Chris R.

I'll take my chances of hopefully being pulled out than no other option. I've driven with you (at Tremblant) and know you're not a 120lb dude but if you just flipped and your car was on fire, I'd pull your *** out in no time! My buddy crashed his moto on the 405 in traffic a couple years ago in the second lane and believe me, when the adrenaline hits, you can do things that otherwise would not be possible. We grabbed him and pulled him off the road then got his fully loaded harley bagger and lifted it up and RAN it to safety. Later on we were like "how the hell did we do that?!"
And I don't think choosing your own safety is an option in the world of litigation we live in...
I agree that there are some bad signals out there but if it's not clear, you just don;t take it. Someone bumping the stalk sends a clear message than may not be "agreed" upon by both drivers.
Neither is perfect and both require logic from the both drivers.

TRAKCAR

But Chris, mixing turn signals with point by's work fine for all closed cockpit race cars in DE's and as soon as it rains, gets dark, even some groups in the US all the time and every where else in the world.

Those were my fitter younger slimmer years ;-)

I use the analogy of my uncle refusing to wear a seat belt because once he crashed his car in a canal and he credits not having a seat belt on to saving his life.. yes, it's scary to drown, it's scary to burn. But really what is the chance.

I think my jugular will be cut by a pice of debris before my car is engulfed in flames.

It just depends on the crash but most crashes involve lots of **** flying around and much rarer it involves fire.

But DE drivers losing concentration and focus due to overheating in a fire suit is the norm. Hence, I can't wear one and it's a short and T-shirt. Windows closed you will find me buying a light suit that I would always wear!

Safety, comfort, ability to instruct because you can communicate, more driving time in the rain.. there are so many reasons I will travel further and pay more to DE.

I don't want to make anyone drive windows up, I don't want to be made to drive with the windows down either when most, by far, including car manufacturers agree it's safer with windows up.

NVRANUF

DE rules are an evolution of common sense and driver safety.
Once upon a time in a certain PCA club we were all made wear long sleeve cotton shirts in 30+C (+95F) humid weather.... in the name of safety.
Hyperthermic driver issues were secondary to a skewed perception of safety.
Times change.

Cormid

I have seen more mistakes with usage of indicators than arm out the window. Some drivers indicate left then move left. Some indicate left and move right. Some indicate left and don't move. Different clubs use indicators differently too. I see less confusion using the finger (unless it's pointed straight up...)

TRAKCAR

^^ Its opposite for me, half assed point by's are confusing. A turn signal is always the same.
Besides, it works perfectly fine in the rest of the world and its an accepted form of point by's in the dark and then it works fine as well.

hf1

Those are not mistakes -- just different rules for different organizations. If indicators were more widely used in the USA, then the rules would likely converge to "indicate left = leave passing room on right" like it is in the rest of the world.

BK77

Windows up and 2 hands on the wheel at all times is the safest way to drive on a track or street. Not only is it safer for the driver but its also safer for the other drivers on the track. I think during DE's the windows can be up or down, but only use signal to pass, no point by's.

Cormid

I understand that different clubs have different regulations. I've also seen drivers get flustered as #%EUR£ when a winged car rapidly closes the distance on them. Then all regulations and common sense goes out the window... (Pun intended) the wrong indicator goes on or the wrong movement occurs.

Hand out the window is less than ideal, but I haven't seen a hand come out the window pointing left followed by that same car moving left.

hf1

The passed car shouldn't be moving anywhere, just stay on the line. When someone gets flustered their first reflex would be to turn on the left indicator if they intend to stay to the left -- just like on the street. If someone's getting flustered with both hands on the wheel, he'd be much more flustered with his one arm waving outside the car while trying to control the car with the other. If someone gets flustered too often or too easily then maybe he's running in the wrong run group, the wrong club, or the wrong sport, so may be time to re-consider.