2018 Rolex 24 from bad to worse
01-29-2018, 11:58 PM
#91
Drifting
edit: double post sorry
01-30-2018, 12:06 AM
#92
Drifting
Well, they already have but don't let that get in the way of a good mic drop...
01-30-2018, 01:06 AM
#94
Drifting
For a variety of reasons - BOP-driven - Porsche has chosen to use the NA engine.
01-30-2018, 01:18 AM
#95
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Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
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Just in time is right, Porsche has to do a better job of lobbying. It’s a bit of all the points made here- the rules, Porsche corporate, and whom the people who make the rules find favor with(at the time). The FGT was made to a set of rules. The 911’s can be bought by almost anyone and I have always believed that the racing 911 is closer to the cars we drive than any other car on the grid. Anyone here can buy a GT3 but not everyone can just go out and buy a FGT. Porsche will eventually get it right. I hope
01-30-2018, 09:51 AM
#96
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Just in time is right, Porsche has to do a better job of lobbying. It’s a bit of all the points made here- the rules, Porsche corporate, and whom the people who make the rules find favor with(at the time). The FGT was made to a set of rules. The 911’s can be bought by almost anyone and I have always believed that the racing 911 is closer to the cars we drive than any other car on the grid. Anyone here can buy a GT3 but not everyone can just go out and buy a FGT. Porsche will eventually get it right. I hope
Interestingly, the Gen II FGT was a very very successful race car over a number of seasons winning numerous championships with the Matec team and damn near won LeMans in class but was taken out after leading in class for 8 hours by an LMP1 hitting it coming out of the pits. Actually the Gen II is more impressive as a race car since it was designed as a street GT car not a race car and you could buy one and it won multiple championships.
The Gen III FGT a purpose built race car is competing against road GT cars modified for racing so the later starts off at a disadvantage from the jump.
Based on Dave's posts it appears that the BOP needs to be better balanced. Last year the RSR finished second at Daytona and damn near passed the FGT with Pilet behind the wheel. I agree, the RSR is undoubtedly better than last year so it clearly leads us to the BOP is the key....but again remember Pilet/Tandy was in the hunt this year again for the first 3 spots until the off road excursion at 10:30 p.m.
Maybe we are all just overeacting and panicing?
01-30-2018, 04:21 PM
#97
Three Wheelin'
Agreed. The new Gen III FGT is a purpose built race car with just enough made to homologate. It's irrelevant to me since there is no way I can buy one. Ford turned down my application despite 30 years of bleeding blue, owning many Ford products, tracking Fords etc... in favor of celebrity chicks with guitars and fake wrestlers looking to flip. I have 0 interest in the new FGT since there is no way I can acquire one. Don't even watch Youtube tests or reviews on it. Ok, maybe one.
Interestingly, the Gen II FGT was a very very successful race car over a number of seasons winning numerous championships with the Matec team and damn near won LeMans in class but was taken out after leading in class for 8 hours by an LMP1 hitting it coming out of the pits. Actually the Gen II is more impressive as a race car since it was designed as a street GT car not a race car and you could buy one and it won multiple championships.
The Gen III FGT a purpose built race car is competing against road GT cars modified for racing so the later starts off at a disadvantage from the jump.
Based on Dave's posts it appears that the BOP needs to be better balanced. Last year the RSR finished second at Daytona and damn near passed the FGT with Pilet behind the wheel. I agree, the RSR is undoubtedly better than last year so it clearly leads us to the BOP is the key....but again remember Pilet/Tandy was in the hunt this year again for the first 3 spots until the off road excursion at 10:30 p.m.
Maybe we are all just overeacting and panicing?
Interestingly, the Gen II FGT was a very very successful race car over a number of seasons winning numerous championships with the Matec team and damn near won LeMans in class but was taken out after leading in class for 8 hours by an LMP1 hitting it coming out of the pits. Actually the Gen II is more impressive as a race car since it was designed as a street GT car not a race car and you could buy one and it won multiple championships.
The Gen III FGT a purpose built race car is competing against road GT cars modified for racing so the later starts off at a disadvantage from the jump.
Based on Dave's posts it appears that the BOP needs to be better balanced. Last year the RSR finished second at Daytona and damn near passed the FGT with Pilet behind the wheel. I agree, the RSR is undoubtedly better than last year so it clearly leads us to the BOP is the key....but again remember Pilet/Tandy was in the hunt this year again for the first 3 spots until the off road excursion at 10:30 p.m.
Maybe we are all just overeacting and panicing?
Having seen the race I would very much doubt the 911car (vis-a-vis the 912) would have had a chance in a straight fight with the Fords. Our cars were clearly hamstrung by BOP. The P cars performed well during during the Roar, which I also attended, only to be screwed by the final BOP adjustments. Not only they took away three liters of fuel they also made our refilling slower by putting a smaller restrictor in the fuel neck. So we had to stop earlier and pit for a longer period. We all should note that the Fords were already the fastest cars during the Roar. Seeing the Fords go was a delightful sight as a race fan, I am however just disappointed in how unbalanced the thing seemed to be.
01-30-2018, 05:33 PM
#98
Drifting
Agreed. The new Gen III FGT is a purpose built race car with just enough made to homologate. It's irrelevant to me since there is no way I can buy one. Ford turned down my application despite 30 years of bleeding blue, owning many Ford products, tracking Fords etc... in favor of celebrity chicks with guitars and fake wrestlers looking to flip. I have 0 interest in the new FGT since there is no way I can acquire one. Don't even watch Youtube tests or reviews on it. Ok, maybe one.
Interestingly, the Gen II FGT was a very very successful race car over a number of seasons winning numerous championships with the Matec team and damn near won LeMans in class but was taken out after leading in class for 8 hours by an LMP1 hitting it coming out of the pits. Actually the Gen II is more impressive as a race car since it was designed as a street GT car not a race car and you could buy one and it won multiple championships.
The Gen III FGT a purpose built race car is competing against road GT cars modified for racing so the later starts off at a disadvantage from the jump.
Based on Dave's posts it appears that the BOP needs to be better balanced. Last year the RSR finished second at Daytona and damn near passed the FGT with Pilet behind the wheel. I agree, the RSR is undoubtedly better than last year so it clearly leads us to the BOP is the key....but again remember Pilet/Tandy was in the hunt this year again for the first 3 spots until the off road excursion at 10:30 p.m.
Maybe we are all just overeacting and panicing?
Interestingly, the Gen II FGT was a very very successful race car over a number of seasons winning numerous championships with the Matec team and damn near won LeMans in class but was taken out after leading in class for 8 hours by an LMP1 hitting it coming out of the pits. Actually the Gen II is more impressive as a race car since it was designed as a street GT car not a race car and you could buy one and it won multiple championships.
The Gen III FGT a purpose built race car is competing against road GT cars modified for racing so the later starts off at a disadvantage from the jump.
Based on Dave's posts it appears that the BOP needs to be better balanced. Last year the RSR finished second at Daytona and damn near passed the FGT with Pilet behind the wheel. I agree, the RSR is undoubtedly better than last year so it clearly leads us to the BOP is the key....but again remember Pilet/Tandy was in the hunt this year again for the first 3 spots until the off road excursion at 10:30 p.m.
Maybe we are all just overeacting and panicing?
In my opinion, Pilet is the strongest factory driver in the RSR (specifically that car). This is based on his driving throughout last year; similarly, Nick Tandy was probably the strongest driver they had in the previous RSR. 2015 was a monster year of driving for him.
01-30-2018, 06:58 PM
#99
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Dave thanks for the input. So here’s the thing if street based GT cars are competing against a purpose built race car why wouldn’t the organizing body make sure that BOP was at a minimum slightly advantageous in the street GT modified cars if not totally fair across-the-board . Why would they penalize the Porsche cars when they know that the FGT‘s without appropriate BOP have a clear advantage?
While it’s great to watch the FGT’s run at a certain point if they’re running all by themselves race after race it become somewhat boring and monotonous for most I would think?
If I was PAG I would be having a very stern conversation with IMSA right now
01-30-2018, 07:04 PM
#100
Drifting
Dave thanks for the input. So here’s the thing if street based GT cars are competing against a purpose built race car why wouldn’t the organizing body make sure that BOP was at a minimum slightly advantageous in the street GT modified cars if not totally fair across-the-board . Why would they penalize the Porsche cars when they know that the FGT‘s without appropriate BOP have a clear advantage?
While it’s great to watch the FGT’s run at a certain point if they’re running all by themselves race after race it become somewhat boring and monotonous for most I would think?
If I was PAG I would be having a very stern conversation with IMSA right now
As far as clear advantage ... it depends. The Ford is a long car with a long wheelbase; the 911s won easily at Lime Rock (GTLM and GTD) last year.
Corvette frequently claims "OMG our ZO6 is SO AWESOME that IMSA has to *slow us down* by taking away horsepower to let the other guys compete;" I have heard reps say this on more than one occasion.
The Corvette and Ferrari actually make more horsepower than the Ford in street trim, but the Ford has the trickest aero by FAR.
01-31-2018, 08:44 PM
#101
Three Wheelin'
Interesting quote attributed to Chip Ganassi in yesterday’s paper. What did he know? Isn’t BOP supposed to make all cars equally competitive. Maybe it’s the skeptic in me.
01-31-2018, 11:10 PM
#102
Drifting
I think you're reading a lot into that quote. It was Ford's to lose because Daytona suits their car perfectly.
2016 the car was brand new
2017 the rain and yellows kept the field together, they still won
2018 they dominated
2016 the car was brand new
2017 the rain and yellows kept the field together, they still won
2018 they dominated
01-31-2018, 11:31 PM
#103
Three Wheelin'
02-01-2018, 01:02 PM
#104
Rennlist Member
IMO, the SRO/Blancpain/PWC BOP is the best there is to equally balance Turbo and NA cars. The reason is because they independently test drive each car, with their own drivers, and assign BOP based on that, and on the "track type". They deal with more manufacturers than IMSA or WEC, and their races seem more competitive, and you don't hear BOP complaints as much as in GTD or GTLM. They also assign penalties for potential cheating, like "overboost" within a race, which helps to ensure teams don't mess with boost within the actual race, so it's real-time analysis and enforcement.
So when the BOP is right, the NA Porsche powerplant is just fine against all these "supposed" torque monster turbo cars. With a huge push this year in GT3 from Porsche, I think it's going to be quite fun to see all the factory and factory supported teams finally duke it out with all the other makes on a more equal talent and car count playing field. IMSA BOP isn't even up to WEC or SRO standards, that's painfully obvious. Daytona and Le Mans simply exposes the problems even more, because of the high speed nature of the tracks, which make it inherently harder to BOP, so I'll give them that.
A quick scan of Sportcar365 and you'll see proof that Porsche is putting the same effort into their GT programs for 2018. I think you are going to see the "true" pace of the GT3R globally now, instead of just in PWC, where we knew it was great.
GTLM is great, but to me, the GT3/GTD is so much more exciting, and given how good the Conti GS/GT4 race was, these will be the best racing to watch in 2018. I love seeing a Mcpherson-strut front suspension GT3R win against all these A-arm, turbo, carbon tub race cars. It just shows how good the product is, even with the engine in the "wrong" place.
So when the BOP is right, the NA Porsche powerplant is just fine against all these "supposed" torque monster turbo cars. With a huge push this year in GT3 from Porsche, I think it's going to be quite fun to see all the factory and factory supported teams finally duke it out with all the other makes on a more equal talent and car count playing field. IMSA BOP isn't even up to WEC or SRO standards, that's painfully obvious. Daytona and Le Mans simply exposes the problems even more, because of the high speed nature of the tracks, which make it inherently harder to BOP, so I'll give them that.
A quick scan of Sportcar365 and you'll see proof that Porsche is putting the same effort into their GT programs for 2018. I think you are going to see the "true" pace of the GT3R globally now, instead of just in PWC, where we knew it was great.
GTLM is great, but to me, the GT3/GTD is so much more exciting, and given how good the Conti GS/GT4 race was, these will be the best racing to watch in 2018. I love seeing a Mcpherson-strut front suspension GT3R win against all these A-arm, turbo, carbon tub race cars. It just shows how good the product is, even with the engine in the "wrong" place.
02-01-2018, 01:13 PM
#105
Drifting
IMO, the SRO/Blancpain/PWC BOP is the best there is to equally balance Turbo and NA cars. The reason is because they independently test drive each car, with their own drivers, and assign BOP based on that, and on the "track type". They deal with more manufacturers than IMSA or WEC, and their races seem more competitive, and you don't hear BOP complaints as much as in GTD or GTLM. They also assign penalties for potential cheating, like "overboost" within a race, which helps to ensure teams don't mess with boost within the actual race, so it's real-time analysis and enforcement.
So when the BOP is right, the NA Porsche powerplant is just fine against all these "supposed" torque monster turbo cars. With a huge push this year in GT3 from Porsche, I think it's going to be quite fun to see all the factory and factory supported teams finally duke it out with all the other makes on a more equal talent and car count playing field. IMSA BOP isn't even up to WEC or SRO standards, that's painfully obvious. Daytona and Le Mans simply exposes the problems even more, because of the high speed nature of the tracks, which make it inherently harder to BOP, so I'll give them that.
A quick scan of Sportcar365 and you'll see proof that Porsche is putting the same effort into their GT programs for 2018. I think you are going to see the "true" pace of the GT3R globally now, instead of just in PWC, where we knew it was great.
GTLM is great, but to me, the GT3/GTD is so much more exciting, and given how good the Conti GS/GT4 race was, these will be the best racing to watch in 2018. I love seeing a Mcpherson-strut front suspension GT3R win against all these A-arm, turbo, carbon tub race cars. It just shows how good the product is, even with the engine in the "wrong" place.
So when the BOP is right, the NA Porsche powerplant is just fine against all these "supposed" torque monster turbo cars. With a huge push this year in GT3 from Porsche, I think it's going to be quite fun to see all the factory and factory supported teams finally duke it out with all the other makes on a more equal talent and car count playing field. IMSA BOP isn't even up to WEC or SRO standards, that's painfully obvious. Daytona and Le Mans simply exposes the problems even more, because of the high speed nature of the tracks, which make it inherently harder to BOP, so I'll give them that.
A quick scan of Sportcar365 and you'll see proof that Porsche is putting the same effort into their GT programs for 2018. I think you are going to see the "true" pace of the GT3R globally now, instead of just in PWC, where we knew it was great.
GTLM is great, but to me, the GT3/GTD is so much more exciting, and given how good the Conti GS/GT4 race was, these will be the best racing to watch in 2018. I love seeing a Mcpherson-strut front suspension GT3R win against all these A-arm, turbo, carbon tub race cars. It just shows how good the product is, even with the engine in the "wrong" place.
