What is your philosophy on buying and keeping cars?
02-08-2018, 12:07 AM
#31
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Keeping in mind I am an outlier in regards to how most folks deal with vehicle ownership (and all other inanimate physical possessions) ... not only because of my disposition but because of being blessed with the resources to do my thing.
First and foremost I am not a collector. In my human form, I recognize that the one thing I can never get more of is time, it is my most precious possession, and it might be taken away from me at any moment. Accordingly, I like all my vehicle experiences to be limited to the story arc beginning with desire, ownership, extracting the most I can out of the experience, and discard it as soon as it has been lived. The idea of repetition is anathema to my sensibilities and perceived as time wasted not experiencing something new, something different. Some might refer to it as vehicular ADD, others as a calamitous search for never ending physical possessions to fill the soul crushing void within. Either way ... potato tomato.
So yes, five daily drivers in four years, almost twice as many sports/fun cars, four current cars including my GTI that I drive the most because it's not about what others see, and four Porsches and one AMG either on order or about to be ordered ... all of which will likely be held for less than a year and 1k miles, not because I'm speculating or flipping or gaming my cash flow, but simply because I will want to move on to experience different things in the limited amount of time I have left. Not that I don't recognize that the Porsche market enables me to have this approach with limited losses (at least for now), and I do appreciate that, but I do the same thing with other brands that are not as blessed, it's just how I am.
And then there's the watches ...
First and foremost I am not a collector. In my human form, I recognize that the one thing I can never get more of is time, it is my most precious possession, and it might be taken away from me at any moment. Accordingly, I like all my vehicle experiences to be limited to the story arc beginning with desire, ownership, extracting the most I can out of the experience, and discard it as soon as it has been lived. The idea of repetition is anathema to my sensibilities and perceived as time wasted not experiencing something new, something different. Some might refer to it as vehicular ADD, others as a calamitous search for never ending physical possessions to fill the soul crushing void within. Either way ... potato tomato.
So yes, five daily drivers in four years, almost twice as many sports/fun cars, four current cars including my GTI that I drive the most because it's not about what others see, and four Porsches and one AMG either on order or about to be ordered ... all of which will likely be held for less than a year and 1k miles, not because I'm speculating or flipping or gaming my cash flow, but simply because I will want to move on to experience different things in the limited amount of time I have left. Not that I don't recognize that the Porsche market enables me to have this approach with limited losses (at least for now), and I do appreciate that, but I do the same thing with other brands that are not as blessed, it's just how I am.
And then there's the watches ...
and i had to quite the PP, AP, ALS, FPJ, FM crap....
i buy each car with the intent to keep forever.
if i didnt like them i would not have bought them first place
i try to drive it as much as i can (before kids, my RS sees 15000 a year; after kids, they dont fit so i can't drive the RS's)
then sometimes i notice i dont miss driving them after 4 weeks. and if that happens a few times, i will sell it.
the only car i have kept more than 3 years is my 997RS4.0. everything else b/n 1 week to 2 years. well. my 996 turbo cab lasted 3 days.. that was A HUGE hit in dep'n LMAO
02-08-2018, 12:27 AM
#32
Race Director
There are the "family cars" and there is "my car". The family cars typically get sold around the time that the warranty runs out, not so much because I'm going to have to start paying for repairs, but because needs change or something else really interesting comes out. My wife is pretty much resigned to the fact that we'll be getting a new family car every 3 or 4 years. With my car, the intent is to keep it longer term but that doesn't always work out. I owned a Boxster S for just 2 years. On the other end of the spectrum, I kept my 1984 Carrera for 15 years. When I spec'd my 2014 GT3 I ordered exactly what I wanted so there were no regrets, which is what usually causes me to start looking elsewhere. I drive the car when I want to and am not consciously trying to limit mileage, but since I don't commute and usually take another vehicle for long distance travel I don't actually pile up a lot of miles. I mean to keep this Porsche for a very long time.
Last edited by Mike in CA; 02-08-2018 at 02:25 AM.
02-08-2018, 12:38 AM
#33
Rennlist Member
great philosophy. i am the same, just with a much smaller wallet.
and i had to quite the PP, AP, ALS, FPJ, FM crap....
i buy each car with the intent to keep forever.
if i didnt like them i would not have bought them first place
i try to drive it as much as i can (before kids, my RS sees 15000 a year; after kids, they dont fit so i can't drive the RS's)
then sometimes i notice i dont miss driving them after 4 weeks. and if that happens a few times, i will sell it.
the only car i have kept more than 3 years is my 997RS4.0. everything else b/n 1 week to 2 years. well. my 996 turbo cab lasted 3 days.. that was A HUGE hit in dep'n LMAO
and i had to quite the PP, AP, ALS, FPJ, FM crap....
i buy each car with the intent to keep forever.
if i didnt like them i would not have bought them first place
i try to drive it as much as i can (before kids, my RS sees 15000 a year; after kids, they dont fit so i can't drive the RS's)
then sometimes i notice i dont miss driving them after 4 weeks. and if that happens a few times, i will sell it.
the only car i have kept more than 3 years is my 997RS4.0. everything else b/n 1 week to 2 years. well. my 996 turbo cab lasted 3 days.. that was A HUGE hit in dep'n LMAO
02-08-2018, 01:40 AM
#35
Rennlist Member
The last 7 cars I bough and sold since 2012, not including family cars, I really thought would be keepers. The most I kept any of them was 2 years, including the .1 gt3. Now, I really hope I can keep this .2 GT3 for some time. Family and friends laugh at the idea when I say I am keeping this car. 
02-08-2018, 02:12 AM
#36
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If I designate something a keeper I try to keep it away from myself to avoid piling up miles.
My NSX is a keeper. Nobody makes cars like that anymore, the Boxster Spyder is softer and the 675LT is sharper but the simplicity of the 93 NSX is really strong.
My P1 is a keeper. Driven hard, maintained to spare no expense, lots of fun.
I have sold almost everything else or would trade towards a more "ultimate" version or consolidate a few cars into the "big one".
My car world is like the NCAA bracket- 64 options and sometimes you get surprising upsets. If I had more free capital I would keep as many versions of my favorite models. I'd have 5 4.0 RS's and 10 CGTs.
My NSX is a keeper. Nobody makes cars like that anymore, the Boxster Spyder is softer and the 675LT is sharper but the simplicity of the 93 NSX is really strong.
My P1 is a keeper. Driven hard, maintained to spare no expense, lots of fun.
I have sold almost everything else or would trade towards a more "ultimate" version or consolidate a few cars into the "big one".
My car world is like the NCAA bracket- 64 options and sometimes you get surprising upsets. If I had more free capital I would keep as many versions of my favorite models. I'd have 5 4.0 RS's and 10 CGTs.
02-08-2018, 02:48 AM
#37
Interesting thread. My philosophies have evolved over the years; but after owning cars such that I have them listed in a spreadsheet, here are my enduring rules of thumb:
1. I like to buy car models with direct motorsports heritage
2. I tend to buy used as I dislike depreciation unless a “forever” car, which has been a myth so far
3. I’m an experiential car guy. Driving experience is key with emphasis on decent feedback, balanced handling and responsiveness. For instance, pet peeves are turbo lag and bump steer. Also, if I don’t drive a car regularly or if I feel bad about adding miles to it, car is gone
4. Three is the maximum number of cars I own at the same time in which I have the most enjoyment in the car hobby. I find that my enjoyment of the hobby diminishes beyond three. As someone mentioned, time is valuable and I’d rather utilize my car hobby time driving rather than cleaning, maintaining, etc. With three, I can enjoy driving two while project managing a maintenance, detail, repair or restoration.
5. Average car ownership tenure is 30 months. Longest is 9.5 years; shortest is 3 days. The last few years, my ownership tenure has been going up as I really like what I have even after driving newer or more expensive cars
6. Nowadays, I’m much more into race cars or hardcore track cars than sports cars/supercars in which limits are too high to enjoy on US streets yet are not necessarily race/track worthy. For primarily street use, I’d rather have a sporty but still practical vehicle to enjoy with friends and family on excursions. Then the other cars are race/track cars
7. A big part of the car hobby for me is the community. Even within PCA, FCA, Rennlist and Ferrarichat, there are subgroups and I’ve enjoyed great friendships with like-minded, motorsports enthusiasts.
1. I like to buy car models with direct motorsports heritage
2. I tend to buy used as I dislike depreciation unless a “forever” car, which has been a myth so far
3. I’m an experiential car guy. Driving experience is key with emphasis on decent feedback, balanced handling and responsiveness. For instance, pet peeves are turbo lag and bump steer. Also, if I don’t drive a car regularly or if I feel bad about adding miles to it, car is gone
4. Three is the maximum number of cars I own at the same time in which I have the most enjoyment in the car hobby. I find that my enjoyment of the hobby diminishes beyond three. As someone mentioned, time is valuable and I’d rather utilize my car hobby time driving rather than cleaning, maintaining, etc. With three, I can enjoy driving two while project managing a maintenance, detail, repair or restoration.
5. Average car ownership tenure is 30 months. Longest is 9.5 years; shortest is 3 days. The last few years, my ownership tenure has been going up as I really like what I have even after driving newer or more expensive cars
6. Nowadays, I’m much more into race cars or hardcore track cars than sports cars/supercars in which limits are too high to enjoy on US streets yet are not necessarily race/track worthy. For primarily street use, I’d rather have a sporty but still practical vehicle to enjoy with friends and family on excursions. Then the other cars are race/track cars
7. A big part of the car hobby for me is the community. Even within PCA, FCA, Rennlist and Ferrarichat, there are subgroups and I’ve enjoyed great friendships with like-minded, motorsports enthusiasts.
Last edited by mclaudio; 02-08-2018 at 03:04 AM. Reason: Typo
02-08-2018, 03:29 AM
#38
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This is my last car. I had to sign that in blood for my wife. The last car before that I had to sign in ink for my wife. My last car before that I had just given my wife my word. So I’m pretty much thinking that this GT3 really IS my last car though because I think European emissions are going to kill this kind of car.
when I was younger my first 911 was the 993 Twin Turbo, and I spent so much time and money making it a track car in the 2002 time frame , that when Porsche came out with the GT3 I thought that solved all my problems. Until I saw the 997 GT3. But then I thought I was financially smart and I felt that credit crash coming in 2008 and I sold it. 2nd biggest mistake I made after selling the 993TT. I was having back problems ( 2 surgeries) so a new GT3 didn’t make a lot of sense and Porsche was giving away cars in 09 so I bought a 997.2 C2S PDK because that was faster than my 997.1 GT3. It MSRPed around 110 and Porsche was giving $12,000 off plus I got a huge discount with 0% financing it was like 78,000 by the time we were done. And I traded it in for 60,000 5 years later. But in reality I wanted my GT3 back because for some it gets in your blood, and I love these cars. But in 2014 when I was looking the GT3 stop driving order was out so I got a 50 th, thinking it was a baby GT3. In the meantime my back healed after the 2nd surgery and rumors of the 4 liter were out there. So when that happened the market for the 50th was still strong and I wanted on the list but they wanted $25,000 at my local dealer. So I waited.
But this one is my last one. I have my 2012 X5M to mod and play with, but I think I will set mile records for me on one car in this GT3. Plus I’m tired of theses games with dealers and ADMs
How much more HP do we need ? 700 seems silly.
when I was younger my first 911 was the 993 Twin Turbo, and I spent so much time and money making it a track car in the 2002 time frame , that when Porsche came out with the GT3 I thought that solved all my problems. Until I saw the 997 GT3. But then I thought I was financially smart and I felt that credit crash coming in 2008 and I sold it. 2nd biggest mistake I made after selling the 993TT. I was having back problems ( 2 surgeries) so a new GT3 didn’t make a lot of sense and Porsche was giving away cars in 09 so I bought a 997.2 C2S PDK because that was faster than my 997.1 GT3. It MSRPed around 110 and Porsche was giving $12,000 off plus I got a huge discount with 0% financing it was like 78,000 by the time we were done. And I traded it in for 60,000 5 years later. But in reality I wanted my GT3 back because for some it gets in your blood, and I love these cars. But in 2014 when I was looking the GT3 stop driving order was out so I got a 50 th, thinking it was a baby GT3. In the meantime my back healed after the 2nd surgery and rumors of the 4 liter were out there. So when that happened the market for the 50th was still strong and I wanted on the list but they wanted $25,000 at my local dealer. So I waited.
But this one is my last one. I have my 2012 X5M to mod and play with, but I think I will set mile records for me on one car in this GT3. Plus I’m tired of theses games with dealers and ADMs
How much more HP do we need ? 700 seems silly.
02-08-2018, 03:53 AM
#39
Interesting thread - I have room for four performance cars, two of which are made by Porsche (currently). I like variety, am not wedded to a brand but do like all round performance. Most importantly the car has to be useable, by that I mean capable of being daily driven if I so chose. Also they need to see regular track service without taking 5 race mechanics in tow .
I do not consider depreciation or collectibility in my deliberations. In essence it comes down to this, usability plus performance..........I do have a soft spot for the Cayman in all guises, Porsche got an awful lot right with the 981 GTS and a 450HP GT4 would tick the boxes for me
I on sell when a car loses some of its magic, or when there is a significantly improved version of the same available for purchase. I suspect I will always own at least one sports car and given that my wife likes them and drives them with skill then I would imagine that means at least two.
.I do not consider depreciation or collectibility in my deliberations. In essence it comes down to this, usability plus performance..........I do have a soft spot for the Cayman in all guises, Porsche got an awful lot right with the 981 GTS and a 450HP GT4 would tick the boxes for me
I on sell when a car loses some of its magic, or when there is a significantly improved version of the same available for purchase. I suspect I will always own at least one sports car and given that my wife likes them and drives them with skill then I would imagine that means at least two.
02-08-2018, 10:00 AM
#40
I think it depends how well the car you buy fits your needs and desires. for a daily driver the world of deprecation, running costs, wear and tear come in to the equation.
If it's not a daily driver or a high mileage proposition then I prefer to buy with a mind to keep or a plan to evolve. The best Porsche I bought was a 964 RS, one of the best days of my life travelling over to Germany to pick up a 3 year old (then !) 8k km car, I cherished that car and loved it very much, 10 year later I sold it with 37k kms as I was moving house jobs and had the 'opportunity' to sell it fro 2x what I bought it for.... What a mistake
My current 991.1 GTS might get traded for a 991.1 GT3 at some point but it won't be sold without a replacement !
I also think if you keep a car for long enough, it does become more meaningful and rewarding. Nice to know it's not depreciating too quickly, but after 10 years that's a pointless calculation in any case
If it's not a daily driver or a high mileage proposition then I prefer to buy with a mind to keep or a plan to evolve. The best Porsche I bought was a 964 RS, one of the best days of my life travelling over to Germany to pick up a 3 year old (then !) 8k km car, I cherished that car and loved it very much, 10 year later I sold it with 37k kms as I was moving house jobs and had the 'opportunity' to sell it fro 2x what I bought it for.... What a mistake
My current 991.1 GTS might get traded for a 991.1 GT3 at some point but it won't be sold without a replacement !
I also think if you keep a car for long enough, it does become more meaningful and rewarding. Nice to know it's not depreciating too quickly, but after 10 years that's a pointless calculation in any case
02-08-2018, 10:34 AM
#41
Instructor
You laugh, but there is a lot of truth to soulsea's statement - at least for me. The thrill of the hunt, buying and selling, having a new toy - all keep me ticking. Sometimes I can get similar excitement by modding them. But, even with my best laid plans, I inevitably trade or sell/buy every few months....
02-08-2018, 10:51 AM
#42
Nordschleife Master
I only buy cars that make my heart beat faster and have some connection to history. E.G. Boss 302 LS, 987 Spyder, Ford GT, RS. Unfortunately I become attached to them. Sick. Yes. They become children to me. Yes. Irrational. I even name them.
For me to sell I have to find a good home and move on to another one that needs my attention and care.
Makes sense. Right?
For me to sell I have to find a good home and move on to another one that needs my attention and care.
Makes sense. Right?
02-08-2018, 10:59 AM
#43
Keeping in mind I am an outlier in regards to how most folks deal with vehicle ownership (and all other inanimate physical possessions) ... not only because of my disposition but because of being blessed with the resources to do my thing.
First and foremost I am not a collector. In my human form, I recognize that the one thing I can never get more of is time, it is my most precious possession, and it might be taken away from me at any moment. Accordingly, I like all my vehicle experiences to be limited to the story arc beginning with desire, ownership, extracting the most I can out of the experience, and discard it as soon as it has been lived. The idea of repetition is anathema to my sensibilities and perceived as time wasted not experiencing something new, something different. Some might refer to it as vehicular ADD, others as a calamitous search for never ending physical possessions to fill the soul crushing void within. Either way ... potato tomato.
So yes, five daily drivers in four years, almost twice as many sports/fun cars, four current cars including my GTI that I drive the most because it's not about what others see, and four Porsches and one AMG either on order or about to be ordered ... all of which will likely be held for less than a year and 1k miles, not because I'm speculating or flipping or gaming my cash flow, but simply because I will want to move on to experience different things in the limited amount of time I have left. Not that I don't recognize that the Porsche market enables me to have this approach with limited losses (at least for now), and I do appreciate that, but I do the same thing with other brands that are not as blessed, it's just how I am.
And then there's the watches ...
First and foremost I am not a collector. In my human form, I recognize that the one thing I can never get more of is time, it is my most precious possession, and it might be taken away from me at any moment. Accordingly, I like all my vehicle experiences to be limited to the story arc beginning with desire, ownership, extracting the most I can out of the experience, and discard it as soon as it has been lived. The idea of repetition is anathema to my sensibilities and perceived as time wasted not experiencing something new, something different. Some might refer to it as vehicular ADD, others as a calamitous search for never ending physical possessions to fill the soul crushing void within. Either way ... potato tomato.
So yes, five daily drivers in four years, almost twice as many sports/fun cars, four current cars including my GTI that I drive the most because it's not about what others see, and four Porsches and one AMG either on order or about to be ordered ... all of which will likely be held for less than a year and 1k miles, not because I'm speculating or flipping or gaming my cash flow, but simply because I will want to move on to experience different things in the limited amount of time I have left. Not that I don't recognize that the Porsche market enables me to have this approach with limited losses (at least for now), and I do appreciate that, but I do the same thing with other brands that are not as blessed, it's just how I am.
And then there's the watches ...
02-08-2018, 11:16 AM
#44
Race Director
Thread Starter
An interesting perspective, but one that misses I fear one of the real qualities derived from long term ownership, the relationship. My watches are the same all over 10 years of ownership and I think (at least believe) I appreciated them more because of it. Seems you're getting the buzz and excitement of new things but never getting the chance to really 'bond' ?
A good friend of mine offered to let me drive his 458 when we first met. I had never driven a Ferrari before, and still haven’t. My reasoning was that I felt uncomfortable driving a car that i wasn’t prepared to write a check for, if something bad happened. And while that is true, i also had another reason. I was afraid that driving a 458 would somehow cause me to appreciate my GT3 less. And that might eventually lead me to want something else, and that is a slippery slope to churning and burning cars. I found the sweet spot of satisfaction with my GT3 and i just didn’t want to screw that up. Ignorance is truly bliss. And I think there’s a fine line between where i am today, and where soulsea is at. A very fine line.
02-08-2018, 11:28 AM
#45
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I used to exclusively (with one exception) buy used cars with no interest in ever selling. I've had my 73 911 hotrod for 15 years. But then I discovered European Delivery and I've bought two new Porsches in 3 years. It's pretty fantastic and doing it again is the only thing I can currently imagine convincing me to sell/trade my GT3...
But I won't just buy any new Porsche - has to be a model that really pushes my buttons and one that can likely be exchanged for another new one later without much loss of principle value (in order to offer another ED opportunity). So, maybe my GT4 and Manual GT3 are the last of these for awhile?
But I won't just buy any new Porsche - has to be a model that really pushes my buttons and one that can likely be exchanged for another new one later without much loss of principle value (in order to offer another ED opportunity). So, maybe my GT4 and Manual GT3 are the last of these for awhile?