F&*%ing centerlock's - now appreciate Orthojoe's Avatar
01-26-2018, 12:09 AM
#77
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
"Finally, are there really special jack stands? Could someone post a part # and picture? I have a lift and was just planning on getting the jackstands that come with the lift. Is there anything else I need? This is my personal challenge that I really would like to master. CLs may suck, but I don't want to think that they can wup my a**!
Thanks! Jennifer"
If you have a lift, I cannot imagine that you would need jack stands. The lift should be much easier and safer than using jack stands. That will make things a little smoother for sure. And don't worry, I made this sound miserable I know. But things are usually tough (for me anyway) the first go round. Do it once (and with the help of the good folks on this thread), work out the kinks and I you'll be fine going forward. (still might be wishing we had 5 lugs, but at least we can say we are capable of changing the centerlocks). We can't all have a pit crew like ipse dixit....!
Thanks! Jennifer"
If you have a lift, I cannot imagine that you would need jack stands. The lift should be much easier and safer than using jack stands. That will make things a little smoother for sure. And don't worry, I made this sound miserable I know. But things are usually tough (for me anyway) the first go round. Do it once (and with the help of the good folks on this thread), work out the kinks and I you'll be fine going forward. (still might be wishing we had 5 lugs, but at least we can say we are capable of changing the centerlocks). We can't all have a pit crew like ipse dixit....!
01-26-2018, 12:17 AM
#78
Rennlist Member
Now now, don't scare the poor fella. We change them all the time at the track in less than 20 minutes. Using a regular jack on the rear we lift the entire side of the car and change both tires at one time. Yes the Precision Instruments torque wrench can be big, but you can also use a torque multiplier if you really want (I don't but I know others that do and no issues). It's really not that complicated once you do it a couple times and especially when there are others around to lend a hand. At the track there's always lots of help and people that want to share there experience and knowledge. Yes regular bolts are easier but don't lets the CL's intimidate you. Watch some other guys change theirs and you'll see its not that bad.
01-26-2018, 12:21 AM
#79
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Agree- I regularly could change all 4 wheels at the track in about 15 to 20 minutes. You need all the right tools and practice- it's never as straightforward as five lugs, but not that bad. I use the torque multiplier which is a little less cumbersome than a big breaker bar.
01-26-2018, 12:40 AM
#80
GT3 player par excellence
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not trying to scare anyone. but ....
CL is not a big deal. i do them 2-3x per day every track weekend (usually 3 days in a row, about 40 days a year) in past. i can do them REALLY FAST and challenge just about anyone on speed of CL change.
but it's a pain.
1. if u are only greasing the conical surface, that's not enough. after 4-5x, u need to disassemble the nut and grease the surfaces.
2. while it's ok to jack the way u described, there's a risk. and we have had that happen a few times too many. come off track hot, need new tires... jack rear, one side comes up, try to untorque.. the expansion coefficient of the nut and the mating cone must be different as when it's really not, i will not budge. so you had to MUSCLE it.................. cluck, car fell off jack. dented sill.... i now have a special one off device to prevent that from happending, but even then, i now only touch CL when it's one a full lift or on four jack stands (big jack stands like AC or the giant one RL'ster used to sell here).and when you are torquing it back to 444 ft-lb, you can see the car moving around on your jack. and i use a very beefy jack, the giant AC hydralic floor jack not alum lwt stuff. it still moves.
3. it is not possible to change 4 wheel in 20 min by yourself. you need help. and as much as i love my fellow trackers, unless they really know what they are doing with CL's, i rather they dont help. so many things can go wrong if they dont know what they are doing. but if you had GOOD help, yes, it can be quick. i can come off track, new wheels on, and go right back out. that's 4 ppl on it ;-)
4 if you are 25 yo, it's not bad, if you are 40+, it gets kind of tiring... and i am more fit than just about most of the late 40's folks and i am getting tired.... when you are tired, you will EVENTUALLY make mistakes.
in a control environment taking your time, it's easy after a few times. my gripe is sh*t happens when you are rushed. and on a track day, you are always rushed. maybe i m abnormal but i had CL fall off on cars in front of me. i had CL wheels fall off on cars behind me and even next to me. luckily none hit me. but the one that came off the car in front came really close.....
key is know the "steps"
dont skip "steps"
tick off the "list"
then you will be fine.
CL is not a big deal. i do them 2-3x per day every track weekend (usually 3 days in a row, about 40 days a year) in past. i can do them REALLY FAST and challenge just about anyone on speed of CL change.
but it's a pain.
1. if u are only greasing the conical surface, that's not enough. after 4-5x, u need to disassemble the nut and grease the surfaces.
2. while it's ok to jack the way u described, there's a risk. and we have had that happen a few times too many. come off track hot, need new tires... jack rear, one side comes up, try to untorque.. the expansion coefficient of the nut and the mating cone must be different as when it's really not, i will not budge. so you had to MUSCLE it.................. cluck, car fell off jack. dented sill.... i now have a special one off device to prevent that from happending, but even then, i now only touch CL when it's one a full lift or on four jack stands (big jack stands like AC or the giant one RL'ster used to sell here).and when you are torquing it back to 444 ft-lb, you can see the car moving around on your jack. and i use a very beefy jack, the giant AC hydralic floor jack not alum lwt stuff. it still moves.
3. it is not possible to change 4 wheel in 20 min by yourself. you need help. and as much as i love my fellow trackers, unless they really know what they are doing with CL's, i rather they dont help. so many things can go wrong if they dont know what they are doing. but if you had GOOD help, yes, it can be quick. i can come off track, new wheels on, and go right back out. that's 4 ppl on it ;-)
4 if you are 25 yo, it's not bad, if you are 40+, it gets kind of tiring... and i am more fit than just about most of the late 40's folks and i am getting tired.... when you are tired, you will EVENTUALLY make mistakes.
in a control environment taking your time, it's easy after a few times. my gripe is sh*t happens when you are rushed. and on a track day, you are always rushed. maybe i m abnormal but i had CL fall off on cars in front of me. i had CL wheels fall off on cars behind me and even next to me. luckily none hit me. but the one that came off the car in front came really close.....
key is know the "steps"
dont skip "steps"
tick off the "list"
then you will be fine.
01-26-2018, 12:45 AM
#81
Race Director
i really like the look and design of those jackpoint jackstands. But they are still out of stock. I bought some rennstands from safe jack. They work fine but I think the jackpoiint stands would work better. Especially the jack plate. It looks like the jack plate on the jackpoints have a nipple that inserts into the gap in the jackpoints under the car. Is that right? My rennstands have a slick, fairly flat jackplate. And they tend to slide a bit, especially on the lift pucks, and are hard to line up. Probably not a huge deal. But I’d prefer the additional stability.
If you have a lift, I cannot imagine that you would need jack stands. The lift should be much easier and safer than using jack stands. That will make things a little smoother for sure. And don't worry, I made this sound miserable I know. But things are usually tough (for me anyway) the first go round. Do it once (and with the help of the good folks on this thread), work out the kinks and I you'll be fine going forward. (still might be wishing we had 5 lugs, but at least we can say we are capable of changing the centerlocks). We can't all have a pit crew like ipse dixit....!
Last edited by Mike in CA; 01-26-2018 at 02:58 PM.
01-26-2018, 12:45 AM
#82
GT3 player par excellence
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haha, no way!.....I tell myself I leave the grease on them since they match the forgelines better now.
In all seriousness, I keep two sockets, one on a dedicated torque wrench, and one on a breaker, and I found its faster to tighten to spec/loosen/re-tighten in this method as opposed to flipping the head of the torque wrench per the wrench manual. Also, I have a derlin tool that is for the center lock itself.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Center-Lock...1UEgKQ&vxp=mtr
Oh, and get the derlin wheel alligner that the RL member makes, its a life saver!
In all seriousness, I keep two sockets, one on a dedicated torque wrench, and one on a breaker, and I found its faster to tighten to spec/loosen/re-tighten in this method as opposed to flipping the head of the torque wrench per the wrench manual. Also, I have a derlin tool that is for the center lock itself.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Center-Lock...1UEgKQ&vxp=mtr
Oh, and get the derlin wheel alligner that the RL member makes, its a life saver!
you do. two sockets
i actaully use THREE.
one on breaker bar to break tq
one on tq wrech to tighten it
one in my hand... when i put the nut back on, you can spin it freeely with hand. then it clicks, as the locking mechanism hooks up. at that ppoint you cannot freely turn it anymore, you need the socket, but the nut is still too loose at this point and if you use the socket attached to breaker bar or wrench , it's very unwieldy, so i just hold the 3rd socket in hand and tighten the nut as tight as i can THEN use the tq wrench... YES I AM CRAZY.
01-26-2018, 12:52 AM
#83
01-26-2018, 12:55 AM
#84
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
LOL i tell ppl that, they dont "get it"
you do. two sockets
i actaully use THREE.
one on breaker bar to break tq
one on tq wrech to tighten it
one in my hand... when i put the nut back on, you can spin it freeely with hand. then it clicks, as the locking mechanism hooks up. at that ppoint you cannot freely turn it anymore, you need the socket, but the nut is still too loose at this point and if you use the socket attached to breaker bar or wrench , it's very unwieldy, so i just hold the 3rd socket in hand and tighten the nut as tight as i can THEN use the tq wrench... YES I AM CRAZY.
you do. two sockets
i actaully use THREE.
one on breaker bar to break tq
one on tq wrech to tighten it
one in my hand... when i put the nut back on, you can spin it freeely with hand. then it clicks, as the locking mechanism hooks up. at that ppoint you cannot freely turn it anymore, you need the socket, but the nut is still too loose at this point and if you use the socket attached to breaker bar or wrench , it's very unwieldy, so i just hold the 3rd socket in hand and tighten the nut as tight as i can THEN use the tq wrench... YES I AM CRAZY.
01-26-2018, 02:47 AM
#85
Rennlist Member
Montoya, when you swap at the track, do you jack up the entire car and do all 4 wheels, or do you jack up rear and do both rear and then jack up front? I know porsche recommends only swapping with the entire car lifted. But, that seems to be a bit more cumbersome while at the track.....
This is crappy video but it shows how the torque multiplier works. In real application your wheel is lifted up on a jack.
not trying to scare anyone. but ....
CL is not a big deal. i do them 2-3x per day every track weekend (usually 3 days in a row, about 40 days a year) in past. i can do them REALLY FAST and challenge just about anyone on speed of CL change.
but it's a pain.
1. if u are only greasing the conical surface, that's not enough. after 4-5x, u need to disassemble the nut and grease the surfaces.
2. while it's ok to jack the way u described, there's a risk. and we have had that happen a few times too many. come off track hot, need new tires... jack rear, one side comes up, try to untorque.. the expansion coefficient of the nut and the mating cone must be different as when it's really not, i will not budge. so you had to MUSCLE it.................. cluck, car fell off jack. dented sill.... i now have a special one off device to prevent that from happending, but even then, i now only touch CL when it's one a full lift or on four jack stands (big jack stands like AC or the giant one RL'ster used to sell here).and when you are torquing it back to 444 ft-lb, you can see the car moving around on your jack. and i use a very beefy jack, the giant AC hydralic floor jack not alum lwt stuff. it still moves.
3. it is not possible to change 4 wheel in 20 min by yourself. you need help. and as much as i love my fellow trackers, unless they really know what they are doing with CL's, i rather they dont help. so many things can go wrong if they dont know what they are doing. but if you had GOOD help, yes, it can be quick. i can come off track, new wheels on, and go right back out. that's 4 ppl on it ;-)
4 if you are 25 yo, it's not bad, if you are 40+, it gets kind of tiring... and i am more fit than just about most of the late 40's folks and i am getting tired.... when you are tired, you will EVENTUALLY make mistakes.
in a control environment taking your time, it's easy after a few times. my gripe is sh*t happens when you are rushed. and on a track day, you are always rushed. maybe i m abnormal but i had CL fall off on cars in front of me. i had CL wheels fall off on cars behind me and even next to me. luckily none hit me. but the one that came off the car in front came really close.....
key is know the "steps"
dont skip "steps"
tick off the "list"
then you will be fine.
CL is not a big deal. i do them 2-3x per day every track weekend (usually 3 days in a row, about 40 days a year) in past. i can do them REALLY FAST and challenge just about anyone on speed of CL change.
but it's a pain.
1. if u are only greasing the conical surface, that's not enough. after 4-5x, u need to disassemble the nut and grease the surfaces.
2. while it's ok to jack the way u described, there's a risk. and we have had that happen a few times too many. come off track hot, need new tires... jack rear, one side comes up, try to untorque.. the expansion coefficient of the nut and the mating cone must be different as when it's really not, i will not budge. so you had to MUSCLE it.................. cluck, car fell off jack. dented sill.... i now have a special one off device to prevent that from happending, but even then, i now only touch CL when it's one a full lift or on four jack stands (big jack stands like AC or the giant one RL'ster used to sell here).and when you are torquing it back to 444 ft-lb, you can see the car moving around on your jack. and i use a very beefy jack, the giant AC hydralic floor jack not alum lwt stuff. it still moves.
3. it is not possible to change 4 wheel in 20 min by yourself. you need help. and as much as i love my fellow trackers, unless they really know what they are doing with CL's, i rather they dont help. so many things can go wrong if they dont know what they are doing. but if you had GOOD help, yes, it can be quick. i can come off track, new wheels on, and go right back out. that's 4 ppl on it ;-)
4 if you are 25 yo, it's not bad, if you are 40+, it gets kind of tiring... and i am more fit than just about most of the late 40's folks and i am getting tired.... when you are tired, you will EVENTUALLY make mistakes.
in a control environment taking your time, it's easy after a few times. my gripe is sh*t happens when you are rushed. and on a track day, you are always rushed. maybe i m abnormal but i had CL fall off on cars in front of me. i had CL wheels fall off on cars behind me and even next to me. luckily none hit me. but the one that came off the car in front came really close.....
key is know the "steps"
dont skip "steps"
tick off the "list"
then you will be fine.
01-26-2018, 10:25 AM
#86
Of course, with 5-lug wheels, if you get rushed and forget one entire lug nut, it's probably no big deal.
With the CL wheels, if you mess up one of the many steps, the wheel can fall off.
Other than that, they are a wonderful invention.
With the CL wheels, if you mess up one of the many steps, the wheel can fall off.
Other than that, they are a wonderful invention.
01-26-2018, 04:02 PM
#90
Has anyone got some ideas on what’s gone wrong to have a wheel come off?
I know the steps involve tightening and then loosening and then tightening again. Do people skip that and have them come off?
Is it something else?
I know the steps involve tightening and then loosening and then tightening again. Do people skip that and have them come off?
Is it something else?