Gear shifter flexing under torque in 4th gear, on 991.2 GT3
06-07-2018, 06:59 AM
#62
Hi Tobias & Mark,
this bug is annoying for me too and none of my other Porsche (928gts, 997GT2, 993RS) shows this "Morbus Parkinson" in the gear box!
I realized this strange behaviour already at the first kilometers and informed the Porsche Dealer about this for me not normal 4-gear shifter movement
and finally gave them the car back in the PZ for the last 2 week to fix this bug.
The two chief mechanics in the PZ agreed with me, that this ist definitley NOT normal and they could compare it directly with an other manual shifted GT3
that did not show this movement at all. They documented this case very clearly with video clips.
Afterall they decided to change the gear box where all the problems seems to come out from on warranty, but yesterday the PAG changed its mind and so
my PZ had to tell me that this moving shifter phenomen is declared to be in the normal tolerance production levels and because the gear box shifts smooth and easy there would be no reason for them to change the gear box on warranty...................!!??
The PAG also was not amused about the whistleblowing of the PZ mechanics, as they shared their results and thoughts with me
and claimed this bug as not normal!
I guess the PAG is kidding me! There are already proofed cases where the gearboxes were changed due to this specific bug!
If Porsche tells us that there is a problem in the geometry or whatever,
hey guys, why then do not all manual shifted GT3 show this specific move!?
And what is the specific difference between the moving fraction and the others???
Is there a evident time window in the production line where the GT3 do have this problem and when not???
So, for me i will not accept this dancing shifter stick and want this problem to be solved very fast.
If not, my GT3 touring will be sold very quickly and i will further enjoy my old school Porsches and my 458 spider.
If this bug could not be fixed, for me i will never ever buy a Porsche again!
best regards Klaus
BTW here after 6:10min you can see this dancing shifter sitick even at this Porsche GT3 press Car
this bug is annoying for me too and none of my other Porsche (928gts, 997GT2, 993RS) shows this "Morbus Parkinson" in the gear box!
I realized this strange behaviour already at the first kilometers and informed the Porsche Dealer about this for me not normal 4-gear shifter movement
and finally gave them the car back in the PZ for the last 2 week to fix this bug.
The two chief mechanics in the PZ agreed with me, that this ist definitley NOT normal and they could compare it directly with an other manual shifted GT3
that did not show this movement at all. They documented this case very clearly with video clips.
Afterall they decided to change the gear box where all the problems seems to come out from on warranty, but yesterday the PAG changed its mind and so
my PZ had to tell me that this moving shifter phenomen is declared to be in the normal tolerance production levels and because the gear box shifts smooth and easy there would be no reason for them to change the gear box on warranty...................!!??
The PAG also was not amused about the whistleblowing of the PZ mechanics, as they shared their results and thoughts with me
and claimed this bug as not normal!
I guess the PAG is kidding me! There are already proofed cases where the gearboxes were changed due to this specific bug!
If Porsche tells us that there is a problem in the geometry or whatever,
hey guys, why then do not all manual shifted GT3 show this specific move!?
And what is the specific difference between the moving fraction and the others???
Is there a evident time window in the production line where the GT3 do have this problem and when not???
So, for me i will not accept this dancing shifter stick and want this problem to be solved very fast.
If not, my GT3 touring will be sold very quickly and i will further enjoy my old school Porsches and my 458 spider.
If this bug could not be fixed, for me i will never ever buy a Porsche again!
best regards Klaus
BTW here after 6:10min you can see this dancing shifter sitick even at this Porsche GT3 press Car
Last edited by 997 GT2; 03-04-2019 at 09:57 AM.
06-07-2018, 08:27 AM
#63
Race Director
^If you can not live with it I would sell it. I am not the least bit concerned.
Try going thru the .1 GT3 fiasco back in 2014. After all of that I have grown numb to issues. If it is an issue- Porsche will take care of it
I have yet to drive a "perfect" car or find the "perfect" women. Neither exists
Try going thru the .1 GT3 fiasco back in 2014. After all of that I have grown numb to issues. If it is an issue- Porsche will take care of it
I have yet to drive a "perfect" car or find the "perfect" women. Neither exists
06-07-2018, 08:28 AM
#64
Rennlist Member
Just watched the video with the press Car...That movement is really ridiculous on a 150k Car.....my 1973 Datsun 1200 used to do that but not even that much or in the flicking manner!!!.....so I guess with resale.....the question will be does your stick move or not in 4th and ones that don't will be more coveted?
06-07-2018, 09:50 AM
#65
Hi Tobias & Mark,
this bug is annoying for me too and none of my other Porsche (928gts, 997GT2, 993RS) shows this "Morbus Parkinson" in the gear box!
I realized this strange behaviour already at the first kilometers and informed the Porsche Dealer about this for me not normal 4-gear shifter movement
and finally gave them the car back in the PZ for the last 2 week to fix this bug.
The two chief mechanics in the PZ agreed with me, that this ist definitley NOT normal and they could compare it directly with an other manual shifted GT3
that did not show this movement at all. They documented this casev very clearly with video clips.
Afterall they decided to change the gear box where all the problems seems to come out from on warranty, but yesterday the PAG changed its mind and so
my PZ had to tell me that this moving shifter phenomen is declared to be in the normal tolerance production levels and because the gear box shifts smooth and easy there would be no reason for them to change the gear box on warranty...................!!??
The PAG also was not amused about the whistleblowing of the PZ mechanics, as they shared their results and thoughts with me
and claimed this bug as not normal!
I guess the PAG is kidding me! There are already proofed cases where the gearboxes were changed due to this specific bug!
If Porsche tells us that there is a problem in the geometry or whatever,
hey gus why do not all manual shifted GT3 show this specific move!?
And what is the specific difference between the moving fraction and the others???
Is there a evident time window in the production line where the GT3 do have this problem and when not???
So, for me i will not accept this dancing shifter stick and want this problem to be solved very fast.
If not, my GT3 touring will be sold very quickly and i will further enjoy my old school Porsches and my 458 spider.
If this bug could not be fixed, for me i will never ever buy a Porsche again!
best regards Klaus
BTW here after 6:10min you can see this dancing shifter sitick even at this Porsche GT3 press Car
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqs5_AdKpsg
this bug is annoying for me too and none of my other Porsche (928gts, 997GT2, 993RS) shows this "Morbus Parkinson" in the gear box!
I realized this strange behaviour already at the first kilometers and informed the Porsche Dealer about this for me not normal 4-gear shifter movement
and finally gave them the car back in the PZ for the last 2 week to fix this bug.
The two chief mechanics in the PZ agreed with me, that this ist definitley NOT normal and they could compare it directly with an other manual shifted GT3
that did not show this movement at all. They documented this casev very clearly with video clips.
Afterall they decided to change the gear box where all the problems seems to come out from on warranty, but yesterday the PAG changed its mind and so
my PZ had to tell me that this moving shifter phenomen is declared to be in the normal tolerance production levels and because the gear box shifts smooth and easy there would be no reason for them to change the gear box on warranty...................!!??
The PAG also was not amused about the whistleblowing of the PZ mechanics, as they shared their results and thoughts with me
and claimed this bug as not normal!
I guess the PAG is kidding me! There are already proofed cases where the gearboxes were changed due to this specific bug!
If Porsche tells us that there is a problem in the geometry or whatever,
hey gus why do not all manual shifted GT3 show this specific move!?
And what is the specific difference between the moving fraction and the others???
Is there a evident time window in the production line where the GT3 do have this problem and when not???
So, for me i will not accept this dancing shifter stick and want this problem to be solved very fast.
If not, my GT3 touring will be sold very quickly and i will further enjoy my old school Porsches and my 458 spider.
If this bug could not be fixed, for me i will never ever buy a Porsche again!
best regards Klaus
BTW here after 6:10min you can see this dancing shifter sitick even at this Porsche GT3 press Car
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqs5_AdKpsg
06-07-2018, 11:45 AM
#67
Drifting
Thanks, Mark, for your feedback. My Touring shows the same behaviour, but I am not overly worried by that. The manual transmission as such works very well. The only thing which is indeed a bit strange is that about 50% of manual GT3s seem to have this „loose“ 4th gear, the other half not. I have started a poll on the German Porsche forum PFF to gather some statistical data and views. Might be worthwhile starting a similar survey on Rennlist, too?
Best,
Tobias
Best,
Tobias
06-07-2018, 12:29 PM
#68
Rennlist Member
I found ns zombies story quite interesting......typical Germanic company response having worked 15 years for German companies....their motto "we might not be right but we are never wrong...." which governed their IMS decisions over 10 years with the 996, and the "don't speak up culture" or catch sh-t ala the emissions scandal they buried for years....they are in PR mode once again....
06-07-2018, 12:34 PM
#69
Hi guys,
thank you all for your "condolence" ;-) but the duck and cover way of how the PAG trys to get rid of this problem sucks really. I did not buy a LADA!
The GT3 shifter syndrom is so obvious that one has to recognice it due to the tactile response and the amount of visible movement,
which you can see in the youtube cilp of the black GT3 touring press car.
I will write the Porsche CEO, who congratiolatet me fot buying a GT3, a letter that reveals this problem and with the VIN he can easily take a look a my case which is absolute perfectly documented.
I will give him the advise that It is always better to lose some money, than your good reputation!
regards Klaus
thank you all for your "condolence" ;-) but the duck and cover way of how the PAG trys to get rid of this problem sucks really. I did not buy a LADA!
The GT3 shifter syndrom is so obvious that one has to recognice it due to the tactile response and the amount of visible movement,
which you can see in the youtube cilp of the black GT3 touring press car.
I will write the Porsche CEO, who congratiolatet me fot buying a GT3, a letter that reveals this problem and with the VIN he can easily take a look a my case which is absolute perfectly documented.
I will give him the advise that It is always better to lose some money, than your good reputation!
regards Klaus
Last edited by 997 GT2; 06-07-2018 at 01:29 PM.
06-07-2018, 02:31 PM
#71
Three Wheelin'
I have never noticed it, but I don't keep my hand on the shifter. I was always taught not to keep your foot on the clutch or hand on the shifter unless shifting.
06-07-2018, 02:42 PM
#72
Three Wheelin'
Hi Guys
I have owned many modern Porsches with manual transmission including 2008 Cayman, 2008 Boxster, 2013 Boxster, 2016 GT4, 2016 Boxster Spyder, 991.1 & 991.2 911 and non of them exhibited this movement or flex in the shifter, which is why I was concerned that perhaps something was wrong, but after many inspections by Porsche & PCNA technician who flew to inspect the car and many discussions with PCNA team, they are saying it is normal and are sure this flex or movement is normal and is inherent to this new shifter design and mainly due to how the new GT3 linkage is positioned and how it is attached to the actual shifter. They are saying the linkage in the GT3 is positioned directly inline and in perfect alignment with 4th gear gate, so there is no offset present like it is the case of the other Porsches where there is a slight offset, and where this offset usually preloads the linkage slightly and gives it some additional rigidity, which is why we they are claiming we are noticing slight movement in the shifter in 4th only as throttle input is varied. So they are saying it is a result of the linkage geometry..
As others pointed out, and as PCNA also points out, this movement occurs with the slightest and smoothest throttle input (even less than 5%), so it is not likely be torque induced or due to a bad mount, and why only in 4th and rock solid in all other gears. So they are saying it is normal and only due to geometry of 4th to the linkage and nothing to worry about. After adding 3000 miles on the car, I hardly notice it anymore and really in love with this car and it has become my all time favorite. We have 4 yrs warranty and I probably put over 20k miles in the next 18 months, so the truth will come out sooner or later. I am not worried, I have gone through 3 engines on my 991.1 GT3 in 20,000 miles as I drive them very hard, so one way or another I am determined to get to the bottom of this weather PCNA is truthful or feeding us some bull****. Hopefully this helps.
Finally I also have watched few YouTube review videos of manual GT3, like the one Shmee did on a test track and also observed this shifter movement in his video and few others as well. So perhaps all the manual GT3 cars suffer from this, but we need to keep an eye on it and perhaps if anyone had their transmission replaced anywhere in the world due to this or due to another transmission failure, can weigh in here. We need to verify these replacement claims and if indeed the replacement tranny fixed this issue, or if this issue contributed to a failure. After 3000 hard miles on mine, including track and autocross usage, the transmission seems very solids and the shifts are perfect. I have been addicted to the no-lift shifts, and the launch control. So aside from this annoying movement, everything else works perfect. Hope to hear from others on this. Mark
I have owned many modern Porsches with manual transmission including 2008 Cayman, 2008 Boxster, 2013 Boxster, 2016 GT4, 2016 Boxster Spyder, 991.1 & 991.2 911 and non of them exhibited this movement or flex in the shifter, which is why I was concerned that perhaps something was wrong, but after many inspections by Porsche & PCNA technician who flew to inspect the car and many discussions with PCNA team, they are saying it is normal and are sure this flex or movement is normal and is inherent to this new shifter design and mainly due to how the new GT3 linkage is positioned and how it is attached to the actual shifter. They are saying the linkage in the GT3 is positioned directly inline and in perfect alignment with 4th gear gate, so there is no offset present like it is the case of the other Porsches where there is a slight offset, and where this offset usually preloads the linkage slightly and gives it some additional rigidity, which is why we they are claiming we are noticing slight movement in the shifter in 4th only as throttle input is varied. So they are saying it is a result of the linkage geometry..
As others pointed out, and as PCNA also points out, this movement occurs with the slightest and smoothest throttle input (even less than 5%), so it is not likely be torque induced or due to a bad mount, and why only in 4th and rock solid in all other gears. So they are saying it is normal and only due to geometry of 4th to the linkage and nothing to worry about. After adding 3000 miles on the car, I hardly notice it anymore and really in love with this car and it has become my all time favorite. We have 4 yrs warranty and I probably put over 20k miles in the next 18 months, so the truth will come out sooner or later. I am not worried, I have gone through 3 engines on my 991.1 GT3 in 20,000 miles as I drive them very hard, so one way or another I am determined to get to the bottom of this weather PCNA is truthful or feeding us some bull****. Hopefully this helps.
Finally I also have watched few YouTube review videos of manual GT3, like the one Shmee did on a test track and also observed this shifter movement in his video and few others as well. So perhaps all the manual GT3 cars suffer from this, but we need to keep an eye on it and perhaps if anyone had their transmission replaced anywhere in the world due to this or due to another transmission failure, can weigh in here. We need to verify these replacement claims and if indeed the replacement tranny fixed this issue, or if this issue contributed to a failure. After 3000 hard miles on mine, including track and autocross usage, the transmission seems very solids and the shifts are perfect. I have been addicted to the no-lift shifts, and the launch control. So aside from this annoying movement, everything else works perfect. Hope to hear from others on this. Mark
06-07-2018, 03:37 PM
#73
Race Director
I can not believe every one whining about a little movement in 4th gear. Everyone should sell their cars and/or cancel your orders because a car this expensive should be perfect. What are you going to do when you get your first Ding on the car.
That is what warranties are for and the explanation that was posted makes sense.
That is what warranties are for and the explanation that was posted makes sense.
06-07-2018, 04:22 PM
#74
Hi Guys,
i am still missing the plausible PAG explanation why some cars do not show any symptoms of this shifter syndrom at all ????
regards Klaus
Their explanation makes sense. I'm okay with that and will enjoy my car. The manual is the best I've ever driven.
i am still missing the plausible PAG explanation why some cars do not show any symptoms of this shifter syndrom at all ????
regards Klaus
Originally Posted by mqandil 
Hi Guys
I have owned many modern Porsches with manual transmission including 2008 Cayman, 2008 Boxster, 2013 Boxster, 2016 GT4, 2016 Boxster Spyder, 991.1 & 991.2 911 and non of them exhibited this movement or flex in the shifter, which is why I was concerned that perhaps something was wrong, but after many inspections by Porsche & PCNA technician who flew to inspect the car and many discussions with PCNA team, they are saying it is normal and are sure this flex or movement is normal and is inherent to this new shifter design and mainly due to how the new GT3 linkage is positioned and how it is attached to the actual shifter. They are saying the linkage in the GT3 is positioned directly inline and in perfect alignment with 4th gear gate, so there is no offset present like it is the case of the other Porsches where there is a slight offset, and where this offset usually preloads the linkage slightly and gives it some additional rigidity, which is why we they are claiming we are noticing slight movement in the shifter in 4th only as throttle input is varied. So they are saying it is a result of the linkage geometry..
As others pointed out, and as PCNA also points out, this movement occurs with the slightest and smoothest throttle input (even less than 5%), so it is not likely be torque induced or due to a bad mount, and why only in 4th and rock solid in all other gears. So they are saying it is normal and only due to geometry of 4th to the linkage and nothing to worry about. After adding 3000 miles on the car, I hardly notice it anymore and really in love with this car and it has become my all time favorite. We have 4 yrs warranty and I probably put over 20k miles in the next 18 months, so the truth will come out sooner or later. I am not worried, I have gone through 3 engines on my 991.1 GT3 in 20,000 miles as I drive them very hard, so one way or another I am determined to get to the bottom of this weather PCNA is truthful or feeding us some bull****. Hopefully this helps.
Finally I also have watched few YouTube review videos of manual GT3, like the one Shmee did on a test track and also observed this shifter movement in his video and few others as well. So perhaps all the manual GT3 cars suffer from this, but we need to keep an eye on it and perhaps if anyone had their transmission replaced anywhere in the world due to this or due to another transmission failure, can weigh in here. We need to verify these replacement claims and if indeed the replacement tranny fixed this issue, or if this issue contributed to a failure. After 3000 hard miles on mine, including track and autocross usage, the transmission seems very solids and the shifts are perfect. I have been addicted to the no-lift shifts, and the launch control. So aside from this annoying movement, everything else works perfect. Hope to hear from others on this. Mark
I have owned many modern Porsches with manual transmission including 2008 Cayman, 2008 Boxster, 2013 Boxster, 2016 GT4, 2016 Boxster Spyder, 991.1 & 991.2 911 and non of them exhibited this movement or flex in the shifter, which is why I was concerned that perhaps something was wrong, but after many inspections by Porsche & PCNA technician who flew to inspect the car and many discussions with PCNA team, they are saying it is normal and are sure this flex or movement is normal and is inherent to this new shifter design and mainly due to how the new GT3 linkage is positioned and how it is attached to the actual shifter. They are saying the linkage in the GT3 is positioned directly inline and in perfect alignment with 4th gear gate, so there is no offset present like it is the case of the other Porsches where there is a slight offset, and where this offset usually preloads the linkage slightly and gives it some additional rigidity, which is why we they are claiming we are noticing slight movement in the shifter in 4th only as throttle input is varied. So they are saying it is a result of the linkage geometry..
As others pointed out, and as PCNA also points out, this movement occurs with the slightest and smoothest throttle input (even less than 5%), so it is not likely be torque induced or due to a bad mount, and why only in 4th and rock solid in all other gears. So they are saying it is normal and only due to geometry of 4th to the linkage and nothing to worry about. After adding 3000 miles on the car, I hardly notice it anymore and really in love with this car and it has become my all time favorite. We have 4 yrs warranty and I probably put over 20k miles in the next 18 months, so the truth will come out sooner or later. I am not worried, I have gone through 3 engines on my 991.1 GT3 in 20,000 miles as I drive them very hard, so one way or another I am determined to get to the bottom of this weather PCNA is truthful or feeding us some bull****. Hopefully this helps.
Finally I also have watched few YouTube review videos of manual GT3, like the one Shmee did on a test track and also observed this shifter movement in his video and few others as well. So perhaps all the manual GT3 cars suffer from this, but we need to keep an eye on it and perhaps if anyone had their transmission replaced anywhere in the world due to this or due to another transmission failure, can weigh in here. We need to verify these replacement claims and if indeed the replacement tranny fixed this issue, or if this issue contributed to a failure. After 3000 hard miles on mine, including track and autocross usage, the transmission seems very solids and the shifts are perfect. I have been addicted to the no-lift shifts, and the launch control. So aside from this annoying movement, everything else works perfect. Hope to hear from others on this. Mark
Last edited by 997 GT2; 06-08-2018 at 07:32 AM.
06-07-2018, 11:35 PM
#75
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Thanks for all the replies and I do understand some of the frustrations as I had them myself shortly after I picked up my car and spotted the issue.
I picked my car late January and noticed the issue immediately and was concerned with it and for the next couple of weeks I started this thread to document the issue then also complain about the problem then after February 8th then I turned silent for few months until a fellow Rennlist member emailed me few days ago and asked me if I had a resolution on this issue which lead me to check back on my old thread and provide an update.
If any of you wonder what’s going on, here is the explanation
As soon as I got the car, i set out to perform a break in procedure on my new bride, and typically I follow my own accelerated break-in procedure where I slowely build up RPM during the 1st 3 gas fills and by the time I am filling my 4th time, I am shifting at red line occasionally. This usually takes me around 700 to 800 miles on odometer.
I think all of my observations about this sloppy shifter occurred during this break in time (1st 2 to 3 weeks of ownership) where I am taking my time to shift and also changing the gears so much slower than normal, and this is where I noticed this issue as I was not driving the beast but rather fondling it, waiting to get to 1st base, but as soon as I got her broken-in and ready which happened around middle of February, I shut the hell up and stopped talking all together and just drove this wonderful beast really hard, and frankly forgot about this sloppy shifter until someone asked me about it the other day. I think as you drive this car harder and harder, and try to shift faster and faster, you won’t even remember there was a sloppy shifter. You are often too busy trying to grab the next gear and too busy having too much fun.
Honestly.... it does suck to have a sloppy shifter in this day & age and especially in a 200K car. Shame on porsche and we certainly are coming after you if this gearbox fails prematurely. However you are only noticing the shifter because you are likely have too much idle time on your hand while still waiting to play hard with the new beast, but as soon as you do, and if you do drive it hard most of the time like I do, I assure you, this sloppy shifter is something of the past and you are only reminded when you come here to this thread which I started when My car & myself were still a virgin!
As I said earlier I am not worried..... we have 4 yrs warranty and I assure you we are going to find out if we have a bad box or not. Where else would you are able to track your car and drive her like a maniac then bring her the next day for warranty evaluation. Go enjoy yourselves and enjoy the hell out of this wonderful beast and hopefully we get to break its box in the process, so we can get a new one and perhaps some additional compensation like we did in 991.1 GT3. Mark
I picked my car late January and noticed the issue immediately and was concerned with it and for the next couple of weeks I started this thread to document the issue then also complain about the problem then after February 8th then I turned silent for few months until a fellow Rennlist member emailed me few days ago and asked me if I had a resolution on this issue which lead me to check back on my old thread and provide an update.
If any of you wonder what’s going on, here is the explanation
As soon as I got the car, i set out to perform a break in procedure on my new bride, and typically I follow my own accelerated break-in procedure where I slowely build up RPM during the 1st 3 gas fills and by the time I am filling my 4th time, I am shifting at red line occasionally. This usually takes me around 700 to 800 miles on odometer.
I think all of my observations about this sloppy shifter occurred during this break in time (1st 2 to 3 weeks of ownership) where I am taking my time to shift and also changing the gears so much slower than normal, and this is where I noticed this issue as I was not driving the beast but rather fondling it, waiting to get to 1st base, but as soon as I got her broken-in and ready which happened around middle of February, I shut the hell up and stopped talking all together and just drove this wonderful beast really hard, and frankly forgot about this sloppy shifter until someone asked me about it the other day. I think as you drive this car harder and harder, and try to shift faster and faster, you won’t even remember there was a sloppy shifter. You are often too busy trying to grab the next gear and too busy having too much fun.
Honestly.... it does suck to have a sloppy shifter in this day & age and especially in a 200K car. Shame on porsche and we certainly are coming after you if this gearbox fails prematurely. However you are only noticing the shifter because you are likely have too much idle time on your hand while still waiting to play hard with the new beast, but as soon as you do, and if you do drive it hard most of the time like I do, I assure you, this sloppy shifter is something of the past and you are only reminded when you come here to this thread which I started when My car & myself were still a virgin!
As I said earlier I am not worried..... we have 4 yrs warranty and I assure you we are going to find out if we have a bad box or not. Where else would you are able to track your car and drive her like a maniac then bring her the next day for warranty evaluation. Go enjoy yourselves and enjoy the hell out of this wonderful beast and hopefully we get to break its box in the process, so we can get a new one and perhaps some additional compensation like we did in 991.1 GT3. Mark
Last edited by mqandil; 06-08-2018 at 12:05 AM.