dyno that high on a 4.0 engine. Do you think the new engine have more potential?
I can’t read russian, is that wheel HP or Estimated Engine HP?
03-08-2018, 03:19 PM
#26
Three Wheelin'
03-08-2018, 03:30 PM
#27
Drifting
RSR and Cup cars dont rev beyond 9k.
Based on AP statement, he is saying same engine unlocked. He didn’t speak about cams or heads change. RS and GT3 differences are only tune, slightly better catback and forced ram air from side openings which will be negated with the extra downforce anyways.
So im assuming if you put full race dundon on both GT3 and 3RS, the gains with GT3 will be more and eventually the difference will be the tune only gains. Not sure what the tune differences are, maybe slightly more timing, would be interesting to find out.
Not as a rule but it happens. The basic guideline with our Cups is below 9,500 is nothing to worry about. 9,500-10,000 you need to start investigating and above 10,000 the motor needs to be opened up. That might have changed slightly with 991.2 Cup motor but I doubt by much if it did.
I cant see Porsche going much above 9k redline for a street car that they have to back with full warranty.
RSR redlines higher still
I don’t agree- if you’re willing to spend the money and give up on longevity/ durability/ emmisions then it’s achievable. Tuners are making 540+ legit, emissions legal hp with the Metzger, however it takes bumping displacement and other serious internals changes. Similarly for the Mezgar based Cup cars serious power upgrades are achievable with the right builds- up through unrestricted RSR power levels, so 600+.
The 9A1 is more difficult to tune but it has numerous advantages, so there’s no reason in my mind that 600 hp wouldn’t be achievable. However sacrificing both emmisions and some longevity may well be required, and quite likely drivability too. High cost is simply a given.
Remember that those 600+ hp unrestricted 9A1 RSR engines have 30 hour rebuild schedules, idle at 2k+ rpm, have poor low rpm drivability and no emissions requirements. They also have rules limited displacements. Give the right tuner a pile of money and they’ll get you something similar (or perhaps even better with a displacement bump), but those sacrifices are not ones most are willing to make.
I implied (or intended to imply) that the sacrifices (financial of course, but also other strictures) such extreme development would entail are not commercially viable for a tuning business ... so what's the point in asking which tuner will magically liberate all the power that Porsche left on the table in a ~$200-$250K street car with a warranty?
A few more things re: race engines:
The "unrestricted" output is immaterial; they all run with a restrictor (and the Porsche probably makes MORE power than the Ford GT in race trim). The Porsche is said to produce 510 bhp with a sonic restrictor fitted (although no size disclosed; I assume that's baseline or Le Mans-specific FIA BOP)
The RSR is a 4.0L flat six; the displacement limitation for a naturally aspirated engine is 5.5L (Corvette), whereas the turbo limit is 4.0L
03-08-2018, 03:46 PM
#28
If these 991.2 GT3 engines are putting down 450-460whp SAE on a Dynojet, then 500-510 whp should be doable with LTH, ECU tuning, and better intake filter. That, together with weight reduction as close as possible to 3000lbs, and I'm happy
04-17-2018, 04:09 AM
#30
IMSA lists the redline for the RSR and GT3 R as 9500rpm in their BoP documents.