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GT3 Touring Incoming - Back Seats Retrofit possible?

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Old 02-13-2018, 01:31 PM
  #1
Darren911
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Question GT3 Touring Incoming - Back Seats Retrofit possible?

Want to be able to take the kids for rides -- safely. Does anyone know what would be involved in retrofitting back seats from the 911 Carrera?

Braces, brackets, belts, seats etc?

Thanks all!!
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Old 02-13-2018, 01:36 PM
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redmonkey928
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This has been discussed numerous times, should be able to find the threads within this sub forum.

IIRC - I believe the answer is no for various reasons.
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Old 02-13-2018, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Darren911 View Post
Want to be able to take the kids for rides -- safely. Does anyone know what would be involved in retrofitting back seats from the 911 Carrera?

Braces, brackets, belts, seats etc?

Thanks all!!
Hi Darren, i've read through all the other posts on this topic and basically the issues are 1) the mounting points dont exist and 2) it may have serious implications with your insurance and/or road legality

My current thought process is that if i feel I cant live without it, I will weld a child seat base directly to the chassis rather than try to fit Carrera seats back there - but its very unlikely i will due to the above.

Hope this helps!
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Old 02-13-2018, 09:41 PM
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..further, if louder then the earlier gen, you will need earmuffs for kids in the back. Maybe just consider a bolster cushion for the front and take for one on one drives ? Maybe safer as well, least you have airbags, proper seat belt etc.

But per above posts (and the previous threads), the retro option is fraught with issues and consequences. Accident - > No insurance - > no consequential loss on the other party to cover a child needing extended care...etc as one example.
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Old 02-13-2018, 10:26 PM
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Yes the biggest hesitation would be that the car is a 2 seater according to the letter of the law (crash/safety tests on the GT3) so an accident with a rear seat passenger would give any insurance company a huge opportunity to challenge any claims. If you are ok telling your insurance company what you are doing (as you are technically supposed to do for any modifications) then you could try that route, just seems risky in the US where they look for any reason to avoid paying out.

In several (many?) states you are fine to put a booster seat in the front seat *if* the car does not have rear seats. If you have just one kid this could be a benefit, since otherwise they have to be in the back. A booster seat and the weight sensor should keep the passenger airbag from being activated.
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Old 02-14-2018, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Oldmxnut View Post
..further, if louder then the earlier gen, you will need earmuffs for kids in the back. Maybe just consider a bolster cushion for the front and take for one on one drives ? Maybe safer as well, least you have airbags, proper seat belt etc.

But per above posts (and the previous threads), the retro option is fraught with issues and consequences. Accident - > No insurance - > no consequential loss on the other party to cover a child needing extended care...etc as one example.
Insurance in the US is not like Europe/Aust. Hit a pickup with people in the bed in the back, you are still on the hook (complicated but this is basically the answer).

I have zero doubt that it can be done safely. The devil will be in the details (like what the mounts look like and whether you need to weld reinforcements under the body). I have taken apart numerous cars and the seat belt mounts vary greatly, but it is not rocket science compared to what people do to cars.
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Old 02-14-2018, 12:45 AM
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I have looked into this before and agree with the others. It can be done safely, but too many insurance issues in the US. Best call is to get a 991 turbo or GTS. If u have to get a GT3 (which I realized I did), get another fun car to haul the kids
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Old 02-14-2018, 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by evilfij View Post


Insurance in the US is not like Europe/Aust. Hit a pickup with people in the bed in the back, you are still on the hook (complicated but this is basically the answer).

I have zero doubt that it can be done safely. The devil will be in the details (like what the mounts look like and whether you need to weld reinforcements under the body). I have taken apart numerous cars and the seat belt mounts vary greatly, but it is not rocket science compared to what people do to cars.
Yes agree on fact there are smart enough people around to do the install properly (may even be better then genuine) and the fact insurance and claims / defense is a complex art form being influenced by law and commercial realities in different jurisdictions. But I don't think any of us could say for sure what would happen. And obviously we don't want to live in a risk free bubble either, but just in my mind its one of those really easy targets if anything ever went wrong and is it really worth it at the end of the day?

So I think its really a personal choice, what the OP is comfortable with and how much effort he wants to go to to get it done properly, get an engineering certification and noted insurance cover for the mod etc .
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Old 02-14-2018, 01:53 AM
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What insurance claim do you think you will have if you are in an accident with your own kid in the back? That you may not fully recover against another driver for injury to the child? An unisured/underinsured motorist claim on your own policy that won’t pay out? That your child will sue you when he/she turns 18? I suppose if you are cautious you probably should not take someone else’s kid back there (even that is debatable), but what claim are you worried about with your own kid? Keep in mind you are driving around where the vast majority of people are underinsured if they hit you in a GT3 from a property damage standpoint let alone injury and are judgment proof.

And this is even assuming that there could be a showing of contributory negligence in the seat install (seems unlikely that the seat/seat belt would fail).

And no such thing as an engineering certificate in the US. That’s an Aust/UK thing.

Back on topic, does anyone have pictures of the back of a 991 non-GT with the interior removed to see what the brackets look like?
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Old 02-14-2018, 02:00 AM
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Also from what I gather the key to happiness in life is a Golf R manual 4-door paired with a GT3. It might actually be cheaper to pick up a used R than go down the path of seat retrofit, especially if you consider resale into it. I think having back seats that are non-official would probably hurt more than help in general--I mean you can get someone to do a "better than factory" job if you are having it done, but if you bought it used, would you trust the previous owner had them done to that level?
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:23 AM
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Actually didn't know that about the US not having certification standards etc. Out of interest how do you rely on something being to a certain standard? I know you guys love your modded vehicles but do you just rely on fact the person doing the mod knows what he doing ?
I know here you would potentially be at risk of being criminally negligent if the modification wasn't certified (i.e. legally change a two seater car to a four seater car) where there was an accident leading to injury or death. So forget being sued, we are talking jail time. (note recent case of a truck driver with a modified trailer now doing time) Further no insurance company here would back you against a grieving ex-wife/mother if such a significant modification was discovered and not noted as insured. They love their modification is void clauses.. along with rising water isn't a flood.. but thats another story.

ps always good to have a debate about something other then PTS and future Porsche values.
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Old 02-14-2018, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by evilfij View Post
What insurance claim do you think you will have if you are in an accident with your own kid in the back?
That's a joke, right?.....who do think pays for any medical/ rehabilitation bills if your child is injured in your own vehicle for an at fault accident?.....your insurance...and you can bet they would absolutely deny a claim if someone was sitting in the "back seat" of a car listed on the policy as a 2 seater.....
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Old 02-14-2018, 11:15 AM
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There are limited regulations related to safety standards for car modifications in the US. States have things like maximum bumper or light heights and things like levels of tint that are legal and most (not all) states have safety inspections which check for things like you have seat belts, 2mm minimum tread on tires, and brakes that work (standards are usually low), but if you wanted to, for example, graft your GT3 body onto a lifted 1980s truck frame in your garage, no one is going to stop you.

Frankly, if you saw what rolls down the road legally in the US in many cases you would be appalled. Our European members worry about (and can’t legally) fit the correct size tire in a brand that is not certified for that model. In the US you can bolt 44in diameter tires on to a vehicle originally fitted with 29in diameter tires.
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Old 02-14-2018, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by _fletch View Post
My current thought process is that if i feel I cant live without it, I will weld a child seat base directly to the chassis
Iĺd look into this very carefully before committing as I believe it would endanger the child. The stretch of the safety belts or mounting straps used to secure the child seat are a key part of the safety package insuring that deceleration Gs are tolerable. More give is better (as long as displacement isnĺt enough to hit something).
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Old 02-14-2018, 11:25 AM
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The problem is the insurance or your responsibility to carry a child into a car without rear airbags and safety specifically designed car ???
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