991.2 GT3 manual concern
02-08-2018, 07:11 PM
#91
there would be no issues selling the car for a premium, as the next bloke can't buy one new and only used. A next owner understands that it costs what it costs.
2nd drive today,
my impressions of first gear is wrong it redlined at about 70km
2nd gear however red lines at around 120 somewhere . Which in my opinion is to much speed to appreciate the redline second during a normal fun drive city side
i have taken all your advice and driven the car at mid range in lower gear than usual and the car is a Weapon in its responsiveness. It's just high pitches engine noise to get that type of responsive feel. So as much as the car is sensitive to the foot with heaps of power on tap , it's at the rev range which is so high and loud. So almost driving around town like a prat at REVS so everyone can hear you coming from 85kms away.
i am also coming around to appreciate the compliance of the suspension as it is very easy to drive at low REVS around town like a Toyota Corolla...
its a work in progress .
however there are huge upsides with the feel of the gearbox and steering look finish and quality
2nd drive today,
my impressions of first gear is wrong it redlined at about 70km
2nd gear however red lines at around 120 somewhere . Which in my opinion is to much speed to appreciate the redline second during a normal fun drive city side
i have taken all your advice and driven the car at mid range in lower gear than usual and the car is a Weapon in its responsiveness. It's just high pitches engine noise to get that type of responsive feel. So as much as the car is sensitive to the foot with heaps of power on tap , it's at the rev range which is so high and loud. So almost driving around town like a prat at REVS so everyone can hear you coming from 85kms away.
i am also coming around to appreciate the compliance of the suspension as it is very easy to drive at low REVS around town like a Toyota Corolla...
its a work in progress .
however there are huge upsides with the feel of the gearbox and steering look finish and quality 
02-08-2018, 07:26 PM
#92
Three Wheelin'
I wonder where people are driving their cars, where they can't wring their car's neck a bit on a fairly regular basis. I'm not saying racetrack levels of constant aggression, but geez I don't find it very hard to find times and places to drive my cars relatively hard on the street.
02-08-2018, 07:26 PM
#93
so what does that say about the touring
?
Its built for the road, same car except for wing .
DId i do my research? All I heard was amazing reviews faultless car, incredible, best car 2017.
I have seen all the video's
Look i I am not saying it's not good, just not quite what I expected .
To get it to rev out you are going to fast for street, gearing is too tall imho
The general response is amazing .... majority of you other than my Aussie stablemate are taking this thread way too personally.
i have paid $385 000.00 AU dollars for this car which is eqivulant to 300k US.
Though I am happy to offer some informed independent self afflicting criticism, I am more finacially committed to a GT3 than anyone else in the world due to our taxes etc. So all I am suggesting is the car has little low end torque and the gears are too tall. As oximut said , I would be more than happy to give away 80km top end speed if it meant I could row through the gears and really use the engine and gearbox to maximise enjoyment on the street .
imagine change a diff ratio and bang through
The gear 1st 2nd 3rd to red line as you only doing 135kmh .. that would be amazing.
I have given pros and cons only relying on my experience as an owner of many hundreds of cars -as I am a high end car dealer.
its almost like I have offended and exposed a conspiracy to keep the myth alive that these cars are the best of all time ever. And can't be faulted
now I expose this you are all coming out and saying that's what they are like and I chose he wrong car and it's normal for the car.
Well I can assure you I had not seen a review that reflected this at all anywhere .
All I am saying is the car has surprised me so basically the car is not as I expected .
Maybe a GTR benz would have been a better choice to drive on the roads . I am not sure .
Surely the GT3 must remind most of you of the old Mazda Capella I assume its very much like a Mazda rotary engine works at high REVS only.. seems I should have been made aware of this information before purchasing.
My main issue is it has tall gearing which means you can drive in first gear all day no need for the other 5 gears in our country as speed limit is 110 kmph
It's all good I will see what the next few kms have install and I'll hopefully change my driving style and expectiaons and love the car. I have waited 21/2 years for this thing and I just thought it would be different .
However no regrets
cause when I walk in the garage or sit in the car, I am emotionally attached to it. it is stunning in appearance and the finish is second to none , I love my choices of colour options and my chosen interior options just as much as the exterior . I enjoy looking at it, it is my garage art at the moment. So I will make an adjustment within my expectations and drive it as it has been built to be driven and see.
( can't heop
myself though as I write this I am thinking why such a tall first and 2nd Gear hahaa)
anyway iwill get over it and make the adjustment
karter34 (OP) is absolutely spot on with his observation! For the majority of MT .2 GT3 owners who don't track their cars and drive it mostly on the street, 95% of their satisfaction will come from the FEELING of being in a GT3 and rowing gears while only 5% of their satisfaction will come from actually wringing out the car's potential. On the street, in most driving situations, the GT3 MT is just 'meh' (who actually keeps their revs above 5K on the street for any length of time). How do I know, I took a ride in a buddy's MT .2 GT3 and he complained about the EXACT SAME THING (but he said he wouldn't post about it on Rennlist for fear of arousing the "Rennlist tribe" - his words -, who have placed the return of the MT in the GT3 on such a pedestal). The MT .2 GT3 needs to be opened up to be truly enjoyed and Porsche knew it. The release of the MT was just a $$$-grab for Porsche to generate buzz for the mid-cycle facelift 991 GT3, as the 25HP+/14TQ+, new aero and new tire wouldn't have been enough to get anyone interested. It was a calculated campaign to cash in on the buzz of the 911R (and along with the 10yr/120K warranty, quell the ghost of the early 991.1 GT3 engine issues). Doubt it? Look at the early lackluster feelings about the .2 GT3RS...'meh' with its 20HP+ bump and plasticky bits! 'Meh' would have been the same response the .2 GT3 would have received if the MT wasn't an option.
At the track, the MT is a joy and provides full engagement. On the street however, it is less than optimal and many are blurring the line between being happy at simply being in a MT GT3 for the sake of the MT and being happy at the driving experience it ACTUALLY provides. Frankly, the driving experience on the street is not that great, A Manual Transmission in a shorter geared and less higher revving Porsche would be 1,000x more engaging! I love all GT3s but we need to be honest about the driving experience, on the street in this car. We are not knocking the car, just being honest about one aspect of the driving experience. The overall car is a fantastic BEAST. However there is a reason Porsche isn't bringing the MT back in the RS nor likely in future GT3 models...
At the track, the MT is a joy and provides full engagement. On the street however, it is less than optimal and many are blurring the line between being happy at simply being in a MT GT3 for the sake of the MT and being happy at the driving experience it ACTUALLY provides. Frankly, the driving experience on the street is not that great, A Manual Transmission in a shorter geared and less higher revving Porsche would be 1,000x more engaging! I love all GT3s but we need to be honest about the driving experience, on the street in this car. We are not knocking the car, just being honest about one aspect of the driving experience. The overall car is a fantastic BEAST. However there is a reason Porsche isn't bringing the MT back in the RS nor likely in future GT3 models...
May I ask how the power delivery and driving experience of 991.2 GT3 compares to say a 458? The 458 had plenty of oumph on the street and the whale of the engine is intoxicating. Best car I have enjoyed on the street.
I am slightly worried because I can understand the points raised. I don’t track much and have a GT2 RS arriving a couple months before the touring. I was/am very excited about rowing through the gears in the touring on the street which is disappointing if you don’t really get out of 1st gear.
Wondering if the GT2 will ruin the touring for me. Lots of power and tourque. The GT2 won’t scream though. Time will tell.
02-08-2018, 09:18 PM
#94
On a similar train of thought. I'm wondering about the experience of those who have driven a 2016 GT4 and the new GT3 on public roads rather than a track. Obviously the GT3 has more power but is the manual experience similar? Is it significantly different? Is it worth the extra coin for a GT3 Touring over a GT4 if you're not tracking it? Is one significantly more comfortable as a daily? Thoughts from those with experience.....
02-08-2018, 11:25 PM
#96
GT3 player par excellence
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i know many love manual
they like to row the gears
when i first started tracking. instrcutor said "leave it in 3rd and just drive" you will be way faster. and he is right.
rowing is unnecessarily evil
i tell my friends this, they think i am crazy but after they tried it, they get it.
unless you are on fwy or long distance cruising, assume your manual GT3 had only 3 gears. you should never need 4th.
rpm should be 5k or more all the time. you will love the roughness, noisy and instant power.
they like to row the gears
when i first started tracking. instrcutor said "leave it in 3rd and just drive" you will be way faster. and he is right.
rowing is unnecessarily evil
i tell my friends this, they think i am crazy but after they tried it, they get it.
unless you are on fwy or long distance cruising, assume your manual GT3 had only 3 gears. you should never need 4th.
rpm should be 5k or more all the time. you will love the roughness, noisy and instant power.
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michaeldorian (07-09-2021)
02-08-2018, 11:33 PM
#97
I have .2 GT3 allocation and cant wait to get it. I also currently have a .2 GTS PDK. I gotta say the .2 GTS is terrific fun - tons of torque. It will flat spin the tires anywhere you want. It was a bit quiet so I put the Soul cats on and now it sounds perfect! Porsche did a terrific job with the 3.0TT and I can see myself driving it more around town than my inbound GT3 (although I drive a Cayenne Turbo for my daily). However for fun BBQ runs to the Hill Country I'm sure that the keys that come out of the drawer will be for the GT3.
02-09-2018, 12:10 AM
#98
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On a similar train of thought. I'm wondering about the experience of those who have driven a 2016 GT4 and the new GT3 on public roads rather than a track. Obviously the GT3 has more power but is the manual experience similar? Is it significantly different? Is it worth the extra coin for a GT3 Touring over a GT4 if you're not tracking it? Is one significantly more comfortable as a daily? Thoughts from those with experience.....
The Manual experience is very similar, except it’s more fun to shift at 9k and the overall gearing favors the GT3 because of the high Redline.
If you get sofa seats, the larger interior of the 3 can be easier as a daily. With LWB’s, no real difference.
The nose lift or the 3 can be very useful as a daily (not an option on 4)
Last edited by GrantG; 02-09-2018 at 12:41 AM.
02-09-2018, 12:30 AM
#99
Rennlist Member
Congratulations. Beautiful car.
as to your comments, I really could not relate. It appears to me you have not experienced or driven other Porsche GT cars. I got my 991.2 GT3 with manual transmission last month and so far I only added 400 miles, but for the little experience I have with this car, I was blown away by the low end torque, it is much higher than my GT4, 981 Spyder, and my old 991.1 GT3. It almost feels as much torque as my 991.2 911 Targa 4S which has a turbo, and this car feels it has almost as much pull from 2000 rpm as my Targa. I have been driving around town in 4th or 5th gear and didn’t feel the need to shift to 3rd or 2nd like I normally do in my GT4 or Spyder. Even in my old 991.1 GT3 in manual mode, the car felt sluggish below 4K rpm, and had to keep it in 2nd gear around town. So relative to the older GT Porsche cars, this one feels alive at the low end. As for the tall gearing, it is not as a big issue, compared to like GT4, but in this one it does not seem to be an issue. Finally I agree with you about the ride quality. I am blown away by the comfortable ride, it is much better than 991.1 GT3, or my GT4. Also the clutch effort is so light, it is almost as light as my 991.2 Targa. This car could be easily be a daily, and a pleasant one if I may add.
again congratulations on this beautiful machine, and I honestly think it is all relevant, and had you driven these other older GT Porsche cars, you would feel differently. I suspect after you spend some more time with this black beauty, you will fall in love with it, and you would have a hard time parting away from it. Mark
as to your comments, I really could not relate. It appears to me you have not experienced or driven other Porsche GT cars. I got my 991.2 GT3 with manual transmission last month and so far I only added 400 miles, but for the little experience I have with this car, I was blown away by the low end torque, it is much higher than my GT4, 981 Spyder, and my old 991.1 GT3. It almost feels as much torque as my 991.2 911 Targa 4S which has a turbo, and this car feels it has almost as much pull from 2000 rpm as my Targa. I have been driving around town in 4th or 5th gear and didn’t feel the need to shift to 3rd or 2nd like I normally do in my GT4 or Spyder. Even in my old 991.1 GT3 in manual mode, the car felt sluggish below 4K rpm, and had to keep it in 2nd gear around town. So relative to the older GT Porsche cars, this one feels alive at the low end. As for the tall gearing, it is not as a big issue, compared to like GT4, but in this one it does not seem to be an issue. Finally I agree with you about the ride quality. I am blown away by the comfortable ride, it is much better than 991.1 GT3, or my GT4. Also the clutch effort is so light, it is almost as light as my 991.2 Targa. This car could be easily be a daily, and a pleasant one if I may add.
again congratulations on this beautiful machine, and I honestly think it is all relevant, and had you driven these other older GT Porsche cars, you would feel differently. I suspect after you spend some more time with this black beauty, you will fall in love with it, and you would have a hard time parting away from it. Mark
02-09-2018, 02:10 AM
#102
Drifting
Truth.
Same goes for the bucket seats. I discovered the faster you drive, the more comfortable they become
Yeah this is definitely true, but depends on the track. When I used to autocross, you'd just leave the car in 2nd gear and forget about shifting. I can imagine on some tracks it's mostly or all 3rd gear. But I think for this GT3, the manual is supposed to be more about having fun while driving on the street? If it were a track car, I'd definitely get PDK. The GT3 RS I drove was very fun though. The PDK is so fast. And for a minute I was actually worried about getting a manual because I went through the first 3 gears in what felt like the blink of an eye. And I was concerned I wouldn't be able to shift fast enough to keep up with how fast the engine hits redline. But I'm up for the challenge!
Same goes for the bucket seats. I discovered the faster you drive, the more comfortable they become
i know many love manual
they like to row the gears
when i first started tracking. instrcutor said "leave it in 3rd and just drive" you will be way faster. and he is right.
rowing is unnecessarily evil
i tell my friends this, they think i am crazy but after they tried it, they get it.
unless you are on fwy or long distance cruising, assume your manual GT3 had only 3 gears. you should never need 4th.
rpm should be 5k or more all the time. you will love the roughness, noisy and instant power.
they like to row the gears
when i first started tracking. instrcutor said "leave it in 3rd and just drive" you will be way faster. and he is right.
rowing is unnecessarily evil
i tell my friends this, they think i am crazy but after they tried it, they get it.
unless you are on fwy or long distance cruising, assume your manual GT3 had only 3 gears. you should never need 4th.
rpm should be 5k or more all the time. you will love the roughness, noisy and instant power.
02-09-2018, 04:53 AM
#103
Rennlist Member
^THis. I really would like OP's opinion after a track day.
Comparing my late .1 PDK GT3 to .2 Manual, there is no question, .2 is way more fun on the street. OP's butt may be used to low-end torque, but that will get old very, very quick. Yes, my 4 cylinder 2.0 Alfa Giulia feels more peppy at around 2K rpm then my GT3, but who cares? GT3's RPM should not be less than 3-4K, even when driven on the streets.
In terms of sound though? Here is a clip from a recent drive with my brother. You cannot here shhtt while we are having a full on conversation. Another factor with this car is that you can be driving it at only 60 mph, but you will have a wide grin on your face. That "no substitute" quote is about this car. No car can match it, even the venerable 458 Speciale. I admit though, I have not driven the 2011 RS 4.0 or the CGT.
PS: sorry about the crappy dynamic range on the video. Who knew, old GoPro3 walks over the new GoPro6 (crappy dynamic range and audio -- this video). Cars are one thing, but I thought newer electronics should be better.
Comparing my late .1 PDK GT3 to .2 Manual, there is no question, .2 is way more fun on the street. OP's butt may be used to low-end torque, but that will get old very, very quick. Yes, my 4 cylinder 2.0 Alfa Giulia feels more peppy at around 2K rpm then my GT3, but who cares? GT3's RPM should not be less than 3-4K, even when driven on the streets.
In terms of sound though? Here is a clip from a recent drive with my brother. You cannot here shhtt while we are having a full on conversation. Another factor with this car is that you can be driving it at only 60 mph, but you will have a wide grin on your face. That "no substitute" quote is about this car. No car can match it, even the venerable 458 Speciale. I admit though, I have not driven the 2011 RS 4.0 or the CGT.
PS: sorry about the crappy dynamic range on the video. Who knew, old GoPro3 walks over the new GoPro6 (crappy dynamic range and audio -- this video). Cars are one thing, but I thought newer electronics should be better.
Last edited by gago1101; 02-09-2018 at 05:13 AM.
02-09-2018, 07:56 AM
#105
Drove this again today and I am appreciating the around town docile driving experience with comfort suspension and lack of bottom end tourque for city driving.
I then took on some tight country roads on the way home and let the thing rev. I would suggest it works best between 5-7500 REVS, 8000 plus and the tourq drops and it just screams and it screams.
I still feel the gears are too long as to get the responsiveness I needed to be in either 1st or 2nd gear only . 3rd gear was just comfort driving with lack of tourque. 3rd gear high REVS way too quick ..
The handling is very good and the more I get use to the car I'll be able to let it flow more and trust it.
Th really good news is that it had the same effect as an ambulance ............................ people pulled over to let me pass.. the engine lets them know your coming
I then took on some tight country roads on the way home and let the thing rev. I would suggest it works best between 5-7500 REVS, 8000 plus and the tourq drops and it just screams and it screams.
I still feel the gears are too long as to get the responsiveness I needed to be in either 1st or 2nd gear only . 3rd gear was just comfort driving with lack of tourque. 3rd gear high REVS way too quick ..
The handling is very good and the more I get use to the car I'll be able to let it flow more and trust it.
Th really good news is that it had the same effect as an ambulance ............................ people pulled over to let me pass.. the engine lets them know your coming